[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 4 Alliance of the golden witch

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Shinndou

Could anyone remind me how many people received that letter with the bank account number, besides Nanjo's son and Kumasawa's son?

We only know for sure: Nanjo's son, Kumasawa's son, Ange. It is hinted that there are many other people that received the same letter, but we aren't told anything about that.

As for the red truth:

Spoiler for ep4 tea party:

There are no more than 17 humans existing on this island!! This includes an 18th person. In other words, no 18th person X exists!! This applies to all games!!!

It says "human" (I guess it's "人間").

The last riddle has been discussed in the previous page, and well personally I don't think there can be any trick, only one person is alive.

The rest, can be, who knows, it's one of the various possibilities.

[Shinndou]

So we're sure that it's referring to them as 17 physical persons and not 17 identities... oh well. That still makes me question if Asumu had a child then where this child is.

[Squirrellord]

この島には１８人以上の人間は存在しない！！
Yup, the word used was 人間 for human.


Oh, and here's a thought
Battler goes missing, as stated by the tips in episode 4. As said earlier, going missing under suspicious circumstances gets you the status of "dead". If not, after 7 years, he's "dead". When the letters are found, everyone will assume that Beatrice killed him, even though he's technically still alive

[Shinndou]

That could be said for other similar cases as well though, see EP1 with the other cousins missing as well...

[Bern-chan]

Spoiler for Long Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinndou

It's been a while since I played EP4 but last night I've been casually thinking about it so I wanted to be sure of something first. Could anyone remind me how many people received that letter with the bank account number, besides Nanjo's son and Kumasawa's son?

One thing I remember from episode 3 is that the number is painted with blood on a door, and the TIPS suggest that it's referred as a door towards a small Golden Land. Now, the number uses Battler's birthday as the first part (07151129), however we don't know what the other numbers mean. I know people have been speculating that it's a time, but what if it's an other date?

For that reason, there's one thing I keep thinking of. We know from this episode that Battler, the one we know, is not Asumu's son. However, Asumu had a child. What happened to this child? What if he/she purposely decided to take some sort of revenge on the whole Ushiromiya family, and have Battler suffer the most out of it always by keeping him for the last "twilight" murder? An other thing: have we been told that there are 17 living human beings on the island, or is that there are 17 "living identities" on the island? I'm asking this because as a matter of fact if Asumu's "child" is on the island he/she might be using the same identity as Battler, both going by the same name. Two different beings sharing the same name. That would also explain how it's possible for Battler to "die" at the end of EP4. Is it suicide? It can't be. Homicide? Ushiromiya Battler kills Ushiromiya Battler. However, that would still leave one living "Battler" on the island, but we could say that this Battler could throw that identity and embrace a new one, therefore definitivelt killing "Ushiromiya Battler". Tricky. I can't recall during Episode 4 if it was asked whether there were any leaving beings left after "Ushiromiya Battler"'s death or not. That would be helpful to understand if I'm on the right track or if I'm completely off.

Anyway, that's why I think that 1129 could be a date. It could either be the birthday of Asumu's Battler, or it could be the day of Asumu's death.

It's clear that the person who wrote that number is familiar with Battler's personal details, and the fact that specific number combination is used means that the perpetrator wants Battler to recognize it.
As for the question regarding how many people have received that letter containing that number, it makes me think that originally the perpetrator was probably and originally planning to split the Ushiromiya's fortune between the people who served Kinzo (rather than handing it to the Ushiromiya family members), but then something happened and the plans changed.

EP3 Tips on Nanjo somehow made me speculate that, when it says: "Just a little longer and he probably would have been able to return alive. However, in the very end, the witch did not permit that."

This kind of makes me think there was some sort of agreement between some of the people to split Ushiromiya's fortune, but eventually things changed and the plan got altered.

Wasn't it stated in red that Asumu's Battler is dead? I could be wrong.

Also how did Ange die? Her name was at the end as being dead, but I can't remember how it happened. And did anyone else think it was exceedingly obvious that someone was shooting at Kasumi et al. and not that the stakes were killing them? Especially since they noted exploding sounds as they did it.
Ange may have done it herself also since earlier the stakes said that they can only kill for her if she instigates it or whatever, and then she imagines the stakes doing it in her place. Anyway, the new EP was confusing as ever, but that's how we like it, right? :P

[Klashikari]

It was never stated. We don't even know that Battler's gender nor their whereabouts.

And yes, we already speculated that Amakusa was sniping Kasumi's cronies.

[Jan-Poo]

I wonder if the past red truths including Battler as subject were referring to the Battler we know. Hell I hope this is the case... I'd be quite pissed if the witch pulled such a trick.

[Ikth7]

Originally Posted by Shinndou

It's been a while since I played EP4 but last night I've been casually thinking about it so I wanted to be sure of something first. Could anyone remind me how many people received that letter with the bank account number, besides Nanjo's son and Kumasawa's son?

In addition to what other's have said, Eva had the number but as far as I know, did not have a key. She wrote it down off the door when they first found it, but I'm not sure if she could make use of it after leaving the island.

[rogerpepitone]

Spoiler for the letters:

If the police knew about the letters, then they would have had a good break; they could have gotten information from the bank officials. Additionally, the Witch Hunters would have found out by now. Ootsuki probably would have mentioned it. Any letters that failed to reach a recipient even on the return address probably would have gotten to the police.

