Sasuke .. Snake master ?!

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by SpiRo

Actually it way Jiraiya who was all the time trying to summon Gamabunta .. When Tsunade started summoning Katsuyu, then Kabuto told to Oro to summon Manda and then Jiraiya summond Bunta.

Actually, because of his chakra was messed up at the time, we don't know what Jiraiya was trying to summon most of the time... Just as Oro summoned those fist two snakes, Jiarya may have only been intending summon something big, but not as big as Bunta

Originally Posted by Rurik

First off, why the Sanin in the battle decided to Summon their Godzilla class summon? Maybe because Tsunade started the chain reaction? Or maybe because each of them knew they were facing a Sannin and it was best to call them up?

What I don’t think is that they will Summon those Godzilla class summon to take on single Shinoby, because apart from the huge deal of chakra they cost, is how Gamabunta and Manda seems to be very picky to do what their “master” tell them to do. I don’t think size here is of much importance as we have seen how Oro have Summoned big snake for just Team 7.

You say that they would not summon a boss summon to take on a single ninja but that's pretty much what Tsunade did... a Handicaped Orochimaru and a exhausted Kabuto were the only oppenents and instead of taken them on herself she decided to bring out her biggest summon to fight them with... She summoned it to fight them, not to fight with Manda... Manda was summoned as a counter to Katsyu; Orochimaru knew that his chakra was better spent to summon manda to counter Katsyu then it was to continue fight on his own

As for the chakra it costs to summon them, the chakra generall seems to be well spent... The chakra needed to summon them seems to be less that the chakra the summons themsleves seem to have... The destructive potential of the summons aswell also tends to be FAR greater than what the ninja who summoned them is capable of... Kinda of a good trade for chakra i'd say

Really when it comes to Manda and Gamabunta there is little pleasing them... Summon them against a smallfry and they'll probably complaign that it's a waste of their time... however, summon them against something as big as boss summon and they will complaign that they would rather not fight something so strong (though bunta complains less than manda in this case)... they seem to prefer easy victories over hard ones... Basically though, if a single ninja is too strong then you could pretty much use a big summon to help you gain the upperhand; you may want to throw in something smaller at first like Oro did in the sannin fight, but then you may need to up the ante if that isn't enough, like what Tsunade did... and if a regualar big summon wasn't enough to take down your oppenent, then a boss summon shouldn't have much to compliang about

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

You say that they would not summon a boss summon to take on a single ninja but that's pretty much what Tsunade did... a Handicaped Orochimaru and a exhausted Kabuto were the only oppenents and instead of taken them on herself she decided to bring out her biggest summon to fight them with... She summoned it to fight them, not to fight with Manda... Manda was summoned as a counter to Katsyu; Orochimaru knew that his chakra was better spent to summon manda to counter Katsyu then it was to continue fight on his own

Yes, reason why I said “each of them knew they were facing a Sannin”, we don’t know what Tsunade would had done in this same situation against someone that was not a Sannin. for me as long as is a battle between Sanin, then is possible they assumed the worst case scenario and hence summon the Boss, not so, against any other shinoby, who is not going to come up with such a Summon.

As for the chakra it costs to summon them, the chakra generall seems to be well spent... The chakra needed to summon them seems to be less that the chakra the summons themsleves seem to have... The destructive potential of the summons aswell also tends to be FAR greater than what the ninja who summoned them is capable of... Kinda of a good trade for chakra i'd say

it is well spent if the summons decides to fight with you, if you can waste less chakra by summoning something smaller and controllable, why waste more chakra to summon something bigger and most probably don’t want to fight? Look the amount of damage some snakes did to Konoha, and they weren’t as big as Manda.

