Pacing felt a bit off, and animation looked slightly inconsistent. That, and the uncomfortable feeling I got with all the Mikuru-bullying...
It may be kind of weird that I thoroughly enjoyed the boob-grabbing scene in episode 2, but the abuse Mikuru went through here just made me feel sorry for her. Maybe the BGM had something to do with it (sad music compared to silly percussion).
(... for some reason whenever I try to use apostrophes or slashes in this post, Firefox acts up. Not sure why.)
I felt severe unease watching this episode, so I'll join dkellis on the side of the twisted people. I laughed out loud and thought the second ep's groping was hilaaaaarious, but it was hard to enjoy it in ep three.
It's starting to dawn on me just how cut off Haruhi is from reality. I really need the rest of the show + major thinking + help, in order to be able to rewatch it in the right mindset, where I stop thinking of it as comedy. I'm sure it's just fabulous if you've read the novels. :/
Haruhi is so cut off from reality, making whatever she does all the more real... I was disturbed with the PC acquisition thing. That is ruthlessness in its true form in some ways. Her extreme actions exceed any other anime characters in 2k6 (a formidable match to Haruko, FLCL), the animation so fluid that it is OVA+ level, the dialogues so natural that it feels as if it is live...
Haruhi wins... while making enemies out of everywhere all the way.
Considering some of the things that Haruhi plans to say if the Computer society club doesn't cave in to her demand, I can't help but feeling sorry for Mikuru either. I hope Kyon will have more success in helping Mikuru in the future but it's hard to see what he can do.
I thought I'd put in a tiny novel vs anime question here, which isn't really a spoiler or anything, just being nice in case someone here would take offense to such a harmless and pleasantly asked question:
Spoiler:
Why did they make Haruhi take the photos? In the novel it's Kyon doing the clickety stuff, which takes part of the blame off Haruhi, making her slightly less evil. Oh well, at least they eased it a bit by removing the part where the club president tells her how they had to pay for the computers with their own money.
I don't really read the novels, just needed the kanji on paper to be able to figure out WTF was going on at times.
I thought I'd put in a tiny novel vs anime question here, which isn't really a spoiler or anything, just being nice in case someone here would take offense to such harmless and pleasantly asked question:
Spoiler:
Why did they make Haruhi take the photos? In the novel it's Kyon doing the clickety stuff, which takes part of the blame off Haruhi, making her slightly less evil. Oh well, at least they eased it a bit by removing the part where the club president tells her how they had to pay for the computers with their own money.
I don't really read the novels, just needed the kanji on paper to be able to figure out WTF was going on at times.
I don't think it really matters either way. I think having Kyon take the pictures would actually make Haruhi worse since she's ordering someone to do her dirty work.
Oh, but for those of you worried about Mikuru's chastity at this rate, don't worry, this is probably about as worse as it gets. Haruhi's "the-world-revolves-around-me" attitude remains constant though. (An example: Haruhi thinks crabs should have shells that are edible too so that she can eat them more easily, and blames the crabs for not learning anything through evolution)
Oh, but for those of you worried about Mikuru's chastity at this rate, don't worry, this is probably about as worse as it gets. Haruhi's "the-world-revolves-around-me" attitude remains constant though. (An example: Haruhi thinks crabs should have shells that are edible too so that she can eat them more easily, and blames the crabs for not learning anything through evolution)
I agree with her on the crabs. Thats why I mostly eat crabs that are in the middle of molting and the shells are soft Damn I am getting ngrey.
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y
I don't think it really matters either way. I think having Kyon take the pictures would actually make Haruhi worse since she's ordering someone to do her dirty work.
Nah it just wouldn't be the same without her doing it. Can you imagine the scene with Kyon doing it? I would agree with just having Haruhi because that's just so her.
