AnimeSuki Forums

ZeKeR · 2010-12-29, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

With a 7.62mm rifle, is there really a pressing need for higher automatic fire? My understanding was that even with M16's/M4's they ussually went single shot in most situations. A 7.62 would be even harder to control.

try firing the FN FAL and original M14 in FULL AUTO if you want to experience high intensity automatic fire with a 7.62x51. i did, and boy it hurts like hell...
for the g3, it really is slow firing for me... but i think its for the best... lest the gun becomes like the FAL...

Lost Cause · 2010-12-30, 01:20

Actually the point I was getting at was by using said .30 caliber rifles that they would require less bullets on target to get the desired effect. I.E. Less shots to stop the threat or humanely take game!
Wouldn't one of the old bolt action rifles of WW1 or WW2 be just as effective as one of these hi-capacity wonder guns putting a gob of lead out?

Renegade334 · 2010-12-31, 16:32

A few pics from the AUSA'10 convention (pass if uninterested by military tech):

Spoiler:

XM2010 ESR - a .300 Winchester evolution of the M40A1/A3 sniper rifle, gone all skeletal and more or less following the M14/DMR-->M39 EMR trend. Gone is the wood and glass fiber, replaced by polymer and aluminum (protected by a chemical anticorrosive coating), to provide better resilience in low-temperature environments. It is equipped with a Leupold Mk4 6x20, featuring a stadimetric reticle. Fed by a 5-round mag, it comes equipped with a sound moderator and a skeletal, folding stock.

Barrett M107A1 - the next M82/M107 build, with a slightly smaller weight (13.3kg) and a revised flash hider (replaced by a four-chamber model).

The Barrett MRAD, a .338 Lapua version of the Barrett M82/M107 that features a few sets of improvement over its predecessors - most notably the fact that it only weighs 6.7kg, boasts a folding skeleton stock (complete with adjustable cheek guard) to reduce its length and thus facilitate transport. The only possible technical throwback is that the MRAD discarded the automatic loading principle for the traditional bolt action...which can be pulled back thanks to a large lever specially designed for shooters wearing thick gloves in winter. The butt stock plate is in sorbothane, a shock-absorbent material. The fluted barrel allows better heat dissipation and can be augmented with a Barrett-designed sound moderator.

I wonder, has anyone fired heavy-caliber rifles, here? .50 BMG has been banned in most (if not all) states now, which has led to the development of the .416 Remington/Barrett/Rigby/Weatherby caliber and a return to the .338 Lapua, but I wonder if anyone had the chance to try the long- and heavy-hitters (though I would wonder about your sanity if you were to say you quite like the .577 T-Rex XD).

Colt CM901 - a quite interesting new iteration of the AR15 design, banking a tremendous lot on the modularity concept. The CM901 consists of two different types of upper receivers, one chambered in 7.62mm (16'' barrel) and the other in 5.56mm, both of which can be swapped with the lower receiver at any time and without tools, provided you have both respective ammunitions to follow up. The mag well has been optimized to accept both models (7.62x51 and 5.56x45) and accuracy has been improved by the adoption of a free-floating barrel, which has been tested to fire the M118LR round with a 1 MOA degree of precision. A sturdier extractor and spring, as well as steel pieces have been included to increase the upper receiver's strength. Ergonomy has been improved by making the model completely ambidextrous. Practical range is technically 700m.

FN HMAR - the SCAR's heavier brother, unfortunate challenger of the USMC's IAR competition, which ultimately lost to the H&K M27. The HMAR is recognizable by the outgrowth at the bottom of the handguard, which houses a temperature-sensitive devices which can determine when the barrel is reaching cook-off levels and automatically set the rifle to fire from an open bolt configuration to help vent the gasses and dissipate heat. Ammunition comes in either 30r mags or 100r boxes.

FN SCAR PDW ver.1 and ver.2 - shortened variants of the SCAR, the first one being a simple, short-barreled design whereas the second offers a collapsible butt stock and Piccatinny-Weaver Mil-Std 1913 rail interface systems all over the handguard and upper receiver. The flash hider is of the 'open' design, i.e. comparable to the H&K G36/XM8's. Accuracy apparently increases if it fires the new M855A1 round.

Excellent for COD:BO enthusiasts, I say.

Oh, and a happy new year to y'all.

Asuras · 2010-12-31, 16:34

That. Is. Win. Very.

Lost Cause · 2011-01-01, 00:55

Love the selector markings! @justinstrife ought to see that one!

ZeKeR · 2011-01-01, 05:38

people.... WHAT THE HELL DID THEY DO TO THE STANAG?!?!

