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Galaxian · 2014-03-02, 18:59

According to the movie staff, Seiya's cosmo at that point far surpassed Apollo, that why he didn't not wiped out humanity.

Kazu-kun · 2014-03-02, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxian

According to the movie staff, Seiya's cosmo at that point far surpassed Apollo, that why he didn't not wiped out humanity.

I'll take that as inconstancy, either by the staff or the presentation. It doesn't make sense otherwise.

Galaxian · 2014-03-02, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I'll take that as inconstancy, either by the staff or the presentation. It doesn't make sense otherwise.

Apollo wining would make less sense because that was the beginning of the fight against the Olympians.

Kazu-kun · 2014-03-02, 20:05

^ I'm not talking about that. Apollo "lost," but not because he was overpowered. He lost because Seiya proved his point. That's what make Apollo change his mind imo.

Galaxian · 2014-03-02, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

^ I'm not talking about that. Apollo "lost," but not because he was overpowered. He lost because Seiya proved his point. That's what make Apollo change his mind imo.

That wouldn't make Apollo change his mind. The whole reason why the god were going to destroy humanity was because they dare to stand up against them. Seiya being able to harm Apollo is his worst nightmares come to life. Apollo changing his mind because Seiya can hurt him would really make absolutely no sense.

Ozuma · 2014-03-02, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxian

It was a clash of cosmo, Seiya attacking and Apollo defending, and Seiya's won.

Besides, it had to happen. Overture was not suppose to be a stand-alone movie, it was the set up for the Heaven Chapters, so Apollo's plan had to fail.

If Toei wasn't so damn ridiculous with their decisions and conflicting with Kuramada we would've seen Overture be canon.

Galaxian · 2014-03-02, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozuma

If Toei wasn't so damn ridiculous with their decisions and conflicting with Kuramada we would've seen Overture be canon.

Though now that Kurumada is on his own, he gave us Next Dimension and the most constant factor of the series is how much it disappoints me.

And when Toei was left to their own device, they gave me Sagittarius Seiya, Aries Kiki, Shiryu's son, Yuna, and, but certainty not least, Harbinger.

Kazu-kun · 2014-03-02, 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxian

Seiya being able to harm Apollo is his worst nightmares come to life.

If that was the case, why doesn't he kill him? And don't tell me he can't, because it was obvious he could if he wanted to.

Galaxian · 2014-03-02, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

If that was the case, why doesn't he kill him? And don't tell me he can't, because it was obvious he could if he wanted to.

He can't kill him because Seiya became more powerful than him, that's they explanation that was given by the movie staff.

Ozuma · 2014-03-02, 21:05

@Galaxian

That makes sense.

I forgive Toei for Tenkai Overture Hen now seeing Saint Seiya Omega.

Kazu-kun · 2014-03-02, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxian

He can't kill him because Seiya became more powerful than him, that's they explanation that was given by the movie staff.

If Seiya was more powerful he wouldn't be able to erase his memories. Maybe Seiya was more powerful a that moment, but I seriously doubt he became more powerful over all. That's not what we see in the movie.

Goty · 2014-03-02, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxian

Though now that Kurumada is on his own, he gave us Next Dimension and the most constant factor of the series is how much it disappoints me.

I like to think Toei went with a different route in Overture because they understood how crappy Kurumada's ideas were.

Mad Pierrot · 2014-03-02, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goty

I like to think Toei went with a different route in Overture because they understood how crappy Kurumada's ideas were.

But Omega's producers listened to Kurumada's comments about Next Dimension before writing Seiya's Omega characterization.

Goty · 2014-03-02, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

But Omega's producers listened to Kurumada's comments about Next Dimension before writing Seiya's Omega characterization.

And why wouldn't they? Overture wasn't continued, anyway. At this point, that's what we're all stuck with.

Ozuma · 2014-03-03, 06:35

What Goty said.