Quote:
(An example: Haruhi thinks crabs should have shells that are edible too so that she can eat them more easily,
Reminds me of that Dilbert episode where the "boss" complained about eating clams and how after going through a dozen of them he gets exhausted to the point he then realizes after being questioned that clams have "shells"
Quote:
and blames the crabs for not learning anything through evolution
That would go against everything evolution stands for
Though I must admit, Haruhi is the most unethical character I've ever seen in such unusual fashion. Episode 2, holy crap, she's like the combination of all the worst and evil minds in the world mixed into an innocent-looking girl who has no boundaries or limits
That's actually quite an important clue. Since Haruhi called the Taikutsu episode "episode 7", that hints at the possibility that Yuutsu (volume 1) will actually take 6 episodes to finish (makes sense page wise). So it's likely what they're doing is sliding in events from the later volumes to "space out" the "major" events that's going to happen in the latter parts of volume 1.
Maybe something like:
Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu I
Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu II
Suzumiya Haruhi no Taikutsu
Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu III ?
holy crap, she's like the combination of all the worst and evil minds in the world mixed into an innocent-looking girl who has no boundaries or limits
You may say that, but Haruhi is not evil, in traditional sense. More like rampant disregard of other's well being .
Actually that's not exactly right.
Spoiler for minor-medium:
She backed off multiple times in various parts of the series when Kyon seriously confronts/reasons her on multiple occasions.
Spoiler for heavy-novel oriented:
For example, in the next episode (4 or 7, who cares), Kyon put a stop to Haruhi's rampage through the minor league.
Or the Itsuki's mansion scene where Kyon put a stop to Haruhi's filming because Mikuru is closed to her limit (after falling into the pond).
Or how Kyon forced Haruhi to put in the disclaimers at the end of the film. The disclaimer was NOT for parody.
You may even argue that, without Kyon, the world would be destroyed long before the animation starts. But that's another story.
As the story goes on, you will see different side of Haruhi. Some are nice, some are funny, one or two even made me go "wow I never knew she is like that inside her mind". The story needs time to develope its characters.
There is a method in her madness. More than method, actually. She is a very rounded character.
If I have to complain, I would complain about Mikuru. She gets the short end of the stick in terms of character developement. Therefore out of the four primary supportive characters, I like her the least.
Spoiler for very minor:
Not that she doesn't have any developement, but *cut off for viewers' sake*
Spoiler for speculation for other novel readers:
Now that I think about it, when Mikuru said "It seems that in this space time plane, this is imminent", does she mean
Spoiler:
Going through the humiliations
or
Spoiler:
Falling in love with Kyon due to his, ahem, kindheartedness?
Those aside, the pacing of this episode left much to desire. Animation is still top-notch, but the pacing....
To Sushi-
Spoiler for very heavy, novel oriented:
I think what Mikuru is about to experience in 2nd volume is going to be much more torturing, both mentally and physically, to her.
Spoiler:
Humiliations aside.
Imagine your body structure gets modified regularly by someone's will just because that someone wants your eyes to emit photon/neutron/whatever he/she thinks up to film a slapstick movie. And the only way to cure that each time is to let an mysterious alien that is magnitude more advance than you can ever understand to inject some god-knows-what nanoparticles into you. All the while you might kill the person you treasure most. The worst thing is you can't say NO, STOP IT! I HAVE ENOUGH to the person or else you risk the destruction of this and your own worlds.
Talk about suckage. No wonder she cried horrible during one of the filming scene.
But Kyon was there with her. I guess that's what pulled her though.
__________________
Last edited by Thelastguardian; 2006-04-18 at 01:18.
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
Quote:
You may say that, but Haruhi is not evil, in traditional sense. More like rampant disregard of other's well being .
Actually that's not exactly right.
That's the problem, when I commented that I wasn't sure how to explain the other part where she's not evil because simply she's not. She's not out to harm or kill anyone of that matter. It's all about fun.
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
You'd have to define Haruhi as "innocent" as in the pure definition of the word: uncomprehending of the impact of actions. Innocent beings pull the wings off of flies out of curiousity or push The Shiny Red Button to see what happens.