Also, the letter was postmarked Oct 3, the same day Ange got sick. Whoever sent them could have known about her sickness and that she wouldn't be on the island.

They were mailed from Niijima. Most of the characters didn't get to Niijima until the 4th, so the mailer was probably a regular resident of Rokkenjima.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

We only know for sure: Nanjo's son, Kumasawa's son, Ange. It is hinted that there are many other people that received the same letter, but we aren't told anything about that.

As for the red truth:

Spoiler for ep4 tea party:

There are no more than 17 humans existing on this island!! This includes an 18th person. In other words, no 18th person X exists!! This applies to all games!!!

It says "human" (I guess it's "人間").

I'm officially confused @_@

Spoiler for EP 4, EP 3:

If that's really true then the red truth Beato gave us in EP 3 was a lie. She said there were no more than 18 people on the island but now it's 17. Unless she included Kinzo into the pool of 18, there should be no way what she said in EP 3 is true.

Also, something else I noticed after thinking about twilights in the game. Going back to my notes on twilights for all games I realized something regarding Krauss and Kyrie. For some reason they always die on the same twilight or after one another.

EP 1: Both died 1st twilight
EP 2: Both died 1st twilight
EP 3: Kyrie dies 6th twilight, Krauss dies 7th twilight

Spoiler for EP 4 spoilers:

Although we don't know for sure who died first through the anti-fantasy perspective, in the game Krauss dies and then Kyrie dies.

I may be over analyzing but it just seems odd how they die right after one another or on the 1st twilight together.

[Squirrellord]

Why is there a problem with what she said in episode 3?
There are no more than 18 people on the island = Anything 19 and above is impossible
There are no more than 17 people on the island = Anything 18 and above is impossible

We could start out at "There are no more than 100 people on the island", and it'd still be true. There are no more than 18 in any game, because there's 17 (if not less)

[Orophin]

Originally Posted by Marion

I'm officially confused @_@

Spoiler for EP 4, EP 3:

If that's really true then the red truth Beato gave us in EP 3 was a lie. She said there were no more than 18 people on the island but now it's 17. Unless she included Kinzo into the pool of 18, there should be no way what she said in EP 3 is true.

How was it a lie? She never said that there was exactly 18 persons on the island, she said that there was at most 18 persons.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Squirrellord

Why is there a problem with what she said in episode 3?
There are no more than 18 people on the island = Anything 19 and above is impossible
There are no more than 17 people on the island = Anything 18 and above is impossible

We could start out at "There are no more than 100 people on the island", and it'd still be true. There are no more than 18 in any game, because there's 17 (if not less)

Ahh I see. It's wordplay :U Silly semantics </3

[Renall]

The distinction is important, since the red text is always true. If Beatrice says "there are four people on this island!" she's stuck with that, because she's just given away how many there are.

"No more than" X means she always has the option to reduce it. Well, until she can't...

[Jan-Poo]

Well we know they can't be less than 15 persons unless Battler's perspective is unreliable. 15 is highest number of people found at the same place at the same time throughout the various episodes.

[blitz1/2]

Can it be possible that Asumu really didn't "physically" die?

I think (again, a wild theory) think that Asumu is Beatrice (at least we have our A-virus). It could be that: Asumu "died" as a human, and reborn as a witch. In her times, she must have travelled through many kakera, totalling up to 1000 years, similar to Rika.

Because I still have my thoughts, with Lambda threatening Beatrice to return her as a shabby human as before.

And for Battler, in a way, was not born of Asumu-Beatrice, but was born when Asumu was a human. Again, wild theory/

[hodil]

If Asumu knew what her daughter was going thru, she would shoot herself with the one winged eagle staff.

Maybe...Just Maybe... there are more dead people amongst the 17.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by hodil

If Asumu knew what her daughter was going thru, she would shoot herself with the one winged eagle staff.

Maybe...Just Maybe... there are more dead people amongst the 17.

Daughter XD? The Battler is a Woman theory lol.

I think if Kyrie found out she would probably snap or something and just mow her down with all the guns she can find |D;

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by hodil

If Asumu knew what her daughter was going thru, she would shoot herself with the one winged eagle staff.

Maybe...Just Maybe... there are more dead people amongst the 17.

A human/witch/spirit of hate can be a dreadful thing.

But one can imagine...

Battler: Kyrie-san told me that you killed my Mother!

Beatrice: No, I AM your mother (if you want, highlight in red)

Battler: No, that can't be true.

Beatrice: Search your feelings, you know it is true!

(Battler flashes back to the games, torture by Stakes, being screwed in the mind, etc). Battler spits.

Beatrice:.....NO, not those!

Battler: (sarcasm) Ok, mom.

Beatrice: So how did you enjoy your mother's love lessons? And your future fiancees?

Battler: Huh?

Beatrice causes the stakes to appear.

Battler finally understands: You mean, all that bondage was education for my future marriage?! And you want me to marry a non-human?!

Beatrice (with big smile): YESSS!

Battler: No.

[MeoTwister5]

Okay I just saw Ronove and Virgilia get summoned as furniture by Kinzo. My head is officialy waste sludge by now. Also, did they just hint that they know of meta Battler's game with Beato?

How far in am I?