Spoiler for 60 round mag:

Renegade334 · 2011-01-01, 06:31

The SureFire MAG5-50 are suspected to be the industry's answer to the infantry automatic rifle (IAR) competition (a type of automatic gun primarily championed by the UMSC and supposed to bridge the gap between LMGs and automatic rifles) and an alternative to the large drum mags like the Beta CMAG. I don't think this is for civvies but more for weapons like the M27. I would however have severe concerns about both weight and solidity - you don't want to bash the extremity of the MAG5 on a wall while maneuvering around - that'd be the mother of all jams (imagine 50-50 rounds stuck in a deformed mag? in the middle of a firefight?) and a predicament with deadly consequences if in the middle of a battlefield.

But BTW, that's just the 60-round version. Meet the 100-round version.

Spoiler:

Besides...it must be extremely awkward to shoot from a prone position with such a large mag. Drums should be less embarrassing, though.

ZeKeR · 2011-01-01, 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade334

The SureFire MAG5-50 are suspected to be the industry's answer to the infantry automatic rifle (IAR) competition (a type of automatic gun primarily championed by the UMSC and supposed to bridge the gap between LMGs and automatic rifles) and an alternative to the large drum mags like the Beta CMAG. I don't think this is for civvies but more for weapons like the M27. I would however have severe concerns about both weight and solidity - you don't want to bash the extremity of the MAG5 on a wall while maneuvering around - that'd be the mother of all jams (imagine 50-50 rounds stuck in a deformed mag? in the middle of a firefight?) and a predicament with deadly consequences if in the middle of a battlefield.

But BTW, that's just the 60-round version. Meet the 100-round version.

Spoiler:

Besides...it must be extremely awkward to shoot from a prone position with such a large mag. Drums should be less embarrassing, though.

i pray to god that this will NOT be issued anywhere else... PLEASE.

Roger Rambo · 2011-01-01, 23:07

...how would you fire that thing prone?

Lost Cause · 2011-01-02, 13:45

I have to ask: "What the Hell were they thinking"! I mean the Beta may mentioned by Renegade334 works very well, adds no length vertically to the rifle, but are rather bulky. That and sustained fire of that magnitude might MELT the gas tube!
Sort of reminds me of the stats late in the Vietnam war; "1,000,000,000 rounds per KIA"...@~@! Time for a more effective bullet or more training in accurate shooting!

Asuras · 2011-01-02, 14:10

Or maybe a chopped-down jungle.

Lost Cause · 2011-01-02, 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asuras

Or maybe a chopped-down jungle.

Heh, thats what DDT and Agent Orange was for. Although in the movie Predator, Jesse Ventura's mini-gun did a pretty good job of chopping things down!

Asuras · 2011-01-02, 14:19

And napalm.

Lost Cause · 2011-01-02, 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asuras

And napalm.

lol! Everytime I hear napalm I always think of Robert Duvall in 'Apocalypse Now'! But that was some pretty serious stuff, even back in WW2!

Renegade334 · 2011-01-02, 14:55

Amusingly enough, the US Army did consider the use of handheld miniguns but trashcanned the idea when they reviewed the recoil stats - it was simply impossible to handle, even with the Minigun's 5.56mm variant, the XM214 (which some people currently wish to resurrect, with a souped-up 12,000rpm ROF, as an APC-mounted CIWS). The weapon used in Predator fired blanks and few people could truly use it, Schwarzenegger included.

As for the SureFire mag, I can more or less understand where it comes from, as the role of a machine gun is to not only deliver heavy suppressive fire on an enemy emplacement, but also keep the said enemy's head(s) down while allied troops move forward to secure better positions. The M27 IAR is supposed to fulfill that role, though with a loaded weight below that of a full-fledged LMG, which would not only slow down the shooter but also preclude him from entering a building for room clearing. The other (theoretical) advantage is that the shooter doesn't have to use ammo belts but can directly use ammo drums or STANAG mags...which regular riflemen already transport and thus can supply him with in case he runs out.

The SureFire is merely an attempt to bring high-capacity mags to the M27 and thus reduce the amount of times the shooter has to interrupt his own volume of fire and reload. The big problems I see are that there might be new jamming issues with that "bottleneck" area right beneath the mag well's lip, the impossibility to fire prone, less maneuverability (weight and size) and the fact that if you make the mistake of bashing the floor plate on a nearby wall or doorframe while moving around, the mag could bend and make you a "firepower kill". And of course the fact that this could incite shooters to keep firing longer bursts and thus cause barrel overheat...dangerously reducing weapon lifespan (a regular, non-SF-customized M4's barrel will glow red hot after twelve, fifteen 30r mags of continuous fire...before drooping like a vulgar liquorice stick - HB barrels can last longer...but then again, what kind of idiot soldier would fire the contents of 15 mags in full auto one after the other?).

