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Old 2008-08-08, 00:19   Link #721
Thewanderer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE View Post
perhaps people compare those arcs because of their author(iirc it's Noriyuki Abe) or simply because it's not Kubo's work we are watching right now and back then
I can't see how that should impact anyone's opinion one bit though...
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Old 2008-08-08, 02:06   Link #722
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I don't get why everyone's trying to compare it to the Bount arc, just because they aren't in the manga. The Amagai arc isn't in continuity, the Bount arc is. The two arcs are vastly different.
Er...maybe because that's the only other "Filler season they had" . It would be wrong to compare them to Naruto fillers (Although I am 100% positive they sucked the worst) Since...it's a different show.

The Bounto arc started off terrible. They were just ...for lack of a better word "Fugly!" However once they got to SS...they were really good. Kariya's Doll disappointed the hell out of me. Most of the time the animation was really crappy. Ichigo had to get weaker and dumber, because the filler characters can't be stronger than the manga characters. If they are...then the Manga characters will lose their mystique and look like crap. If they could find a way to do ...that doesn't ruin Ichigo or the Manga characters....I wouldn't mind them.
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Old 2008-08-08, 06:43   Link #723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
Most of the time the animation was really crappy. Ichigo had to get weaker and dumber, because the filler characters can't be stronger than the manga characters. If they are...then the Manga characters will lose their mystique and look like crap. If they could find a way to do ...that doesn't ruin Ichigo or the Manga characters....I wouldn't mind them.
That's why I personally enjoy comedy fillers more, because they don't have to worry about such strength issues. Heck, even the Yamachika baking a cake episode got plenty of giggles from me. Bad or not, it was very memorable....
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Old 2008-08-08, 07:24   Link #724
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I am just asking a question...stop tormenting me filler police san!
... why did u quote ME? my reply was to HayashiTakara at first, then the second to Thewanderer
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Old 2008-08-08, 09:46   Link #725
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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
Er...maybe because that's the only other "Filler season they had" . It would be wrong to compare them to Naruto fillers (Although I am 100% positive they sucked the worst) Since...it's a different show.

The Bounto arc started off terrible. They were just ...for lack of a better word "Fugly!" However once they got to SS...they were really good. Kariya's Doll disappointed the hell out of me. Most of the time the animation was really crappy. Ichigo had to get weaker and dumber, because the filler characters can't be stronger than the manga characters. If they are...then the Manga characters will lose their mystique and look like crap. If they could find a way to do ...that doesn't ruin Ichigo or the Manga characters....I wouldn't mind them.
I don't know where people get all of these invisible filler rules from... they're just episodes that's not from the manga.

The "filler characters can't be stronger than manga characters" thing, wherever it came from, isn't true at all. Those Arrancar in the pre-Hueco Mundo arc(as forgettable as they are) seemed on par with Grimmy's fraccion at the very least. The Arrancar on that mini-arc with Hitsugaya & Matsumoto(with that human shota) appeared to be stronger than Grand Fisher, which is an appropriate comparison considering that neither were menoses. Oh, and Captain Amagai... we haven't seen his Bankai yet, but his Shikai definitely > Byakuya's.

But fwiw, Kariya was pretty disappointing for me too.

And I'm not sure why some are wanting the anime to get back to manga episodes when quite frankly, the manga sucks right now. Yes, even comparing it to the current anime arc.
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Old 2008-08-08, 10:32   Link #726
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so basically you are agreeing that none of the filler characters to date have been stronger than any of the manga characters...

being on par with does not equal stronger than... just as strong as...

the rule is there, especially in fighting shows, because the purpose of the battles is to power up or develop the character. if a power up or development hasnt happened yet in the manga there is no way its ever gonna happen in a filler...

it can expand on whats already known or reinforce a point already made, but rarely will a filler ever add a new layer not introduced by the manga already. and if they do it usually fails or conflicts with later manga development, which pisses people off.

the day the filler episode brings out a new form of bankai or whatever for ichigo without retracting it all later as a dream sequence is the day i stab myself in the eye with a USB plug.

fillers can only reinforce whats already known or at best flush out characters or scenes with inconsequential additions. they cant really add to the storyline.... which is why they are horribly boring most of the time, imo.

