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View Poll Results: Psycho-Pass - Episode 11 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 65 | 63.11% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 28 | 27.18% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 5 | 4.85% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 1 | 0.97% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 1 | 0.97% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 1 | 0.97% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 1 | 0.97% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 1 | 0.97% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-12-26, 08:29 | Link #161 | |||||
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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He's an irredeemable monster that resorts to murder to further his plans, we all get that. Its just that he just doesn't kill for the sake of itself. That's the only thing I want to say. Quote:
One is not necessarily better than the other, but the difference has to be drawn between the two categories. Each interpretation creates a drastically different picture of the character we're trying to analyze. It does no good to study a character if we simply lump all mass murderers into the same psychological profile. Now that would be naive. Quote:
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The thing about appreciating fiction is that it is mostly an exercise of putting yourself in the shoes of another character, understanding his/her motivations and mental process to the fullest. For me, moral relativity serves as a means of appreciating the beauty found in fiction. It's not something so simple that you can just insert yourself in a character's shoes and then judging everything from your own perspective. But then, maybe it's just me. I agree with your sentiment, but I live by the belief that even the villains we perceive to be monstrous can be analyzed, reduced to their basic psychological elements.
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2012-12-26, 08:31 | Link #162 |
The Observer
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: here, there, everywhere
Age: 34
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I agree with Qilin. Aside from this episode, we haven't seen Makishima killing anyone else. If he hasn't and he makes other people do this, then he doesn't derive any pleasure from it. I think this fact kind of makes him "harmless" . He won't go on murdering spree around the city. This is what normal and pathetic murderers do, within the anime. He's not taking lives just because of some emotion he has, when he kills, he kills to test and make a point, as far as we've seen. For me this is far better than being a mere murderer who's taking lives just because he wants to. It is too simple. If Makishima is supposed to be presented as a great villain, if he kills for pleasure, this will ruin his character, I think. He's something more than just a killer. That's why he's interesting.
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2012-12-26, 09:10 | Link #163 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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All anyone has to do to live without trouble is to follow the path designated by the system. People enter society under the illusion that everything will be fine as long as they simply do what the system tells them to do, hence the reliance on the Psycho-Pass and the Dominators. As a result, the ability to make decisions is gradually eroded away. As Senguji puts, all that's left is to mechanize the human brain, so that even the act of thinking will be directly controlled by the system.
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2012-12-26, 09:34 | Link #164 | ||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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Also. Is EVERYONE forgetting how Makishima has always been mentioning how he's *entertained* by watching the people he supports do what they do? That, and the fact that he often disposes of them for being *boring* rather blatantly categorizes him as finding pleasure in doing these kind of things. Quote:
Saying that Makishima doesn't have emotional involvement in his crimes is preposterous.
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2012-12-26, 09:49 | Link #165 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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My opinion remains unchanged. He's a killer, but his goal is directed more towards "breaking the game" than the cruder sort of pleasure one might find from committing murder.
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2012-12-26, 09:54 | Link #166 |
The Observer
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: here, there, everywhere
Age: 34
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A killer with stronger urge to find pleasure in what he does, would be more involved with the killing - he will do it himself. He is not killing just for the sake of the killing itself, for the pleasure itself.
That's what I'm trying to say. Killing for pleasure or another strong emotion is a way for the killer to fill a void in himself, to feel something or to let out some kind of emotion he has (for example, one can kill old women who remind him of his abusive mother from his childhood). Makishima doesn't do that. |
2012-12-26, 10:00 | Link #167 | |
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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The only difference is the sophistication which Makishima derives satisfaction out of murder. That's why directly bashing someones head in doesn't do it for Makishima. That's why he likes to toy around with other guys who do the killing, before he gets bored with them.
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2012-12-26, 10:15 | Link #168 |
Senior Member
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To get Makishima's character, I think it's important to remember who's writing this anime - Gen Urobuchi.
There are certain character types that Gen has a fondness for, and likes coming back to time and time again. I think this becomes clear if you compare Madoka Magica to Fate/Zero to Psycho-Pass (particularly at a character-to-character level). One such character type is the guy that believes "The Ends Justify the Means". For one character, "The Ends" is combating entropy. For another, "The Ends" is achieving lasting, universal peace. For Makishima, "The Ends" is revealing the Sibyl system for the monstrous farce that it is (at least as Makishima views it). At a surface level, what Makishima is doing is obviously harmful and horrible. Yuki just seemed to be a fairly normal girl for her age. There's certainly no indication that she deserved to die. She's a tragic casualty in Makishima's game against the Sibyl system, and so its understandable that we would think ill of Makishima for killing her. It's probably good that many here take great exception to Makishima's "means". But we shouldn't lose sight of his "ends" - Of what is the primary motivation for him. Now, Makishima isn't a complete revolutionary. He doesn't seem to have any particular system that he wants to replace the Sibyl system with. But I do think he wants to tear down the Sibyl system as much as he possibly can. I think this goal motivates him, and pushes him onward. Makishima probably thinks that what he is doing is right, in the "grander scheme of things". I think that's precisely why his crime coefficient is so low - Because he thinks that what he's doing is justified by the greater goal of ripping into an oppressive system that is deadening the spirit of humanity. Unlike most criminals, who at some level recognize the wrongness of their actions regardless of how they try to rationalize it, Makishima truly believes that the sacrifice of people like Yuki is morally justifiable. It's fine to hate Makishima just as it's fine to hate a certain alien in Madoka Magica. But to understand such characters, you can't allow such hate to cloud your assessment of them. In their minds, what they're doing is right, and that's key to understanding these characters, imo.
