Oda Nobuna no Yabou [Light Novel]

[Sumeragi]

It's 第六天の魔王 (Devil King of the Sixth Heaven), the king of devils, who dwells in the highest or the sixth heaven of the world of desire.

[rantaid]

yep. as sumeragi said. it is about buddhism. perhaps it is the conqueror of maara.

[tarmade]

Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx

Yeah I think I am going to enjoy that as well. I think that is close to the end of volume 4. Majority of the parts is Saru defending the flanks of the retreat so we will finally get to see him in action when he is in command, then we got Nobuna being the Demon Queen or Maou (I always wonder how did the Japanese decided on that word, wouldn't Devil be more appropriate), and the character relationship progression.

Nope... u're gonna see that in the chap of trial of Mitsuhide... A entire chapter named after that cave event... HAHA...

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by tarmade

Nope... u're gonna see that in the chap of trial of Mitsuhide... A entire chapter named after that cave event... HAHA...

Must be quite the chapter then, I am looking forward to it. I got to admit however, in the anime they sort of made Nobuna stupid for attacking Asakura clan without explaining, the details you translated gives us a much better understanding of Nobuna's ability as a General.

[tarmade]

the real reason i start translating Nobuna is becoz the anime did an injustice to it... Trying to cram so much things in a 13ep anime? Come on!!! Not even the directors during 5 or 6 yrs back has the confidence to bring the feel of the LN to the anime with 26episodes...

I want to let every Nobuna fan and hopefully other people know that Nobuna isn't like those animes like Ikkitousen or Koihime musou... Real wars, real strategies are in there with much better story and character development... The anime did not show that...

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by tarmade

the real reason i start translating Nobuna is becoz the anime did an injustice to it... Trying to cram so much things in a 13ep anime? Come on!!! Not even the directors during 5 or 6 yrs back has the confidence to bring the feel of the LN to the anime with 26episodes...

I want to let every Nobuna fan and hopefully other people know that Nobuna isn't like those animes like Ikkitousen or Koihime musou... Real wars, real strategies are in there with much better story and character development... The anime did not show that...

True, also due to being an unknown at the time as a Light Novel so it couldn't get a better budget. I like what is shown thus far, Nobuna is a lot smarter than she looks. I am surprise to find out that actually she has brown hair but she seems to be blonde base off illustrations.

[rantaid]

real strategies?

well actually in anime or even in ln it was already shown the cause of nobuna invading asakura. for asakura yoshikage did not send any envoy to the newly established shogun imagawa to pay obeissance. this was seen as disrespect to house of yamato.

that much already justified reason

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by rantaid

real strategies?

well actually in anime or even in ln it was already shown the cause of nobuna invading asakura. for asakura yoshikage did not send any envoy to the newly established shogun imagawa to pay obeissance. this was seen as disrespect to house of yamato.

that much already justified reason

Well, that would be a reasonable reason for any Daimyo, but this is Nobuna. Not coming to show respect is not enough for her to go and destroy them. She been ridiculed for many years by many advisers in her clan, her brother, and her own mother. Nobuna thought ahead that this isn't just something of disrespect, it meant an intent that they were not going to to go along with Nobuna anyhow and by defeating the Asakura will pave way for other conquests and protection of her land.

We already touch on Nobuna's mother, but now that part is translated. So how do we feel about Tsuchida Gozen (Nobuna's mother)?

[rantaid]

nobuna's mother ? is she really matter? her issue is as important as Cao Cao's eunuch ancestry background in ROTK.

no. this is not about paying respect to nobuna. it is toward shogun imagawa yoshimoto who was acknowledge by the house of yamato and by himiko herself (who is equivalent to the Tenno of imperial house). to not pay respect to shogun is to not respect the Tenno. this is what they meant as sonno joi.

Oda Nobuna place herself as the minister of justice. she is not directly the shogun herself, just her right hand man (though de facto she controlled the court and the shogun's action)

[tarmade]

not much is known about her mother... Deep in her heart, Nobuna still wish for reconciliation as can be seen in her dream that she wan her mother to give her well wishes for her marriage with Yoshiharu...

She eventually gave up and proceed to "kill" Nagamasa and drinking from his golden skull... Add this to the fact that Nobuna gave the territory of Omi to Yoshiharu instead to her brother which is the husband of Nagamasa... Her mother think of all this as a betrayal and never said a word to Nobuna anymore... It seems that their relationship has totally broken down...

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by tarmade

not much is known about her mother... Deep in her heart, Nobuna still wish for reconciliation as can be seen in her dream that she wan her mother to give her well wishes for her marriage with Yoshiharu...

She eventually gave up and proceed to "kill" Nagamasa and drinking from his golden skull... Add this to the fact that Nobuna gave the territory of Omi to Yoshiharu instead to her brother which is the husband of Nagamasa... Her mother think of all this as a betrayal and never said a word to Nobuna anymore... It seems that their relationship has totally broken down...