Also there's a difference between having strength surpassing another and being able to withstand a mind-wipe from Apollo (like said god inflicted on Seiya and Saori). Look at it this way: even though Shaka was able to stop Shura, Camus and Saga in their tracks with Tenbu Horin in terms of brute force they had his number.

This is further proven in that there was nothing in his arsenal to counter the Athena Exclamation.

Obelisk ze Tormentor · 2014-03-03, 07:25

If the movie staff indeed intended to make Seiya overpowering Apollo, then why did they waste their effort in animation by making Seiya merely managed to scratch Apollo? Why they didn’t make Seiya able to fully smacked Apollo’s face? And don’t forget, it was Seiya’s mega-super-duper-powerful Final Punch. He swore he would punch Apollo in the face and used every single drop of his power on that fist of his, yet the result is a just one tiny scratch. So, were the staff drunk when they were making that scene?

The result on-screen is a total 180 to what the staff said in the commentary. Or maybe it’s the staff who did 180 to what they have done in the movie. I mean, an author/maker going 180 about their certain decisions on a work-of-art is not that unusual. Look at J.K. Rowling's latest sentiment toward Hermione's romance in HP

.

--------------------------------------
So, like Kazu-kun said, Seiya did not surpass Apollo’s overall power at all. Let’s apply a simple logic so that people can easily understand:

Seiya + cosmo burned to its utmost limit like never before + God Cloth + putting all his power in that one single final punch = one little tiny scratch on Apollo’s cheek

Apollo = overpowering Athena + blown away Seiya in his ultimate-cosmo state along with his God Cloth after Seiya scratched his face (and wiped both Athena & Seiya's mind afterwards).

Do the math, guys. You should know who’s overpowering who with that simple logic. Forget about all the meta-reasons (like what the anime staff said and planned) and judge the scene as it is. Use your own reasoning, not what the author/staff dictates.

Ozuma · 2014-03-03, 10:32

@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

Wow, dude did you skip over my post? Physical strength and mental strength are two different animals.

How is that concept hard to grasp? Even with all his strength Saga (one of the most powerful gold saints is at the mercy of his own split personality.

Galaxian · 2014-03-03, 10:34

Seiya in Elysium was already strong enough to harm a god, then during most of Overture his cosmo was nerfed because of Hades' curse, then when Athena lifts the curse, Seiya's cosmo started expanding, to the point that it even became stronger than Apollo. When Apollo realized that he could no longer take Seiya on in a direct fight, he went after his memories which is an indirect attack and, according to the staff, it still took all of Apollo's cosmo to accomplish, thus humanity was saved.

You have to remember, no matter how iconic RyuSeiKen is, it still Seiya's weakest attack, and even that managed to break through Apollo's defense and harm him, while Apollo could not physically hurt Seiya.

Ozuma · 2014-03-03, 11:43

@Galaxian

You should post a link regarding that explanation of Tenkai Hen Overture staff on Apollo's move of desperation to further convince 'em bro.

Something else to keep in mind guys, it's Pyrrhic victory if Appllo had to expel all that energy to win the fight.

nishikinomaki · 2014-03-03, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozuma

@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

Wow, dude did you skip over my post? Physical strength and mental strength are two different animals.

How is that concept hard to grasp? Even with all his strength Saga (one of the most powerful gold saints is at the mercy of his own split personality.

I think they talk about seiya and apollo power who really win ?

Wiki Said seiya not win he just punch little scratch in apollo face.

Apollo he was impressed By saori and seiya world why Seiya prove it to apollo humans has pride and love to protect. that why apollo stop wiped out all human.

Apollo very loyal to opponent and respect actually apollo is good person god.

there said about memory lose not officially true yet about erased memory last ending they meeting each other about saori and seiya oh god this movie make people confused there no explanation what happen to them ending.

Seiya has been long been coma that why he said in ending he first time being here in place that mean he not notice it when in coma very long time with wheelchairs.

Seiya not win against apollo officially.