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2012-12-26, 10:25 | Link #169 |
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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That's a very good explanation Triple_R.
Mind, it's interesting that for someone who has been hinted as being a revolutionary, all the things that Makishima are doing seem to be rather small time in the grand scheme of the things. Traumatizing rookie police inspectors and allowing a small number of serial killers to have fun in secret doesn't exactly seem like something that fundamentally shakes the foundation of an entire society...unless of course contagious crime coefficient is really as bad as it's been hinted at. Makishima's talk makes it sound like at times he's grooming these killers to be something...is he trying to amass a small army of perfect(in his mind anyway) psycho murderers who he can unleash in the series climax, causing a wildstorm of anarchy causing contagious crime coefficient? ...actually I think those might be ends that most people wouldn't agree with either
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2012-12-26, 10:32 | Link #170 | ||
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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Also: Spoiler for a short note:
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The way I see it, he's closer in character to Johan Liebert (Monster) and the Joker (The Dark Knight) than Lelouch (Code Geass). But then, we're only halfway through the show, so I'm fine with waiting and seeing.
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Last edited by Qilin; 2012-12-26 at 10:47. |
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2012-12-26, 10:39 | Link #171 |
Senior Member
Author
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Honestly, you're not doing your argument any favors here. Equating a pianist with a serial killer purely on the basis of "dopamine rush"? Equating killing humans with killing cockroaches? Seriously, Qilin?
If anything, you're clearly showing that there's limits to how far we can or should "reduce things". You're showing that there's limits to how much importance should be placed in material reality alone.
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2012-12-26, 10:49 | Link #172 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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I was trying to point out the logical absurdity of explaining human psychology from a purely materialistic perspective.
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2012-12-26, 11:16 | Link #173 | |
Senior Member
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Mainly to satisfy his own personal sense of humanity, Makishima wants to tear down the Sibyl system. Ok, understood. It looks like I misread you here.
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2012-12-26, 12:11 | Link #174 | |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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2012-12-26, 12:36 | Link #176 | |
Senior Member
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Consider the history of slavery, for example. Slavery was "normal" and "part of life" and in many areas it was commonplace, so for thousands of years relatively few people seriously questioned it. Slavery today is now widely looked down upon, and completely rejected in most 1st-world nations. But it was not always so. Did that mean that people living in past eras were all freely choosing slavery over no slavery? Or did it mean that people living in past eras were too busy going about their normal daily lives to concern themselves with something that was an entrenched part of society?
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2012-12-26, 17:39 | Link #178 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Re: Makishima's motivations. It seems like an ego thing to him. "Look at me as I rise above the sheeple!" (by exploiting flaws in the system to commit pointless acts of horror.) Like a hipster crossed with the Joker. |
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2012-12-26, 21:53 | Link #180 |
Deploying Funnel Cakes
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Shogo is a genius and a psychopath. He has a complete lack of empathy and has completely dehumanized the human race.
He can do these cruel things because he has convinced himself that he's better than humanity as a whole. He doesn't feel remorse because he sees himself killing an animal whenever he kills another person. This is the impression of the Senguji. I bet he's not the final villain. The Sybil system was created to protect the elite and I bet the politicians are immune to it. The creator may still be around. In the end I see him getting killed by... - the investigators siccing the "joker" on him. It's that crazy dude who tattooed muscles on his body. They may unleash a horrible monster to hunt him down. - he gets drugged... he succumbs to emotions in an altered state of mind. "Scarecrows fear gas." - he breaks when he finally feels pain. - he commits suicide - he gets killed by the creator of the Sybil system. In the end. Shogo doesn't have a practical goal. The dark shogun who designed the system will come out and end him, I anticipate. The guy who created the system did it to control mankind and he did it for power. The power hungry guy will win but in the end his system may crumble when all hell breaks loose. In the end, Shogo gets killed by the being of pure logic or the eugenicist/the guy who wants to engineer the human race. Last edited by mechalord; 2012-12-26 at 22:07. |
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