[MANGA] Itachi - Hero or Villain? (poll)

[lonewolf777]

Sorry for the double post, folks, just wanted to add a couple of things.

Originally Posted by Shay

Let's not let this thread slide into some sort of greek myth escapade, please.

Agreed. Ancient Greek literature is full of crackpots and perverts. o.o;

Originally Posted by Shay

I think Kishi pulled a fast one on us allowing Itachi to go down without retribution for his acts. I'm not saying he was all out evil but I am saying he was no Sarutobi, or Yondaime*

Well, there was the whole dying without really seeing his whole goal through to the end thing.

Originally Posted by Im_A_MoP

Im sorry, but I don't really understand how Itachi being a hero is in question. Itachi is obviously a hero, at least in regards to konoha. He may have singlehandedly saved konoha from a civil war that may have thrown the balance of power to a point where the uchihas would have taken over or konoha would be so weakened from the internal conflict, that it would be easy for an opposing village to take over. He was following orders, and was loyal to the village until he died.

Well, it's not always heroic to follow orders, especially when those orders are barbaric at best. Certainly, he had good intentions, but the fact that he simply did what he was commanded knowing it was wrong without even really thinking that there might have been a better way than teaming up with the psycho bastard whose been trying to destroy the village since it was established and killing his whole family indicates that there is a less than heroic nature about him, even if it was just to save the village. I'm sure he could have allayed a civil war without killing an entire clan.

Originally Posted by King Lycan

Anti Hero something like Sesshomaru

I can actually see that, although Sesshomaru was shown to be a lot more arrogant than Itachi. Still, there are the similarities - gifted and powerful, innately superior to the younger brother rival (bar the getting his arm cut off by Inu XD); seemingly an enemy, and fighting with the 'good guys' on a whim, but deep down, not being actually fully evil; even helping the little bro without it seeming like he did so. One key difference for me, however, is that Sesshomaru killed people and didn't give a damn, whereas Itachi was always hesitant to do so.
(Lol, this reminds me of a funny picture I saw a while ago. It's a 'big brother contest', and it shows Itachi, Sesshomaru, and Edward Elric from FMA, and each says why they're the best big brother. Sesshy says 'I teach my little brother how to be tough', and Inuyasha gives him a -10; Itachi says 'I teach my little brother valuable life lessons', and Sasuke gives him an 'I'm going to kill you!'; Edward Elric says 'I'm the best', and Alphonse gives him a 10 XDDDDDD)

[noven]

Originally Posted by That Other Ninja

Tragic hero, not unlike Heracles.

Completely agree.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Shay

Let me remind you I am drunk right now and consequently I am probabl not getting my point across as well as I would like.

LMAO, that is clasic Shay!!!

Either way, One thing I agree is that Itachi took duty to an extreme level, maybe alternates existed, everyone has a choice.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Hunter

And the one I feel Kishimoto ended up with : a man who obviously cracked under pressure and went batshit insane.

I don't know if a "batshit insane" person can carry out such a precise plan. Also Itachi has never killed anyone in the present time of the manga, a crazy person that never cracked under pressure and even a moment before dying he smiled at Sasuke, i think calling that "crazy" is a bit too much, should use some different word.

Originally Posted by Hunter

Without even going into the whole political powerplay which doesn't make much sense at the end of the day because Itachi required the help of the guy he thought was actually responsible for the entire mess they were in (but kept his existence a secret!), the fact is that his handle of Sasuke was unbelievably stupid without mentioning uneccessary cruel and worse of all counter-productive to the highest degree. For all intent and purpose Itachi is the most responsible for turning Sasuke into the kind of man he is now.