It could be popular with civvies who don't like reloading their mags but the main client I see here is the Army, though I don't think this was commissioned by any components of the joint US Armed Forces. It should also be mentioned that the Infantry Automatic Rifle (IAR) is a completely novel concept, a makeshift/theoretical bridge between LMGs and assault rifles - we have yet to see whether it floats its own boat or fails to become a real potent gamechanger. Right now it remains paper stuff.

Lost Cause · 2011-01-02, 19:30

The "bottleneck" naming potential you spoke of sort of reminds how my husband TRASHED every Checkmate made magazine for the M-9 that the Govt. bought on a low bid because "they were just as good as the OEM magazines". Yet these same magazines jammed in the sand all the time, right were the 2 columns came together!
I say let the guys and gals on the ground and in the fight decide. But that would mAke too much sense now wouldn't it?!

ZeKeR · 2011-01-03, 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost Cause

The "bottleneck" naming potential you spoke of sort of reminds how my husband TRASHED every Checkmate made magazine for the M-9 that the Govt. bought on a low bid because "they were just as good as the OEM magazines". Yet these same magazines jammed in the sand all the time, right were the 2 columns came together!
I say let the guys and gals on the ground and in the fight decide. But that would mAke too much sense now wouldn't it?!

well it depends tho...

this summer, ima gonna ask my uncle to let me face HK's G36 and its variants along with thar 416 and 17.

oh is there such a combo as Aimpoint comp M2 with EOTech's holo sight in the front? the only sights i ever did get to look was Bushnell, Elcan and Trijicon (which is also my fav) ACOG systems... SUSAT was... just... gross

grylsyjaeger · 2011-01-03, 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost Cause

Sort of reminds me of the stats late in the Vietnam war; "1,000,000,000 rounds per KIA"...@~@! Time for a more effective bullet or more training in accurate shooting!

Get some! Get some! Get some!

Lost Cause · 2011-01-04, 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallschirmjager

Get some! Get some! Get some!

LOL! Somebody watched 'Full Metal Jacket' last night!

Drake · 2011-01-04, 17:42

This thread make me wish I didn't live in the N.Ireland =[

When I was in Florida a few years back I couldn't pull myself away from an indoor range close to our hotel and I think I blew a good chunk of my cash sampling the "menu".

I'd love to be able to put together a Costa AR build =/

2010-12-30, 01:20	Link #142
Lost Cause Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Virginia Age: 46	Actually the point I was getting at was by using said .30 caliber rifles that they would require less bullets on target to get the desired effect. I.E. Less shots to stop the threat or humanely take game! Wouldn't one of the old bolt action rifles of WW1 or WW2 be just as effective as one of these hi-capacity wonder guns putting a gob of lead out? __________________ Ride, Boldly Ride!