Really when it comes to Manda and Gamabunta there is little pleasing them... Summon them against a smallfry and they'll probably complaign that it's a waste of their time... however, summon them against something as big as boss summon and they will complaign that they would rather not fight something so strong (though bunta complains less than manda in this case)... they seem to prefer easy victories over hard ones... Basically though, if a single ninja is too strong then you could pretty much use a big summon to help you gain the upperhand; you may want to throw in something smaller at first like Oro did in the sannin fight, but then you may need to up the ante if that isn't enough, like what Tsunade did... and if a regualar big summon wasn't enough to take down your oppenent, then a boss summon shouldn't have much to compliang about

The point here is not about the complaint, is about how controllable this summon are, they seem to do what they want to do (exept Tsunades summom), so, what a Sanin is going to do after wasting a huge amount of Chakra to summon a Boss Summom and to find out this Boss Summon has decided to not fight?

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Rurik

it is well spent if the summons decides to fight with you, if you can waste less chakra by summoning something smaller and controllable, why waste more chakra to summon something bigger and most probably don’t want to fight? Look the amount of damage some snakes did to Konoha, and they weren’t as big as Manda.

The point here is not about the complaint, is about how controllable this summon are, they seem to do what they want to do (exept Tsunades summom), so, what a Sanin is going to do after wasting a huge amount of Chakra to summon a Boss Summom and to find out this Boss Summon has decided to not fight?

All jutsus come with a similar risk, i mean if you use an attack and the opponent dodges it the chakra is also wasted... The use of any jutsu generally comes with a risk, the risk of the boss summons is how controllable they are.... what a Sannin does is that they much judge the situation and judge wheather or not it is worth the risk to summon them(hence why they aren't summoned every battle, only when really strong oppenents)... They know their summons personality and summon them only when they believe they will be willing to fight; as we saw with Gamabunta, though he complaigned about fighting Shukaku for Naruto's sake, he didn't offer the same complaint when fighting Manda for Jiryia's sake... The problem most commonly seen with smaller summons is that they are otfen not strong enough to get the job done... Those snakes against Kohona we're the only time summons of that size really shined, the rest of the time they just ended up getting beaten, by non-summons i might add... So when a ninja is strong enough to take down a normal more controlable summon, what is a sannin to do? shall he fight them head on, or summon the boss summon to take on the ninja? If the ninja was strong enough to take down a nomral summon then it probably is about worth the time of the boss summon to help you, esspecially if you happen to have some loyalty from the boss...

In the case of Naruto and Gamabunta... Gamabunta's loyalty has been steadily growing and post timeskip is probably better then it was before... And if Naruto starts off with a normally frog and that frog gets taken down, Gamabunta will be a pretty safe follow up, seeing as he is very protective of his kids and will take on most anyone who hurts them, even if they don't have a summon

[othafa]

Originally Posted by SpiRo

Actually Manda said..

Spoiler:

Manda: Summoning me here in this lame excuse for land, u want me to eat your sorry ass!? You`d better prepare at least 100 sacrfices after this.

So i will asume that Manda wanna human sacfrfices for every summon on "this pathetic excuse for land" .

Actually...you're misquoting or misinterpreting or reading a misinterpreted quote. Manda was complaining about the troublesome predicament that he found himself in. I know I wouldn't want to be summoned into an area with 2 other summons who want to fight me, when each of those summons has power comprable to my own, and each of them has a Sannin on top of its back. That's why Kabuto made it apparent that they should hide Orochimaru's condition from Manda, because if they didn't and Manda realized that his Sannin partner was a gimp, he would have been like "Peace!" <<poof>>

On topic...
I definately speculate that Sasuke wouldn't have to worry about human sacrifices, because I would imagine that Sasuke might actually have the power to overwhelm Manda and force him into submission. Also, based on the constant comparisons that are drawn between team 7 and the Sannin, I can definately see Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke having a battle similar to the one that Oro, Jiraiya, and Tsunade had. More importantly, since bunta hasn't been summoned yet in Shippuden, I would image that Kishi is waiting for a special time to have Naruto summon him, which could be to combat another massive summon.