Last edited by poptart; 2008-08-08 at 17:44.
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Old 2008-08-08, 10:40   Link #727
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that rule certainly exists, the best example is the beginning of the bounto arc where Ichigo suddenly can't go Bankai anymore -> they artificially lowered his strength, because snake man, the water twins and rainbow shinigami would have been no threat to him.. they just bought time with this move

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Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
I can't see how that should impact anyone's opinion one bit though...
eh, what's so hard to understand?

It's like I'm asking a friend what he thinks about the Transformer Movie and in response he tells me he doesn't watch crap from Michael Bay.

in Bleach's case we know Noriyuki's Bleach Movies, the Naruto Movies, the Bounto Arc,.. -> enough information to stay away from the Amagai Arc

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Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
Oh, and Captain Amagai... we haven't seen his Bankai yet, but his Shikai definitely > Byakuya's.
oh please, as much as I like Amagai's charakter, his shikai looks stupid, especially the hook and the muffler/turbocharger.. not only is Byakuya's better, I guess everyone's is ah ok, Omaeda's probably not
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Old 2008-08-08, 11:06   Link #728
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... why did u quote ME? my reply was to HayashiTakara at first, then the second to Thewanderer
I meant to put LOL...MY BAD
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Old 2008-08-08, 17:52   Link #729
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Originally Posted by poptart View Post
so basically you are agreeing that none of the filler characters to date have been stronger than any of the manga characters...

being on par with does not equal stronger than... just as strong as...
What? Most of those examples pointed out that the anime characters I used as examples are most likely stronger. Don't put words in my mouth.

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Originally Posted by poptart View Post
the rule is there, especially in fighting shows, because the purpose of the battles is to power up or develop the character. if a power up or development hasnt happened yet in the manga there is no way its ever gonna happen in a filler...

it can expand on whats already known or reinforce a point already made, but rarely will a filler ever add a new layer not introduced by the manga already. and if they do it usually fails or conflicts with later manga development, which pisses people off.

the day the filler episode brings out a new form of bankai or whatever for ichigo without retracting it all later as a dream sequence is the day i stab myself in the eye with a USB plug.

fillers can only reinforce whats already known or at best flush out characters or scenes with inconsequential additions. they can really add to the storyline.... which is why they are horribly boring most of the time, imo.
Again, being anime original don't have a thing to do with anything you're talking about. The only reason it wouldn't have say a new powerup is because it takes place in between manga chapters. Anything that takes place at an earlier time can't reveal a new powerup because it takes place in the "past". Look at a certain recent manga arc(not going into details, this is an anime thread after all)... it couldn't show anything new because it took place in the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE View Post
that rule certainly exists, the best example is the beginning of the bounto arc where Ichigo suddenly can't go Bankai anymore -> they artificially lowered his strength, because snake man, the water twins and rainbow shinigami would have been no threat to him.. they just bought time with this move
What are you talking about, "artificially"? He couldn't go Bankai, it wasn't fake at all. Where does that logic come from?

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Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE View Post
eh, what's so hard to understand?

It's like I'm asking a friend what he thinks about the Transformer Movie and in response he tells me he doesn't watch crap from Michael Bay.

in Bleach's case we know Noriyuki's Bleach Movies, the Naruto Movies, the Bounto Arc,.. -> enough information to stay away from the Amagai Arc
That don't have anything to do with it. The 2007 TF movie is set in an alternate TF universe from G1, the Unicron Trilogy, or any of the cartoons for that matter. The fact is that the Bount arc is set in the same continuity as the manga episodes. Everything that happened in it should be treated as in continuity with the rest of the episodes. The Amagai arc however, is set in an alternate universe, thus has it's own timeline and won't impact the mainstream continuity at all.

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oh please, as much as I like Amagai's charakter, his shikai looks stupid, especially the hook and the muffler/turbocharger.. not only is Byakuya's better, I guess everyone's is ah ok, Omaeda's probably not
Might I point out that Ichigo pwned Byakuya's Shikai HARD with Getsuga... while Amagai actually repelled it. Sure it's not the best looking Shikai, but it's pretty strong.