I have to agree that the a plan that nearly killed Naruto and made Sasuke what he is now is quite crazy. But what were his options? He couldn't carry Sasuke away with himself since he took all the blame instead of the village. He did know that soon he will die because either his sickness kills him or maybe Madara or Pain kill him. So he had to make Sasuke strong enough to defend himself before he dies. Because he did know that Danzou will kill Sasuke when he dies. So i think he believed that his brother is strong enough and will become a hero under pressure. Naruto has become a hero under extreme pressure (Jiraiya, Kakashi killed, Konoha destroyed), but Sasuke failed in this. Anyway, Itachi's overly complicated and bad plan was done by Kishimoto because he needed all these plot twists and chapter cliffhangers

Itachi surely was in a very bad mental state, i think that it's logical to assume that his mental state caused his physical illness. People who carry such a huge burden silently are very often becoming ill, the mental state has always an impact on health.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I don't know if a "batshit insane" person can carry out such a precise plan. Also Itachi has never killed anyone in the present time of the manga, a crazy person that never cracked under pressure and even a moment before dying he smiled at Sasuke, i think calling that "crazy" is a bit too much, should use some different word.

I didn't say I found Itachi dumb, just crazy. Raping Sasuke's mind, forcing him to witness the murder of his family countless time over through Genjutsu, breaking his bones, telling him to kill his best friend, etc. and believing all the while that he is doing him a favor instead of realizing he is creating a potential monster is sheer insanity and that's without talking of his genocidal approach to the Uchiha issue.

I mean seriously, I know my clan is wrongly accused of an awfull crime, I know they are unjustly segregated from their village; I know who actually did it and I'm good enough to hunt him down so let's ask him to help me get ride of my clan exactly as he wished and let's not even mention to anybody that the fucker's still alive because that makes perfect sense!

[Waking_Dreamer]

Okay, I never got this maybe its been explained somewhere else but what was the point of Itachi mind fucking Kakashi and Sasuke? I mean supposedly all this time he was on Konoha's sides so why would he put two of its strongest (future potential for Sasuke) into what would have been a permanent coma!

Also making Sasuke relive his clan's slaughter for what would seem like an eternity, now that wouldnt build up even greater hatred for the act, maybe even to the point of seeking revenge on the Village you allegedly seemed to love...

Didnt think that one through did ya?

[FateAnomaly]

I don't understand why he had to kill his (almost) entire clan. The civil war wouldn't be all that great if 1 guy can just kill all of them anyway. Also he could have just kill the ones involved in the uprising.

[Kafriel]

Originally Posted by FateAnomaly

I don't understand why he had to kill his (almost) entire clan. The civil war wouldn't be all that great if 1 guy can just kill all of them anyway. Also he could have just kill the ones involved in the uprising.

The war would spread to the other nations and the ninja system would crumble, think of it as an act of maintaining peace.

Okay, I never got this maybe its been explained somewhere else but what was the point of Itachi mind fucking Kakashi and Sasuke? I mean supposedly all this time he was on Konoha's sides so why would he put two of its strongest (future potential for Sasuke) into what would have been a permanent coma!

To make them "stronger"

As for me, I voted anti-villain. He remains bad until his death and turns "good" after Tobi's story, but as much as I liked his "Sasuke will be my new light for limitless power" villain theme, he just didn't kill/act enough to be a true villain (see Orochimaru) and obviously wasn't planning on world domination:P

[Shay]

I suppose we still need to see what he gave Naruto as well.

[Alchemist007]

tragic/stupid hero.

[emerjon11]

OMG!! Hero is winning.. as i observe... I think He is never a hero!!!

[ChojinLocke]

I voted for anti hero. He was a hero but in his own way and for his own reasons. He could have acted different way but shouldered his burdain his way. For me anti hero.

One might argue he affected some lives negatively, killing a clan, turning Sasuke evil against him forcing him to kill him, but he also avoided a civil war. Some political leaders take such decisions as well..you could call it the 'second best' solution. And Itachi was no fool. Sasuke's torture was necessary for his plan to save the name Uchiha by elevating his brother through ordeal. A far fetched scenario but still for me anti hero. The only reason he might also be labeled anti villain is because he was with Akatsuki and doing bad deeds after his controversial past. Chaotic neutral character.

[Sir-Nemesis]

Is the best and most complete character in the series

You can't stereotype

[RadiantBeam]

Anti-hero. Like ChojinLocke said, he did things his own way for his own reasons, and chose to shoulder his burden the way he did.