2010-12-31, 16:32	Link #143
Renegade334 Sleepy Lurker Graphic Designer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nun'yabiznehz Age: 38	A few pics from the AUSA'10 convention (pass if uninterested by military tech): Spoiler: XM2010 ESR - a .300 Winchester evolution of the M40A1/A3 sniper rifle, gone all skeletal and more or less following the M14/DMR-->M39 EMR trend. Gone is the wood and glass fiber, replaced by polymer and aluminum (protected by a chemical anticorrosive coating), to provide better resilience in low-temperature environments. It is equipped with a Leupold Mk4 6x20, featuring a stadimetric reticle. Fed by a 5-round mag, it comes equipped with a sound moderator and a skeletal, folding stock. Barrett M107A1 - the next M82/M107 build, with a slightly smaller weight (13.3kg) and a revised flash hider (replaced by a four-chamber model). The Barrett MRAD, a .338 Lapua version of the Barrett M82/M107 that features a few sets of improvement over its predecessors - most notably the fact that it only weighs 6.7kg, boasts a folding skeleton stock (complete with adjustable cheek guard) to reduce its length and thus facilitate transport. The only possible technical throwback is that the MRAD discarded the automatic loading principle for the traditional bolt action...which can be pulled back thanks to a large lever specially designed for shooters wearing thick gloves in winter. The butt stock plate is in sorbothane, a shock-absorbent material. The fluted barrel allows better heat dissipation and can be augmented with a Barrett-designed sound moderator. I wonder, has anyone fired heavy-caliber rifles, here? .50 BMG has been banned in most (if not all) states now, which has led to the development of the .416 Remington/Barrett/Rigby/Weatherby caliber and a return to the .338 Lapua, but I wonder if anyone had the chance to try the long- and heavy-hitters (though I would wonder about your sanity if you were to say you quite like the .577 T-Rex XD). Colt CM901 - a quite interesting new iteration of the AR15 design, banking a tremendous lot on the modularity concept. The CM901 consists of two different types of upper receivers, one chambered in 7.62mm (16'' barrel) and the other in 5.56mm, both of which can be swapped with the lower receiver at any time and without tools, provided you have both respective ammunitions to follow up. The mag well has been optimized to accept both models (7.62x51 and 5.56x45) and accuracy has been improved by the adoption of a free-floating barrel, which has been tested to fire the M118LR round with a 1 MOA degree of precision. A sturdier extractor and spring, as well as steel pieces have been included to increase the upper receiver's strength. Ergonomy has been improved by making the model completely ambidextrous. Practical range is technically 700m. FN HMAR - the SCAR's heavier brother, unfortunate challenger of the USMC's IAR competition, which ultimately lost to the H&K M27. The HMAR is recognizable by the outgrowth at the bottom of the handguard, which houses a temperature-sensitive devices which can determine when the barrel is reaching cook-off levels and automatically set the rifle to fire from an open bolt configuration to help vent the gasses and dissipate heat. Ammunition comes in either 30r mags or 100r boxes. FN SCAR PDW ver.1 and ver.2 - shortened variants of the SCAR, the first one being a simple, short-barreled design whereas the second offers a collapsible butt stock and Piccatinny-Weaver Mil-Std 1913 rail interface systems all over the handguard and upper receiver. The flash hider is of the 'open' design, i.e. comparable to the H&K G36/XM8's. Accuracy apparently increases if it fires the new M855A1 round. Excellent for COD:BO enthusiasts, I say. Oh, and a happy new year to y'all. __________________ << -- Click to enter my (dead) GFX thread. Last edited by Renegade334; 2011-01-01 at 06:39.

2010-12-31, 16:34	Link #144
Asuras Dictadere~! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: On the front lines, fighting for inderpendence.	That. Is. Win. Very. __________________

2011-01-01, 00:55	Link #145
Lost Cause Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Virginia Age: 46	Love the selector markings! @justinstrife ought to see that one! __________________ Ride, Boldly Ride!

2011-01-01, 05:38	Link #146
ZeKeR Superbad Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Armacham Replica Training center	people.... WHAT THE HELL DID THEY DO TO THE STANAG?!?! Spoiler for 60 round mag: __________________ lets roll

2011-01-01, 06:31	Link #147
Renegade334 Sleepy Lurker Graphic Designer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nun'yabiznehz Age: 38	The SureFire MAG5-50 are suspected to be the industry's answer to the infantry automatic rifle (IAR) competition (a type of automatic gun primarily championed by the UMSC and supposed to bridge the gap between LMGs and automatic rifles) and an alternative to the large drum mags like the Beta CMAG. I don't think this is for civvies but more for weapons like the M27. I would however have severe concerns about both weight and solidity - you don't want to bash the extremity of the MAG5 on a wall while maneuvering around - that'd be the mother of all jams (imagine 50-50 rounds stuck in a deformed mag? in the middle of a firefight?) and a predicament with deadly consequences if in the middle of a battlefield. But BTW, that's just the 60-round version. Meet the 100-round version. Spoiler: SureFire High Capacity Magazine Specifications: SureFire MAG5-60 HCM Specs: Caliber: 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington Capacity: 60 Rounds Height: 8.7″ / 22.1 cm Width: 1.66″ / 4.2 cm, .88″ / 2.2 cm Weight-Empty: 6.4 ounces / 181 grams Weight-Fully Loaded: 2.02 lbs / 920 grams Box Material: 6000 Series Aluminum Follower Material: Nylon Construction: Spot Welded Finish/Color: MIL-L-46010 (Grey) SureFire MAG5-100 HCM Specs: Caliber: 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington Capacity: 100 Rounds Height: 12.2″ / 31 cm Width: 1.66″ / 4.2 cm, .88″ / 2.2 cm Weight-Empty: 9.6 ounces / 272 grams Weight-Fully Loaded: 3.3 lbs / 1.5 kg Box Material: 6000 Series Aluminum Follower Material: Nylon Construction: Spot Welded Finish/Color: MIL-L-46010 (Grey) Standard MILSPEC USGI 30-Round Magazine Specs (data provided by SureFire): Caliber: 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington Height: 7.1” Width: 0.88” Weight-Empty: 3.9 ounces Weight-Fully Loaded: 1.06lb/16.9 oz Besides...it must be extremely awkward to shoot from a prone position with such a large mag. Drums should be less embarrassing, though. __________________ << -- Click to enter my (dead) GFX thread.