I can't stress this enough. Judging an anime original before watching it solely based on the fact that it's not in the manga is wrong, period. Just as saying all these bad things about them while claiming that it's BECAUSE they're anime original(or filler, whatever) is even more wrong. If they're bad, it's not because they're not from the manga.
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Old 2008-08-08, 19:26   Link #730
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I meant to put LOL...MY BAD
oh... ok, lol
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Old 2008-08-08, 20:13   Link #731
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What? Most of those examples pointed out that the anime characters I used as examples are most likely stronger. Don't put words in my mouth.
no need to put words in your mouth... by not giving any filler character to date that has been STRONGER THAN than any current character from the manga and only refering to them as being equal to the characters you basically proved the point that filler characters cant be stronger than the real characters...

now if you have an instance where there is a filler character that was STRONGER THAN any of the real characters i'd love to hear it... as i tend to forget the filler episodes there is a strong chance that you are correct on this...

i am mean proven to be stronger through action in the anime... not a guess or conclusions or opinions. i'm talking asskickery proof...

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Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
Again, being anime original don't have a thing to do with anything you're talking about. The only reason it wouldn't have say a new powerup is because it takes place in between manga chapters. Anything that takes place at an earlier time can't reveal a new powerup because it takes place in the "past". Look at a certain recent manga arc(not going into details, this is an anime thread after all)... it couldn't show anything new because it took place in the past.
actually it really does... if the filler episodes were truly apart of this "anime continuity" or whatever then they should have license to add new layers to the overall story in a significant way. not just comedic sidekicks in the form of smart mouthed stuffed animals, not just rehash old plot points and development, and not dumb down characters to avoid altering the original storyline.

they never have, and never will, revel a new power up or character development because their would story is inconsequential to the original storyline. you could remove the whole bount filler arc and not have anything missing from the original story.

just because the filler arc happened in the past does not negate the fact that it has ample opportunity to alter and add to the original story if indeed it had anything to do with it... which it doesnt. there are plenty of characters whoes pasts we dont know that could have been brought to life if not for the fact that fillers are not made to bring anything new to the table...

they are meant to kill time till things can get back to the original story... fact
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Old 2008-08-08, 20:38   Link #732
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Originally Posted by poptart View Post
no need to put words in your mouth... by not giving any filler character to date that has been STRONGER THAN than any current character from the manga and only refering to them as being equal to the characters you basically proved the point that filler characters cant be stronger than the real characters...

now if you have an instance where there is a filler character that was STRONGER THAN any of the real characters i'd love to hear it... as i tend to forget the filler episodes there is a strong chance that you are correct on this...

i am mean proven to be stronger through action in the anime... not a guess or conclusions or opinions. i'm talking asskickery proof...
I think I know what you're getting at...

And the anime is behind the manga. Every character in the anime is weaker than the manga version simply because the manga is in "the future". It don't have anything to do with being an anime original or not.

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Originally Posted by poptart View Post
actually it really does... if the filler episodes were truly apart of this "anime continuity" or whatever then they should have license to add new layers to the overall story in a significant way. not just comedic sidekicks in the form of smart mouthed stuffed animals, not just rehash old plot points and development, and not dumb down characters to avoid altering the original storyline.
That don't matter. The Bount arc is part of normal anime continuity, like it or not. If it wasn't, the modsoul trio wouldn't exist after it ended, nor would Kariya be in Ichigo's daydream sequence when he was in hollow mode.

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Originally Posted by poptart View Post
they never have, and never will, revel a new power up or character development because their would story is inconsequential to the original storyline. you could remove the whole bount filler arc and not have anything missing from the original story.
You simply don't know that. Or am I missing an official announcement proving your claim?

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Originally Posted by poptart View Post
just because the filler arc happened in the past does not negate the fact that it has ample opportunity to alter and add to the original story if indeed it had anything to do with it... which it doesnt. there are plenty of characters whoes pasts we dont know that could have been brought to life if not for the fact that fillers are not made to bring anything new to the table...
The anime originals bring plenty to the table... namely their own storyline. There's nothing that states that they must follow these imaginary rules you're spewing out.