I don't think she's that extreme but she just assumes that everyone else sees the natural need for certain things to happen the way she does.
edit: hmmm, I've worked with Asperger syndrome teens ... and Haruhi doesn't qualify, at least not any more than marginal. She has full emotional spectrum, doesn't talk "that way" --- she just assumes everyone else wants to have fun, too. She thinks Mikuru is having fun.... Asperger types are really hard to be around --- you know.. the guy in the back of the hobby store that is shouting in a monotone and quoting from page 223 of the D&D manual closed in front of him.
I would kind of agree with the other comments on the pacing, which though not bad was slightly 'off' compared to the even wham-wham-wham staccato of episode 2. But thats more because of them having to start bringing in the more 'serious' parts of the novels which are slower than the comedy parts.
About Mikuru-bullying...
1. Kyon's involvement: Actually I disagree that having Kyon take the pictures makes Haruhi even more to blame. If Kyon does take the pictures (like in the novel) it makes him complicit in whatever Haruhi does, whether or not Haruhi did order him to do it or not. In fact, there are many times I spotted in the novels when Kyon could have said something about Haruhi's forcing Mikuru to cosplay but didn't because to some extent he enjoyed seeing Mikuru cosplaying even though Mikuru obviously did not like it. I don't think Kyon's complicity in whatever Haruhi does, no matter how much he insists 'it has nothing to do with me', can be ignored.
Spoiler for ethical example which may offend people:
Using a very bad and very inflammatory example (I apologize in advance for this *bows*) ignoring Kyon's complicity in following Haruhi's blackmail orders in the novel would be like ignoring the complicity of say the ordinary Germans who followed Hitler's orders during the Holocaust knowing it was wrong but feeling themselves forced by circumstance. This is not to say that Kyon/the ordinary Germans are as guilty but they are still to a degree complicit in the 'wrong-ness' when they followed the orders.
Again I am sorry for the example but I could not think of a less inflammatory example at the present moment (it's late). I hope people will not be offended by its usage as it was merely meant as an example in an ethical discussion.
2. Frankly the 'computer blackmail' scene isn't that disturbing in the anime or in the novel for me. I couldn't help but laugh. Though of course they are 'cruel', I found most of the Mikuru-bullying scenes funny in the black humor type way but it's actually another Mikuru-bullying scene in the 2nd novel that left me with a bad taste in my mouth and really soured my enjoyment of Haruhi.
Spoiler for 2nd novel spoilers:
When Haruhi whacks Mikuru on the back of her neck so that her contacts will 'pop out' and Kyon stops her saying, "Mikuru isn't your toy!", Haruhi responds, "I've decided that Mikuru-chan is my toy!!" Kyon grips his fist and was only stopped from punching Haruhi by Itsuki.
I did not expect the her to actually use words like that and I found myself wanting Kyon to punch her.
__________________
"Every man has two countries, his own and France" - Attributed to Thomas Jefferson
I can't believe they leave that cliffhanger out in the opening though XD
I would have thought that the studio would finish that part and leave the fans discussing the impact and what this symbolizes for the week to come. Pity.
Quote:
Spoiler for 2nd novel spoilers:
I did not expect the her to actually use words like that and I found myself wanting Kyon to punch her.
Spoiler:
Me second. At first anyway.
After I gave it some thought, however, I realized that Haruhi meant no harm.
First of all, I bet if she can, she will do Mikuru's role. She doesn't mind, eh, getting groped for blackmail purpose, wearing sexy bunnies cos, be the epitome (or pinnacle) of weirdness etc. . She just assumes that Mikuru(and everyone else) is the same as her. Therefore she thought Mikuru has no problem with those "accidents".
Furthermore, perhaps Haruhi said that because she is jealous of Mikuru.