Off topic...
I hope that Naruto has learned better Chakra control over the last 2.5 years and is now able to summon frogs that are combat effective but still smaller than bunta.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

All jutsus come with a similar risk, i mean if you use an attack and the opponent dodges it the chakra is also wasted... The use of any jutsu generally comes with a risk, the risk of the boss summons is how controllable they are....

The difference here is very clear, the amount of chkara been wasted, and the idea that the risk of you missing any other jutsu is an risk expected as you at least got to use the Jutsu, rather, than a risk of The jutsu not even trying to help(or worst, turn against you). so the risk of any other jutsu that doesn't think by themselves, is not the same kind of risk.

what a Sannin does is that they much judge the situation and judge wheather or not it is worth the risk to summon them(hence why they aren't summoned every battle, only when really strong oppenents)... They know their summons personality and summon them only when they believe they will be willing to fight; as we saw with Gamabunta, though he complaigned about fighting Shukaku for Naruto's sake, he didn't offer the same complaint when fighting Manda for Jiryia's sake...

Yeah reason why I still talking about not using them against a single shinoby, they calculate the situation.

The problem most commonly seen with smaller summons is that they are otfen not strong enough to get the job done... Those snakes against Kohona we're the only time summons of that size really shined, the rest of the time they just ended up getting beaten, by non-summons i might add...

Yeah Could you start naming the moments those Summoms have been beaten by Non-summmom or a Sanin? none, as those size of snake summom has been only called twice, against Konoha, and in the Sannin fight, the last one been stoped by Jiriaya, A Sannin. Dont make it look as if the size of these summoms are no useful and they have been done a lot of time.

And before you think about it, the snakes used by Oro in the forest of death were not the same class as the other.

So when a ninja is strong enough to take down a normal more controlable summon, what is a sannin to do? shall he fight them head on, or summon the boss summon to take on the ninja? If the ninja was strong enough to take down a nomral summon then it probably is about worth the time of the boss summon to help you, esspecially if you happen to have some loyalty from the boss...

It doesn't matter about the summom, the summon doesn't represent how strong a sannin could be; fighting against a strong foe who could stop a summon like that, (Like Tsuande stopped manda), doesnt mean the Sanin needs to look for a bigger summon.

the summon is part of the sanin strength, not all of the Sanin strength, they could very well stop a Shinoby that defeated one summon without the need of summoning a bigger summon, Just as Oro stopped Sasuke.

In the case of Naruto and Gamabunta... Gamabunta's loyalty has been steadily growing and post timeskip is probably better then it was before... And if Naruto starts off with a normally frog and that frog gets taken down, Gamabunta will be a pretty safe follow up, seeing as he is very protective of his kids and will take on most anyone who hurts them, even if they don't have a summon

Plot wise that could be determined by Kishi mood, yeah maybe Gama will help Naruto; logic wise, I don't see Gama Helping Naruto to take on Neeji. and I doubt Naruto had summoned Gama ever since the last time he used him. call in this summons just to play around will only make the summon angrier at the summoner.

[Goshin]

Originally Posted by othafa

On topic...
I definately speculate that Sasuke wouldn't have to worry about human sacrifices, because I would imagine that Sasuke might actually have the power to overwhelm Manda and force him into submission..

I agree, i heard that manda, respects orochimaru because of his strenght, meaning that if he hears that sasuke defeated orochimaru, that respect might be so much more, that he won't ask for human sacrafice. I amagine that sasuke summons manda, manda complains, sasuke stare at him in the eye and he shuts up

Originally Posted by othafa;896096[B

][/B]
Off topic...
I hope that Naruto has learned better Chakra control over the last 2.5 years and is now able to summon frogs that are combat effective but still smaller than bunta.

i have seen a picture of him on top of grown up gamakachi, i don't know if that is true

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Goshin

i have seen a picture of him on top of grown up gamakachi, i don't know if that is true

it was an art from Kishimoto, so you can say it is true.