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Originally Posted by poptart View Post
they are meant to kill time till things can get back to the original story... fact
What they're "meant" for is completely irrelevant. Enjoy them or dislike them for their content.
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Old 2008-08-08, 21:09   Link #733
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Originally Posted by poptart View Post
no need to put words in your mouth... by not giving any filler character to date that has been STRONGER THAN than any current character from the manga and only refering to them as being equal to the characters you basically proved the point that filler characters cant be stronger than the real characters...

now if you have an instance where there is a filler character that was STRONGER THAN any of the real characters i'd love to hear it... as i tend to forget the filler episodes there is a strong chance that you are correct on this...

i am mean proven to be stronger through action in the anime... not a guess or conclusions or opinions. i'm talking asskickery proof...
Ok I'm an outsider to this debate, so maybe I just don't get this, but how does it matter if they're stronger or not? This is an action anime right? As long as the action is entertaining, does it really matter who's stronger?


Quote:
actually it really does... if the filler episodes were truly apart of this "anime continuity" or whatever then they should have license to add new layers to the overall story in a significant way. not just comedic sidekicks in the form of smart mouthed stuffed animals, not just rehash old plot points and development, and not dumb down characters to avoid altering the original storyline.


they never have, and never will, revel a new power up or character development because their would story is inconsequential to the original storyline. you could remove the whole bount filler arc and not have anything missing from the original story.

just because the filler arc happened in the past does not negate the fact that it has ample opportunity to alter and add to the original story if indeed it had anything to do with it... which it doesnt. there are plenty of characters whoes pasts we dont know that could have been brought to life if not for the fact that fillers are not made to bring anything new to the table...
There are plenty of anime series out there that large parts of don't advance to storyline or lead to character development, but those parts appeared in the manga as well. Would these count as filler episodes? What about episodes in these filler arcs that develop original characters or advance the plot within the arc? Are they really fillers?

Quote:
they are meant to kill time till things can get back to the original story... fact
I'd think they intend them to be somewhat entertaining as well. Just enjoy it for what it is.
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Old 2008-08-08, 21:22   Link #734
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What are you talking about, "artificially"? He couldn't go Bankai, it wasn't fake at all. Where does that logic come from?.
That was artificial...it was fake.
Ichigo can use Bankai anywhere...Period. His not being from SS didn't make a difference. Besides once Isshin was revealed to be a Shinigami. The logic behind his not being able to use bankai...became illogical
Not only was it fake...The Bounto arc confused some people. Also it made Ichigo weak as a kitten. Even Getsuga Tenshou came out in tiny little blasts i. e. Episode 82...Zangetsu was deformed and Getsuga Tenshou couldn't even make a dent in a steel girder. When it previously turned the surrounding landscape into a replica of the Grand Canyon, when used.

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Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
Might I point out that Ichigo pwned Byakuya's Shikai HARD with Getsuga... while Amagai actually repelled it. Sure it's not the best looking Shikai, but it's pretty strong.
.
Might I point out...that's a filler. No such thing ever took place. You can't compare Amagai vs Ichigo to Byakuya vs Ichigo. Only one of them really happened.

Thus Byakuya>Amagai...

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Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
I can't stress this enough. Judging an anime original before watching it solely based on the fact that it's not in the manga is wrong, period.
I watch them then I judge them. I don't expect them to be bad....it just so happens they usually are.
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Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
Just as saying all these bad things about them while claiming that it's BECAUSE they're anime original(or filler, whatever) is even more wrong. If they're bad, it's not because they're not from the manga.
You know there are some of us that do not like plot deviations. Some of us like the original story. (That's why most books that are turned into movies are as good as the book) Unless it's as good as (on par) with the original storyline. If it isn't...<--we have that reaction.

I watch the dub (When I am in mood for self-torture) only because I can't compare it to the sub without watching it. So far from the glimpses of this arc that I seen...It doesn't look too promising
I am going to watch this entire Arc. I am a Bleach Otaku. I am just in no rush to do so. I can't say if they are bad or not... not yet.

I will say this...from what I hear and raws I watched...The Manga still kicks the Anime's ass.