If you read the novel, you will see that Kyon really cares for Mikuru. And it shows. Thus it is reasonable deduction that Haruhi became subconsciously jealous of Mikuru. Thus the abuses, or that idiotic line to make Kyon mad, or both.
Finally, one must note that it was Kyon who originally made Haruhi to act so hyperly. She must had been shock when Kyon told her to stuff it.
Because there are so many ways I can interpret Haruhi actions, I became fascinated with her character. The author used many devices, obvious and hidden, to illustrate her character. Add this to the different sides of her personality. I became fascinated with her character and, the rest is history .
__________________
Last edited by Thelastguardian; 2006-04-18 at 01:17.
After I gave it some thought, however, I realized that Haruhi meant no harm.
First of all, I bet if she can, she will do Mikuru's role. She doesn't mind, eh, getting groped for blackmail purpose, wearing sexy bunnies cos, be the epitome (or pinnacle) of weirdness etc. . She just assumes that Mikuru(and everyone else) is the same as her. Therefore she thought Mikuru has no problem with those "accidents".
Furthermore, perhaps Haruhi said that because she is jealous of Mikuru.
If you read the novel, you will see that Kyon really cares for Mikuru. And it shows. Thus it is reasonable deduction that Haruhi became subconsciously jealous of Mikuru. Thus the abuses, or that idiotic line to make Kyon mad, or both.
Finally, one must note that it was Kyon who originally made Haruhi to act so hyperly. She must had been shock when Kyon told her to stuff it.
Because there are so many ways I can interpret Haruhi actions, I became fascinated with her character. The author used many devices, obvious and hidden, to illustrates her character. Add this to different sides of her personality. I became fascinated with her character and, the rest is history .
Spoiler:
Haruhi's unconscious jealousness was also something I noted many times and yea I did think that the partial reason for Mikuru-bullying is related to that. Haruhi has shown herself immensely perceptive/sensitive whenever it comes to Kyon and his 'roving eyes', even if its not apparent to either Kyon (nor even Haruhi herself).
If it mitigates it any I only read that part which bothered me last night at the tail-end of my novel-reading time just before I went to bed and today was a busy day so I haven't had much time to think about the reasons/possible interpretations of that one. A big gently smiling Haruhi still graces my desktop and will continue to do so for a long time. Its just the sudden impact of those words didn't agree with me, just like for others it was the Mikuru-blackmail.
Haruhi is a very controversial character in that sense but it is precisely that which makes her the interesting and fascinating character like you say. As a 'character type' I think Haruhi is quite unique. Earlier some posters (Sushi-Y was it? I don't remember ) have tried to fit her into the tsundere type but they admit its hard to do so. Haruhi really isn't a traditional tsundere-ko in any sense. I remember the short article at the back of the 1st novel about how it won the prize referring to Haruhi as an 'unprecedented character' which I find is really apt.
Edit: About Asperger:
I didn't know anything about it until I googled it after reading it here but one thing particularly caught my mind:
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/
Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness.
That's definitely not Haruhi. She abhors sameness and is all about change and loves things different from the routine.
__________________
"Every man has two countries, his own and France" - Attributed to Thomas Jefferson
Haruhi is a modern interpretation of a classical Greek hero(ine) if we think about it. Luckily the take's not Shakesphereian since her greatest strength would be the perfect downfall. After thinking of Haruhi outside of anime context, I find her to be most befitting of the epic heroes.
Much like the flawed deities, Haruhi's personality is not taken out from straight cookie cutter. Her obsession and that undying thirst for change exceeds all else and it manifests itself in the display of her everyday antics, her mental states and
Spoiler:
her 'divine' power.
That creativity which rivals that of Prometheus proves itself to be as horrifying as the gift of fire was to the gods (look at where the Greek gods are today?)