If you think about, what is the Gozen complaining about. If Sagara didn't save Nobukatsu hild in volume 1, Tsuchida would have gotten his head as a present from Nobuna. Also, Sagara can actually manage a country while Nobukatsu doesn't, all he is concern about is bringing beautiful women into Omi which doesn't sound bad for the males in Omi, but he doesn't understand trade, economics, and certainly not war.

Yes rantaid I know she isn't a big character or even a supporting character. What I was getting to was how much of an impact did Tsuchida have on Nobuna both positively and negatively. For discussion reasons, being creative and putting insight of ones' mind is essential for discussion.

[tarmade]

she dun see it as we do... what her mother sees is... there is this eccentric child who desecrate her father's funeral, saying things like there is no gods in this world...

den she had a very cruel and crazy power struggle with her brother which she won in the end... And that is when her mother is supporting Nobukatsu to win out...

From then on, she dislikes Nobuna and had no intention to change her opinion... Like what i translated, her mother isn't as smart as Mitsuhide's mother...

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by tarmade

she dun see it as we do... what her mother sees is... there is this eccentric child who desecrate her father's funeral, saying things like there is no gods in this world...

den she had a very cruel and crazy power struggle with her brother which she won in the end... And that is when her mother is supporting Nobukatsu to win out...

From then on, she dislikes Nobuna and had no intention to change her opinion... Like what i translated, her mother isn't as smart as Mitsuhide's mother...

Was it already noted how much Nobuna loved her father, didn't it seems strange that no one even her own mother felt there was something wrong with her behavior. Since she loved her father so much it should have come to everyone's head that the way Nobuna was acting was much more than a childish tantrum. Unless, everyone cannot read the mood.

[rantaid]

unfortunatelt nobuyuki/nobukatsu just was not as tallented or aspiring person.

it is pity that hirate who comitted seppuku was barely mentioned before.

[tarmade]

yes, we know Nobuna loves her father alot... But does her father loves her back the same amt? I gonna say "arguable" Her father isn't at home most of the time... And when he is back, he does wat a normal busy father does which is care about his children...

Im not say he doesn't love Nobuna... but wat i meant is, he showers them with the same affection. And, the ancient families are different from now... Want to know how they are, watch some chinese dramas about life in the royal palace. How the different concubines fight with each other and how the children all want to show they are the better son...

It's all politics...

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by rantaid

unfortunatelt nobuyuki/nobukatsu just was not as tallented or aspiring person.

it is pity that hirate who comitted seppuku was barely mentioned before.

That is surprising too, there should have been much more turmoil in Nobuna when Sagara first met her. Hirate had a big impact on Nobunaga's life unless with Sagara arriving that history has less impact.

I expecting Gozen o be more understanding of her daughter. She thought of her as a fool, yet Nobuna was a being ahead of her time. It doesn't take intelligent to believe in your daughter, its takes faith. It sounded like Gozen didn't have faith in Nobuna. Oh its 12 in the morning got to go.

[tarmade]

LOL!!! You are acting like Mitsuhide who has been bathed by motherly affection from young...

Put it this way, a son that is obedient and often goes to you to nurture good relationships...

and a daughter who acts her way, despite you telling her off many times... and then not acting the obedient daughter and mix around with the namban people all the time...

It's not strange that Nobuna's mother support Nobukatsu... And from then on, it's a slippery way down... Nobuna desecrate her father's funeral, the power stuggle...

[rantaid]

on is based on filial piety while the other self reserving righteousness.

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by tarmade

LOL!!! You are acting like Mitsuhide who has been bathed by motherly affection from young...

Put it this way, a son that is obedient and often goes to you to nurture good relationships...

and a daughter who acts her way, despite you telling her off many times... and then not acting the obedient daughter and mix around with the namban people all the time...

It's not strange that Nobuna's mother support Nobukatsu... And from then on, it's a slippery way down... Nobuna desecrate her father's funeral, the power stuggle...

No, not necessarily bathed by motherly affection just supported by a mother. Nobuna saw her father's death as a time of great loss of power since there will be clan advisers acting solely for themselves, branch families who was once under rule will desire a chance to climb up the ladder of power, and more disputes since the once in charge is gone. Gozen, being a Noble, she should already know what will befall once her husband has died. Gozen for not understanding Nobuna relationship with the Namban people I think come solely by tradition of Japanese culture which Nobuna saw it as a weakness because it allows slow growth while trading and aquiring knowledge of the Namban people will quickly strengthen the country specifically the Omi Provence which was proven true.

[rantaid]

nobuna want to gave deserving promotion to place monkey at the equal position with her. so there is a good excuse for political marriage between her and monkey. this is one possibility because Hashiba Hideyoshi would later be "adopted" by konoe sakihisa and became Fujiwara. Thus legally allowing him to become Kampaku Taiko.

other solution is to betray nobuna and became rival warlord who is in equal footing with nobuna and demanded political marriage.

well though both are plausible but.... the oda clan themselves are formerly vassal clan of the reigning shibata clan of owari who take over the control of province.

There is something confusing.. Oda Nobuna(ga) repeatedly claimed as descendant of Taira (Heike) and used banner of ageha no chou besides the mokko kanmon. why would the author made konoe dispute about this?