If the arc is good...as the Manga. I will be the first to say so.
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Old 2008-08-08, 21:41   Link #735
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That was artificial...it was fake.
Ichigo can use Bankai anywhere...Period. His not being from SS didn't make a difference. Besides once Isshin was revealed to be a Shinigami. The logic behind his not being able to use bankai...became illogical
Not only was it fake...The Bounto arc confused some people. Also it made Ichigo weak as a kitten. Even Getsuga Tenshou came out in tiny little blasts i. e. Episode 82...Zangetsu was deformed and Getsuga Tenshou couldn't even make a dent in a steel girder. When it previously turned the surrounding landscape into a replica of the Grand Canyon, when used.
It wasn't "fake" at all. Ichigo couldn't use Bankai in the real world, the Bount arc established that. There's nothing to prove otherwise at all, especially your "because it's filler" argument, which don't disprove anything.

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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
Might I point out...that's a filler. No such thing ever took place. You can't compare Amagai vs Ichigo to Byakuya vs Ichigo. Only one of them really happened.

Thus Byakuya>Amagai...
You're wrong... it "never took place" in the main timeline because it's an alternate continuity, not because it's anime original. And we don't know that Byakuya > Amagai yet at all, we haven't seen Amagai's full power yet. Thus all conclusions that state that Byakuya > Amagai stems purely from your bias against anime original arcs.

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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
I watch them then I judge them. I don't expect them to be bad....it just so happens they usually are.
In your opinion.

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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
You know there are some of us that do not like plot deviations. Some of us like the original story. (That's why most books that are turned into movies are as good as the book) Unless it's as good as (on par) with the original storyline. If it isn't...<--we have that reaction.

I watch the dub (When I am in mood for self-torture) only because I can't compare it to the sub without watching it. So far from the glimpses of this arc that I seen...It doesn't look too promising
I am going to watch this entire Arc. I am a Bleach Otaku. I am just in no rush to do so. I can't say if they are bad or not... not yet.

I will say this...from what I hear and raws I watched...The Manga still kicks the Anime's ass.

If the arc is good...as the Manga. I will be the first to say so.
...and youve seen the recent manga chapters yet? IMO, the anime is vastly superior than what's taking place in the manga right now... and no, I'm not just saying that because I'm defensing the anime.
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Old 2008-08-08, 21:59   Link #736
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Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
It wasn't "fake" at all. Ichigo couldn't use Bankai in the real world, the Bount arc established that. There's nothing to prove otherwise at all, especially your "because it's filler" argument, which don't disprove anything.

.
Eating chicken right now. THAT IS NOT TRUE. HE NEVER LOST THE POWER OF BANKAI. The reasaon established was because he was in SS . Since he wasn't real Shinigami. It would make sense he couldn't use it right? How is that "continuity" when HE WAS IN FACT A PUREBLOOD Shinigami.?! So that whole "Not of SS" is conflicting with the FACTS. That's why its a FILLER! It's fake! It's not real! It's not credible. It can't add to the story...only HURT IT. Or have no effect on it at all...
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Old 2008-08-08, 22:07   Link #737
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Eating chicken right now. THAT IS NOT TRUE. HE NEVER LOST THE POWER OF BANKAI. The reasaon established was because he was in SS . Since he wasn't real Shinigami. It would make sense he couldn't use it right? How is that "continuity" when HE WAS IN FACT A PUREBLOOD Shinigami.?! So that whole "Not of SS" is conflicting with the FACTS. That's why its a FILLER! It's fake! It's not real! It's not credible. It can't add to the story...only HURT IT. Or have no effect on it at all...
Woh, calm down No need to get upset from an anime...

He never lost the power of Bankai in the manga. He did lose that power in the anime though, and you can't deny that.

Ichigo isn't a "pureblood Shinigami" because he's still alive. It's not like Shinigamis are just another race or species, they're spirits who have the power to lead pluses to Soul Society. By your logic, Yuzu and Karin are pureblooded Shinigami too
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Old 2008-08-09, 00:05   Link #738
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I think I know what you're getting at...