2011-01-01, 23:07	Link #149
Roger Rambo Sensei, aishite imasu Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome	...how would you fire that thing prone?

2011-01-02, 13:45	Link #150
Lost Cause Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Virginia Age: 46	I have to ask: "What the Hell were they thinking"! I mean the Beta may mentioned by Renegade334 works very well, adds no length vertically to the rifle, but are rather bulky. That and sustained fire of that magnitude might MELT the gas tube! Sort of reminds me of the stats late in the Vietnam war; "1,000,000,000 rounds per KIA"...@~@! Time for a more effective bullet or more training in accurate shooting! __________________ Ride, Boldly Ride!

2011-01-02, 14:10	Link #151
Asuras Dictadere~! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: On the front lines, fighting for inderpendence.	Or maybe a chopped-down jungle. __________________

2011-01-02, 14:19	Link #153
Asuras Dictadere~! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: On the front lines, fighting for inderpendence.	And napalm. __________________

2011-01-02, 14:55	Link #155
Renegade334 Sleepy Lurker Graphic Designer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nun'yabiznehz Age: 38	Amusingly enough, the US Army did consider the use of handheld miniguns but trashcanned the idea when they reviewed the recoil stats - it was simply impossible to handle, even with the Minigun's 5.56mm variant, the XM214 (which some people currently wish to resurrect, with a souped-up 12,000rpm ROF, as an APC-mounted CIWS). The weapon used in Predator fired blanks and few people could truly use it, Schwarzenegger included. As for the SureFire mag, I can more or less understand where it comes from, as the role of a machine gun is to not only deliver heavy suppressive fire on an enemy emplacement, but also keep the said enemy's head(s) down while allied troops move forward to secure better positions. The M27 IAR is supposed to fulfill that role, though with a loaded weight below that of a full-fledged LMG, which would not only slow down the shooter but also preclude him from entering a building for room clearing. The other (theoretical) advantage is that the shooter doesn't have to use ammo belts but can directly use ammo drums or STANAG mags...which regular riflemen already transport and thus can supply him with in case he runs out. The SureFire is merely an attempt to bring high-capacity mags to the M27 and thus reduce the amount of times the shooter has to interrupt his own volume of fire and reload. The big problems I see are that there might be new jamming issues with that "bottleneck" area right beneath the mag well's lip, the impossibility to fire prone, less maneuverability (weight and size) and the fact that if you make the mistake of bashing the floor plate on a nearby wall or doorframe while moving around, the mag could bend and make you a "firepower kill". And of course the fact that this could incite shooters to keep firing longer bursts and thus cause barrel overheat...dangerously reducing weapon lifespan (a regular, non-SF-customized M4's barrel will glow red hot after twelve, fifteen 30r mags of continuous fire...before drooping like a vulgar liquorice stick - HB barrels can last longer...but then again, what kind of idiot soldier would fire the contents of 15 mags in full auto one after the other?). It could be popular with civvies who don't like reloading their mags but the main client I see here is the Army, though I don't think this was commissioned by any components of the joint US Armed Forces. It should also be mentioned that the Infantry Automatic Rifle (IAR) is a completely novel concept, a makeshift/theoretical bridge between LMGs and assault rifles - we have yet to see whether it floats its own boat or fails to become a real potent gamechanger. Right now it remains paper stuff. __________________ << -- Click to enter my (dead) GFX thread. Last edited by Renegade334; 2011-01-02 at 15:09.

2011-01-02, 19:30	Link #156
Lost Cause Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Virginia Age: 46	The "bottleneck" naming potential you spoke of sort of reminds how my husband TRASHED every Checkmate made magazine for the M-9 that the Govt. bought on a low bid because "they were just as good as the OEM magazines". Yet these same magazines jammed in the sand all the time, right were the 2 columns came together! I say let the guys and gals on the ground and in the fight decide. But that would mAke too much sense now wouldn't it?! __________________ Ride, Boldly Ride!

2011-01-04, 17:42	Link #160
Drake dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Northern Ireland	This thread make me wish I didn't live in the N.Ireland =[ When I was in Florida a few years back I couldn't pull myself away from an indoor range close to our hotel and I think I blew a good chunk of my cash sampling the "menu". I'd love to be able to put together a Costa AR build =/ __________________