Kyon is unique in his role as not mere narriator but the bridge to observe the kind of 'madness' that is Haruhi. Haruhi, ever so curious of it all, becomes so destructive to the surrounding (as humanity is) as she refuses to conform and instead confronts/alters the very nature (again, humanity). Justifying means with ends, she relentlessly pushes her agenda of countering boredom. (Sounds almost hedonist utilitarian)
Haruhi becomes fascinating to me because... to me she embodies humanity. Ever so curious, ever so eager to play with fire, ever so headstrong, so proud, so uncompromising, maybe even nearsighted that she... we human... become monsters... freaks of nature in retrospect.
Spoiler:
Maybe, that is why humanity has yet to realize its powers just as Haruhi remains oblivious towards her abhored abilities. What a storm in a teacup.
Kyon does not shy in being the one that has the power to present and subsequently interpret the acts of the heroes... in some ways putting things into stone. He carries the weight of commentator which is from nearly of no significence to being the key influence with our conclusion on what we've been given. That in itself proves to be an interesting power... think of the power that Homer and all subsequent scribes and monks have had just in transcribing/retelling oral epics into how we know of them today.
Kyon's ventage point in observing Haruhi and the SOS is omnipresent in some ways. His narriation at time levitates him from the scene as he speaks directly to the audience and his access to all the actors seemingly fits everything into an acrylic case, just as Plutarch and his imitators have had the advantage of time as their mean of being omnipresent in their story retellings.
The strength in a pen or narriation though is relative (Leon Trotsky and an ice dagger illustrates that pretty clearly...) and it shows in Kyon's involvement. Funny in some ways and all too real as well >.< (though a bit bloody an illustration). I am liking him more and more as Haruhi progresses.
Spoiler:
(I thought about Mikuru using this starting point and what melange said and I feel strangely horrible over what I deduced about her. I guess this is becoming outside the bounds of ep3 so yea...)
A chill goes through my spine actually thinking of complicity as mentioned above as well as end justify the means as melange describes above. I don't have a coherent point to make yet but I am unsettled.
Haruhi is a modern interpretation of a classical Greek hero(ine) if we think about it. *snip*
and it shows in Kyon's involvement. Funny in some ways and all too real as well >.<
Nice. It seems that you've managed to pin down Haruhi's (and Kyon's) archetype
Spoiler for discussion on Haruhi's nature:
The flawed god/kami seems to fit Haruhi nicely and would jive well with Japanese mythology. Your mention of 'storm in a teacup' brings Susanoo the thunder god to mind. Wild and impulsive he frequently broke all the rules and was pretty much self-centered (at least in his youth), in a sense reminiscent of Haruhi.
Yet it seems that on the face of Itsuki's ramblings he defines a god as a 'creator' who exists outside of creation, away from the kami who are gods who can exist within creation, and argues that his personal opinion is that Haruhi is not a god but 'god-chosen' (I am guessing this whats referred to in the scene of Haruhi looking up at the night sky in the opening). Whether or not this is the author's definition of 'god' or not is uncertain and it is very probable that its just more 'denpa' talk he threw in to complicate matters/make things more interesting.
It seems evident that the more 'denpa' talk we get from Itsuki et. al. the more philosophical/speculative the discussions on Haruhi's nature can get. As such I'm beginning to wonder whether a separate thread for speculations such as these should be created as it definitely doesn't fit an episode discussion thread nor does it really fit the series prediction thread where similar stuff was brought up...
__________________
"Every man has two countries, his own and France" - Attributed to Thomas Jefferson
Now that I think about it, when Mikuru said "It seems that in this space time plane, this is imminent", does she mean
Spoiler:
Going through the humiliations
or
Spoiler:
Falling in love with Kyon due to his, ahem, kindheartedness?
You mean her line "おそらく、これがこの時間平面上の必然なのでしょうね" after the computer "acquisition" scene? I'd write that as "Most likely, this is an inevitability of this time plane, isn't it?" but anyway, I think she's just referring to the treatment that she was just subjected to, not about Kyon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelastguardian
To Sushi-
Spoiler for very heavy, novel oriented:
I think what Mikuru is about to experience in 2nd volume is going to be much more torturing, both mentally and physically, to her.