[james0246]

Anti-Hero? No. At best Itachi could be considered a Well Intentioned Extremist (he does despicable things for semi-legitimate reasons), or more likely, as I voted, just an anti-villain (a humanized villain), but not an anti-hero and never a hero.

[Crusader]

I Voted Anti- Villian.

Even though his suppose intentions were suppose to be good, the ends don't justify the means. I cant' say how many people he killed, but the fact that he took a life isn't boding well for him period. He kills his best friend for power, his own power i might add. Slaughters his family, but was totally untruthful about it, which had dire consequences for his baby brother. Even more so that he wasn't truthful and neglected several bits of information in regards to the situation.

If he were so tragic, he could have been honest with his younger brother... and i know this is going to sound Narutoish, but he could have found another way to solve the problem than resorting to murder, but he willingly chose death and an overall path of lies, deceit and treachery. Furthermore he joins a cadre of Evil people, which nothing good would ever have come from that and it didn't

I honestly believe that Itachi was in it for himself and not the greater good of anyone else. Because he doesnt' appear to be like some of the other Akatsuki, i voted him as Anti villian.

[Vindi89]

Originally Posted by james0246

Anti-Hero? No. At best Itachi could be considered a Well Intentioned Extremist (he does despicable things for semi-legitimate reasons), or more likely, as I voted, just an anti-villain (a humanized villain), but not an anti-hero and never a hero.

I agree with James, Itachi can't be considered an Anti-hero. Even after the clan's death he continued to kill to further Akatsuki's goals. Everytime they sealed a beast, they killed the host and he was part of that.

Besides... Batman is an Anti-hero, Itachi is no Batman

[roriconfan]

Ok, this topic is a train wreck. First of all, leave the poor Greek myths alone. Heracles and Odipous fall under the "cursed by fate" trope, as ancient Greeks were fatalists. And please stop believing they were all perverts and paedophiles. They were simply open minded and never considered sex to be evil. This is an off topic remark from a Greek.

Now to the Itachi issue... Itachi is no hero. Heroes do not trick their friends, kill their families and do crimes for 10 years as a pre-planned grand scheme to do the greater good. Heros are very close to lawful good Paladins of the 3rd edition (before the 4th reverts them to just some generic trait of any alignment).

Itachi for the same reason is not a villain. He wanted to help the world. Not conquer or destroy it like some corny American movie villain.

The "other" option makes no sense to me...

So, we are left with anti-hero and anti-villain. I would pick anti-hero but you see, there is this little detail that screws everything in this regard. He killed the Uchiha, thus preventing a war and even stomping Madara's way to immortality. Yet, he was working with him, doing crimes in his name! And even aiming to let Pein create a war monopoly to throw the world into an endless cyrcle of suffering. So, in the end the only thing he managed to do was to secure Danzou's power, yet another super villain.

So, he is not an anti-hero but an anti-villain. He ended up failing to really make a difference. The upcoming war was not prevented, tragedies kept happening and even his fail safe triggers are not working. So, he is just not the worse amongst the villains of the series. He ended up being one of their lakeys without ever joining the Dark Side. The end...

[Haak]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Now to the Itachi issue... Itachi is no hero. Heroes do not trick their friends, kill their families and do crimes for 10 years as a pre-planned grand scheme to do the greater good. Heros are very close to lawful good Paladins of the 3rd edition (before the 4th reverts them to just some generic trait of any alignment).

The definition of heroes is entirely subjective in my opinion. But I do agree with your definition.

[Dains11]

I mean seriously, I know my clan is wrongly accused of an awfull crime, I know they are unjustly segregated from their village; I know who actually did it and I'm good enough to hunt him down so let's ask him to help me get ride of my clan exactly as he wished and let's not even mention to anybody that the fucker's still alive because that makes perfect sense!

Hunter thats hilarious!

On a side note, I don't know if this has been said somewhere in the manga, because I don't remember. But how exactly is the sharingan genetically inherited? I mean, if Sasuke has a son will he have the sharingan also?