And the anime is behind the manga. Every character in the anime is weaker than the manga version simply because the manga is in "the future". It don't have anything to do with being an anime original or not.
that doesnt make any sense... you cant say that the anime has its own continuity then say the reason none of the filler characters are stronger than the real characters is because its behind in the manga

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That don't matter. The Bount arc is part of normal anime continuity, like it or not. If it wasn't, the modsoul trio wouldn't exist after it ended, nor would Kariya be in Ichigo's daydream sequence when he was in hollow mode.
i really think it should matter... whenever you have to dumb something down to make it work, it just seems trite and well... dumb.

as for the trio i dont mind them sticking around as they are pretty much forgettable in there uselessness in the storyline... nothing like stuff animal comic relief D:

and that other guy.... well... i forgot all about him so i really cant comment on him. sorry *shrugs* i just remember saying "who the hell is that" when i saw him.

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You simply don't know that. Or am I missing an official announcement proving your claim?
mmm... true... that obviously was me speaking as the mouth piece of kubo

let me rephrase that... i HOPE TO GOD they dont ever revel a new power in the fillers as i dont want to stab my eye out with the USB cord

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Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
The anime originals bring plenty to the table... namely their own storyline. There's nothing that states that they must follow these imaginary rules you're spewing out.
their own storyline so far has been the same storylines as before in terms of character development and power ups. making them useless to me. at least with the orginal story fluff pieces i learn something new about the character. cant say the same about the fillers

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What they're "meant" for is completely irrelevant. Enjoy them or dislike them for their content.
how is what they are meant for irrelevant?? if a story was meant to make me laugh but it doesnt... that seems pretty relevant. if a story was just thrown in to fill space and isnt meant to be taken so seriously... that seems pretty relevant.

there "content" is what i have a problem with as 9/10 times i'm bored to tears looking at bastardized versions of characters i like and luke warm, watered down plots that are failed to go no where because they cant do anything to change the original storyline.

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Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
Ok I'm an outsider to this debate, so maybe I just don't get this, but how does it matter if they're stronger or not? This is an action anime right? As long as the action is entertaining, does it really matter who's stronger?
you do know that by nature of it being a fighting anime somebody has to be stronger...

and for it to be a good fighting anime they should at least be significantly stronger than the opponent for the journey to get better and stronger to be interesting.

though if all you are looking for is people punching stuff then i guess that doesnt matter *shrugs*


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
There are plenty of anime series out there that large parts of don't advance to storyline or lead to character development, but those parts appeared in the manga as well. Would these count as filler episodes? What about episodes in these filler arcs that develop original characters or advance the plot within the arc? Are they really fillers?
how do define develop? to me i see development as add a NEW layer to the character either by showing a side previously not shown be it a softer side, a humorous side, dark side etc. or by expanding on old information with NEW information, like rounding out how a scar was recieved or how a relationship fell apart that somehow ties back into the story to advance the plot line

not random, matsumoto likes to shop or yumichika likes tasty cakes

not making ishida into some emo "head bandge ofnobody understands" wearing love struck fool that conflicts completely with his character development so far. or making renji into some bumbling idiot in an attempt to up the comedy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
I'd think they intend them to be somewhat entertaining as well. Just enjoy it for what it is.
i dont enjoy them because of what they are... short of the hitsugaya soccer episode (because i love Paku and Rie together) and the kendo one (cause i love when ikkaku is screaming and hitting things) i have yet to enjoy any of them... and so i dont watch them for the most part. i tune in when i think my favorite seiyuu or character will have a big part and then go back to waiting for the real story to start up again.
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Old 2008-08-09, 01:39   Link #739
BleachOD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
Woh, calm down No need to get upset from an anime...
What makes you think I am upset

I think it's no need to get this upset over a filler.

I think you need to take your own advice. You have a a sharp wit and can be really likable. You're a little straight-laced ...but that's cool. However you take this filler thing to personally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
He never lost the power of Bankai in the manga. He did lose that power in the anime though, and you can't deny that.
No I can't deny it. It happened in the anime that's a fact. What is also a fact is...it's not true.(That means it's false) So it in fact is a filler...You can't deny that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
Ichigo isn't a "pureblood Shinigami" because he's still alive. It's not like Shinigamis are just another race or species, they're spirits who have the power to lead pluses to Soul Society
Ichigo is as dead as the rest of them. He just doesn't have to use a gigai. His body doesn't die...because it houses Kon when he's not in it. If not for kon. It would decay...
Urahara severed his chain of fate. Once that happens. You cannot go back to being alive (The only reason Orihime isn't dead. Her chain was not severed)

Ichigo put it best in episode 10, when Keigo asked if he wanted to go see Don Kanonoji
His reply: "No thanks...I am fine just being a zombie".<--that made me laugh.