[SpiRo]

Originally Posted by othafa

Actually...you're misquoting or misinterpreting or reading a misinterpreted quote. Manda was complaining about the troublesome predicament that he found himself in. I know I wouldn't want to be summoned into an area with 2 other summons who want to fight me, when each of those summons has power comprable to my own, and each of them has a Sannin on top of its back. That's why Kabuto made it apparent that they should hide Orochimaru's condition from Manda, because if they didn't and Manda realized that his Sannin partner was a gimp, he would have been like "Peace!" <<poof>>

Actually u r wrong .. that what u talk Manda didnt say in manga .. that is puted in anime only .. so start reading manga then talk ..

Kabuto thinked about that becouse Manda dont want to fight aside with weak Sannin, and thats why Manda said that he will kill Oro when they meet again ..

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Well .. IMO Manda is stronger then Bunta and Katsuyu in single 1v1 fight .. i dont know what would happen if Oro was in good shape, maybe he could block that Buntas knife and in the end he maybe win against Tsunade(Katsuyu) and Jiraiya(Gamabunta)..

I think that .. becouse Oro was thinking that it is troublesome to fight both of them in same time .. but that it is not imposible if he could use his jutsu .. and i think Manda is stronger then Bunta/Katsuyu becouse Manda want human sacrfices ..

[Goshin]

Originally Posted by SpiRo

Well .. IMO Manda is stronger then Bunta and Katsuyu in single 1v1 fight .. i dont know what would happen if Oro was in good shape, maybe he could block that Buntas knife and in the end he maybe win against Tsunade(Katsuyu) and Jiraiya(Gamabunta)..

I think that .. becouse Oro was thinking that it is troublesome to fight both of them in same time .. but that it is not imposible if he could use his jutsu .. and i think Manda is stronger then Bunta/Katsuyu becouse Manda want human sacrfices ..

althgough that is aparent, it would be better for them to be equal, like none can't overpwere the other two, one is stronger than the other. like the circle of elements.

[SpiRo]

Originally Posted by Goshin

althgough that is aparent, it would be better for them to be equal, like none can't overpwere the other two, one is stronger than the other. like the circle of elements.

Ofc i agree that if there is tree strong shanins 1 cant beat other 2 together ..

But it looked like Oro could beat them if he could use jutsu .. and Manda really looked like he could beat Bunta and Katsuyu together .. but Tsunada made fatal hit.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

I think that if Manda would swallow Gamabunta with Jiraiya....they would kill Manda ---> Katon Gamayu Endan (from inside)...

Manda is a anaconda kind of type....so it has no poison...well i guess we could say the same for Katsyu her kind of acid is pretty strong.

[SpiRo]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

I think that if Manda would swallow Gamabunta with Jiraiya....they would kill Manda ---> Katon Gamayu Endan (from inside)...

Manda is a anaconda kind of type....so it has no poison...well i guess we could say the same for Katsyu her kind of acid is pretty strong.

Hmmm i doubt something that stupid can happen .. Then why Bunta and Katsuyu didnt let Manda swallow them so they can kill him easy ?

[reloaded]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

I think that if Manda would swallow Gamabunta with Jiraiya....they would kill Manda ---> Katon Gamayu Endan (from inside)...

Manda is a anaconda kind of type....so it has no poison...well i guess we could say the same for Katsyu her kind of acid is pretty strong.

The manor in which Manda was trying to attack Gamabunta and Katsuyu wouldnt suggest that he was trying to swallow them, It was more like he was trying to bite them so he probably does have lethal venom.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by SpiRo

Hmmm i doubt something that stupid can happen .. Then why Bunta and Katsuyu didnt let Manda swallow them so they can kill him easy ?

If you watched the movie "anaconda" getting swallowed is scary as hell!
Whether you live or not....it's risky..

Originally Posted by reloaded

The manor in which Manda was trying to attack Gamabunta and Katsuyu wouldnt suggest that he was trying to swallow them, It was more like he was trying to bite them so he probably does have lethal venom.

Doesnt have to...he probably was indeed trying to injure them but i still doubt he has poison..