Spoiler:
Humiliations aside.
Imagine your body structure gets modified regularly by someone's will just because that someone wants your eyes to emit photon/neutron/whatever he/she thinks up to film a slapstick movie. And the only way to cure that each time is to let an mysterious alien that is magnitude more advance than you can ever understand to inject some god-knows-what nanoparticles into you. All the while you might kill the person you treasure most. The worst thing is you can't say NO, STOP IT! I HAVE ENOUGH to the person or else you risk the destruction of this and your own worlds.
Talk about suckage. No wonder she cried horrible during one of the filming scene.
But Kyon was there with her. I guess that's what pulled her though.
That's true, although Haruhi's treatment of Mikuru in this episode was mean, it was still within the "can be laughed off as a joke" level. Some of the things Haruhi did in volume 2, on the other hand, really begins to push against that "funny/not funny" borderline (although she didn't really mean it). But then again, it all adds to the realism of Haruhi's character, don't you think? Haruhi's not Haruhi unless she's always dashing ahead at full-speed, ignoring all traffic signs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melange
Spoiler for 2nd novel spoilers:
When Haruhi whacks Mikuru on the back of her neck so that her contacts will 'pop out' and Kyon stops her saying, "Mikuru isn't your toy!", Haruhi responds, "I've decided that Mikuru-chan is my toy!!" Kyon grips his fist and was only stopped from punching Haruhi by Itsuki.
I did not expect the her to actually use words like that and I found myself wanting Kyon to punch her.
Haruhi didn't mean it, of course. Remember, although Haruhi may appear like she's always doing things by her own methods, she's actually a perfectly logical person inside. What makes Haruhi unique is her ability to totally ignore those logics.
Spoiler for volume 2 scene:
As for reason for the irrisponsible outburst, just like Koizumi told Kyon later, Haruhi wasn't angry because her authority was being challenged, she was angry because she was disappointed, because she believed that Kyon would always be there to support her, that he would be the last person in the world to betray her. And we know that when people feel betrayed, they often let their emotions get the better of them (especially for the impulsive types, like Haruhi). So an irrisponsible comment or two under that condition shouldn't be surprising.
Of course, we don't even know if the anime would even bother to go back to volume 2 again, so maybe we won't get to see that scene at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melange
Spoiler:
Haruhi's unconscious jealousness was also something I noted many times and yea I did think that the partial reason for Mikuru-bullying is related to that. Haruhi has shown herself immensely perceptive/sensitive whenever it comes to Kyon and his 'roving eyes', even if its not apparent to either Kyon (nor even Haruhi herself).
Earlier some posters (Sushi-Y was it? I don't remember ) have tried to fit her into the tsundere type but they admit its hard to do so. Haruhi really isn't a traditional tsundere-ko in any sense.
That's right, normal tsunderes have "tsun" and "dere" parts, but in Haruhi's case, it's more like "tsun" and "stealth dere". (That other scene you mentioned above there is a good example of Haruhi's "stealth dere")
Spoiler for Haruhi and Kyon's relationship:
Haruhi actually cares about Kyon more than anyone else. Although she pretends that his opinions mean nothing to her, every now and then, we can catch tiny glimpses here and there showing that she actually does care about Kyon's inputs a great deal, whether consciously or unconsciously. That's Haruhi's "stealth dere". In reverse, Kyon is the same too. He always complains and complains and complains about Haruhi, but deep inside, he really enjoys being with her. Volume 4 should demonstrate this quite well.
Either way, all of this makes Haruhi, and Kyon, even more attractive as characters, don't you think? ^^;
Ah, I should add something about this episode too. Er... um... ah...
Am I the only one who thinks Yuki's hands are very sexy? ^^;;
Author
Damn I am getting ngrey.
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