Ichigo is a "dead man walking."



Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
By your logic, Yuzu and Karin are pureblooded Shinigami too
I didn't say that ...you did


Yes they are pure bloods; on their father's side. One just has more spirit power than the other. You should read the Manga. No question of Karin becoming one...

I said he was a pure blood. . I said the reason he not able to achieve bankai. According to the anime that is because he was not of SS. I said once Isshin was revealed to be a Shinigami. The reasoning behind his not being able to use it because he was not "Originally of SS".... He is a fake Shinigami and he could only use it in SS ....because he was in SS.:upest: Became illogical....Why...


.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
it's not like Shinigamis are just another race or species, they're spirits who have the power to lead pluses to Soul Society
This is where you are confused. "Shinigami" are non corporal beings who are soul balancers. They can be seen by "Human spirits" or Humans with high levels of spirit power.

Shinigami just means "A god of Death aka Death God"

The two worlds are constantly exchange souls. They maintain this balance by escorting souls to SS & Purifying Hollows of the sin they committed as Hollows so they re-enter the life-death-rebirth cycle.

That's a job description. it's not the name of the species

However some humans posses spirit power so they too can become "Shinigami" i.e Rukia .

They are in fact a separate species. In Bleach they are humanoid spirits .they do no consider themselves human. They never say they are human spirits. They say the living or "real" world and theirs exchange souls constantly. Dead means you can't produce life. They possess the power to reproduce. Ichigo is proof of this...

Kubo never said what they were. They are humanoid in appearance and have no problem mating with humans. However Byakuya marveled and Aizen found Ichigo interesting because he'd did things "No Human should have done"
They always use the term "HUMAN" as if they are other than. (human)

Fact is...Ichigo already had his own spirit powers;which were latent. For time he borrowed Rukia's. Then he used his own. You either have spirit power or not. You can't get back something you never had to begin with. He has them because he inherited them naturally.

That's what makes him so unique, He isn't fully human to begin with and now he he's a Human/uknownspirittype/Hollow hybrid-- one who is dead. He's different from all the others. (That's why he's so kick ass) He's not a "Real Shinigami" because he didn't take the course. That' why he's called a "Shinigami Representative"

There is no character with as much potential as he has. Because of that unique combination.

That's why fillers are disliked, because if they are not twisting the original plot...they usually add nothing and instead take away from the "Original Manga storyline" Which makes them fillers...because they don't add anything to the "original story" So they do not count...

That's why most of us manga devotee's skip them.

Last edited by BleachOD; 2008-08-09 at 03:14.
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Old 2008-08-09, 04:50   Link #740
Scep
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I shall enter the filler discussions again@!!! only because nothing else in the bleach forum currently really interests me >_>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
it couldn't show anything new because it took place in the past.
If you're talking about power ups, have you seen
Spoiler for spoiler manga:
No? But could the anime do the same? No. Because the concept of new has nothing to do with the canon timeline. It has to do with whether we have seen it or not. So even if kubo does something in the old, he has the freedom to develop and create his own story and power ups and all that. The filler can't do that. Hitsugaya probably has had thousandyeariceprison for a long time, even when the fillers were doing his fights, he had that skill. Could the anime let him use it?

Ultimately at the very end, it is very probable (yes, that's my opinion. But there is so much hints from previous experiences, 'm only putting in a irregularity probability because the anime isn't finished) that the anime won't deviate from the manga. So the filler characters will play little, or no significance in the actual storyline at all. Sure, the mod souls still exist. What have they done? get kicked around, insert cold humor, but have they done anything concrete? Has any real storyline-important character been defeated by them? No. That's why i don't recognize fillers as canon. It dosen't prove anything just because they exist. Canon material existence is not defined by existence, it's defined by doing something that leaves a mark.
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