Saori and seiya they memory not been erased about memory erased is not officially true. seiya has been long coma that why he said not know this place.

http://saintseiya.wikia.com/wiki/Apollo

2014-03-02, 20:05	Link #4064
Kazu-kun Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	^ I'm not talking about that. Apollo "lost," but not because he was overpowered. He lost because Seiya proved his point. That's what make Apollo change his mind imo. __________________

2014-03-03, 07:25	Link #4076
Obelisk ze Tormentor Black Steel Knight Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Indonesia	If the movie staff indeed intended to make Seiya overpowering Apollo, then why did they waste their effort in animation by making Seiya merely managed to scratch Apollo? Why they didn’t make Seiya able to fully smacked Apollo’s face? And don’t forget, it was Seiya’s mega-super-duper-powerful Final Punch. He swore he would punch Apollo in the face and used every single drop of his power on that fist of his, yet the result is a just one tiny scratch. So, were the staff drunk when they were making that scene? The result on-screen is a total 180 to what the staff said in the commentary. Or maybe it’s the staff who did 180 to what they have done in the movie. I mean, an author/maker going 180 about their certain decisions on a work-of-art is not that unusual. Look at J.K. Rowling's latest sentiment toward Hermione's romance in HP . -------------------------------------- So, like Kazu-kun said, Seiya did not surpass Apollo’s overall power at all. Let’s apply a simple logic so that people can easily understand: Seiya + cosmo burned to its utmost limit like never before + God Cloth + putting all his power in that one single final punch = one little tiny scratch on Apollo’s cheek Apollo = overpowering Athena + blown away Seiya in his ultimate-cosmo state along with his God Cloth after Seiya scratched his face (and wiped both Athena & Seiya's mind afterwards). Do the math, guys. You should know who’s overpowering who with that simple logic. Forget about all the meta-reasons (like what the anime staff said and planned) and judge the scene as it is. Use your own reasoning, not what the author/staff dictates. __________________

2014-03-02, 18:59	Link #4061
Galaxian Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013	According to the movie staff, Seiya's cosmo at that point far surpassed Apollo, that why he didn't not wiped out humanity.

2014-03-02, 21:05	Link #4070
Ozuma Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011	@Galaxian That makes sense. I forgive Toei for Tenkai Overture Hen now seeing Saint Seiya Omega.

2014-03-03, 06:35	Link #4075
Ozuma Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011	What Goty said. Also there's a difference between having strength surpassing another and being able to withstand a mind-wipe from Apollo (like said god inflicted on Seiya and Saori). Look at it this way: even though Shaka was able to stop Shura, Camus and Saga in their tracks with Tenbu Horin in terms of brute force they had his number. This is further proven in that there was nothing in his arsenal to counter the Athena Exclamation.

2014-03-03, 10:32	Link #4077
Ozuma Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011	@Obelisk Ze Tormentor Wow, dude did you skip over my post? Physical strength and mental strength are two different animals. How is that concept hard to grasp? Even with all his strength Saga (one of the most powerful gold saints is at the mercy of his own split personality.

2014-03-03, 10:34	Link #4078
Galaxian Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013	Seiya in Elysium was already strong enough to harm a god, then during most of Overture his cosmo was nerfed because of Hades' curse, then when Athena lifts the curse, Seiya's cosmo started expanding, to the point that it even became stronger than Apollo. When Apollo realized that he could no longer take Seiya on in a direct fight, he went after his memories which is an indirect attack and, according to the staff, it still took all of Apollo's cosmo to accomplish, thus humanity was saved. You have to remember, no matter how iconic RyuSeiKen is, it still Seiya's weakest attack, and even that managed to break through Apollo's defense and harm him, while Apollo could not physically hurt Seiya.

2014-03-03, 11:43	Link #4079
Ozuma Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011	@Galaxian You should post a link regarding that explanation of Tenkai Hen Overture staff on Apollo's move of desperation to further convince 'em bro. Something else to keep in mind guys, it's Pyrrhic victory if Appllo had to expel all that energy to win the fight.