Macross Frontier Character Discussion - Ranka Lee

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Mei19

[B][FONT="Century Gothic"]hmm. Why can't someone just post here, share his thoughts about she who must not be named and NOT get a hostile response because it rebukes your POV. The Macross forum already has a bad reputation. Stoppu stoppu. Noone convinces noone's opinion. Waste of time.

Yeah, okay. You are aware that argueing on the internet is the point of forums, right?

[Snowblind]

It is? I thought it was for having rational discussions, sharing information, and talking about common interests... Silly me. :P

[willyvereb]

Originally Posted by Tak

Macross II was a bit difficult to judge because both heroines were actually likable, now, that is despite them being involved in a love pentagon.

See, Ishtar wasn't a naive bunny, and Silvie was a hardcore pilot.

And for the first time in Macross history, Macross II featured a pilot who killed not a single person.

- Tak

Interesting...maybe I really watch it then. Even if I think it's great hypocrisity to not kill anyone in war just because he decided.(I mean Kira Yamato for example...his actions by not killing people indirectly lead to the deaths of others...and even if not he endangered others' life needlessly)

[Snowblind]

Not to spoiler anything, but Hibiki is a pilot for a news channel, not a fighter pilot... so... I think he's allowed to get away with not killing anyone.

Unless you're referring to Silvie, who, as far as I can recall, doesn't have many/any combat scenes. O.o

So it's not an issue of hypocrisy.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Snowblind

It is? I thought it was for having rational discussions, sharing information, and talking about common interests... Silly me. :P

Which is all part of argueing... or do you expect everyone to have the same opinion?

Or let´s just re-phrase "argueing" into "discussing", so that everybody is on the same wave. Discussing why so many people do not like Ranka is a valid topic.

[BanishingBook]

I hope it's alright to say that it wouldn't prove to be an intelligent discussion at all, such that it disavows certain excrements of such a discussion.

I am fine with the Ranka not like topic, but if it's the same as dissing her, which leads to some fans personally growing a disgust with themselves, why bother discussing? Let me make an appeal with all the shippers - both of Ranka and Sheryl, I know you are listening, if the two movies do end this love triangle shenanigan I hope it will be quiet after a day or two here. No more tension and the Sheryl fans have all the right to poke fun at Ranka, but not as an excuse to ricochet frustrations. Keeping it clean of course.

This is all.
~Peace and * Kira~!

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by BanishingBook

I hope it's alright to say that it wouldn't prove to be an intelligent discussion at all, such that it disavows certain excrements of such a discussion.

I am fine with the Ranka not like topic, but if it's the same as dissing her, which leads to some fans personally growing a disgust with themselves, why bother discussing? Let me make an appeal with all the shippers - both of Ranka and Sheryl, I know you are listening, if the two movies do end this love triangle shenanigan I hope it will be quiet after a day or two here. No more tension and the Sheryl fans have all the right to poke fun at Ranka, but not as an excuse to ricochet frustrations. Keeping it clean of course.

This is all.
~Peace and * Kira~!

I think it´s not up to you to pass judgement if the countless discussions we had so far on this board ( which you were not part of ) are "intelligent discussions". In fact, I find what you just said deeply offensive, since you disparaged the intelligence of all the other members who were part of those discussions.

[BanishingBook]

I do not mean to disrespect the intelligence of the other members, magnus, and make no mention of names, but I require discretion, if you motion a discussion that suits to your wants, I am aware of whatnot that has been discussed, not all but enough to notice what those discussions mean to be.

I disagree yes, but I don't demand that I be answered in a fashion that has to culminates into bashing. I make this public because I want things to be civil here.

I don't mind what you mean by offensive, I do not intend to what I said to be offensive. It is enough to catch your serious attention.

To the other people: conscientious discussions please.

And let me clarify magnus, I don't think I disparage the intelligence of such posters, they never get dishearten of course, and they play valid opinions. Valid but offensive. I don't discourage them let me repeat but what follows naysayers is over the top.

I will that there be peace and civility here. That'll be all from me.

*And no, I am not speaking in a serious tone, or else I might be misinterpreted by what I've said.*

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by BanishingBook

I do not mean to disrespect the intelligence of the other members, magnus, and make no mention of names, but I require discretion, if you motion a discussion that suits to your wants, I am aware of whatnot that has been discussed, not all but enough to notice what those discussions mean to be.

I disagree yes, but I don't demand that I be answered in a fashion that has to culminates into bashing. I make this public because I want things to be civil here.

I don't mind what you mean by offensive, I do not intend to what I said to be offensive. It is enough to catch your serious attention.

To the other people: conscientious discussions please.

And let me clarify magnus, I don't think I disparage the intelligence of such posters, they never get dishearten of course, and they play valid opinions. Valid but offensive. I don't discourage them let me repeat but what follows naysayers is over the top.

I will that there be peace and civility here. That'll be all from me.

*And no, I am not speaking in a serious tone, or else I might be misinterpreted by what I've said.*

Okay, seriously, do you post with Google translate? Because what you just said doesn´t make any sense in a grammatical manner. It´s barely understandable gibberish at this point.

Which, I guess, means that you didn´t even understand why your post before this one seemed so offensive. Let´s just let it rest there.

However, discussing the failings of a character does not constitute bashing, but character analysis. I´m sorry that Ranka is so flawed, because it would surely have made the series better if she a.) would have been a real contender in the triangle and b.) not be so obliviously naive as to endanger the whole Frontier fleet.

But what is, is.

After the whole "Ohnogi saved the series from Kawamoris excessive Ranka luuuurve" meme turned out to be completely false, I return to rather agreeing with Crusader on his excellent analysis, which pointed out that Ranka probably was a deconstruction by part of Kawamori on the moe character.

This is where I stand at the moment... I can only hope that Kawamori "DYRL"-ifies Ranka and we get a better character out of it in the movie. Otherwise, Sheryl wins in a landslide, by every possible measure.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Snowblind

Unless you're referring to Silvie, who, as far as I can recall, doesn't have many/any combat scenes. O.o

So it's not an issue of hypocrisy.

Huh?

Bud, she actually led her own elite squadron, which trashed a buttload of Zent pods at the beginning of the show and kept fighting until she was kidnapped. She later bailed out of an enemy battleship while rescuing that schmuck of a reporter single-handed. Later, she went as far as to command the SDF-1 herself alongside Hibiki. No sir, she was involved in lots of action.

- Tak

[wisteria233]

Again if you can't accept a characters negative traits along with their postive then you are not much of a fan. I just saying.

I didn't mean to start a shipping war, I just get seriously peeved when people say things like that, considering the history of Macross. Also the allusions there were applying to Ranka's character. Also I really hate Shoujo romance, particularly one-sided, shallow Shoujo romances. Where the main couple know next to nothing about each other. So Yeah...

Not a really big fan of Macross 2 though something about it I didn't like.

[Yot-chan]

Ooh, discussions about discussions of Ranka...this is all getting so meta...

Saying who you like and don't like...of course that part of an internet forum. Trying to cinvince other people? THAT'S where the problems start.

I like Ranka. I was disappointed that she got captured in episode 24, which meant that she never really came into her own. I've read a lot the "war criminal" and "immature" posts here and elsewhere, but they didn't convince me. They didn't convince other people who like Ranka.

And, often , when people run into that wall, they get more and more frustrated, which leads to belligerence, which REALLY convinces no one.

And since most of the anti-Ranka stuff comes from highly pro-Sheryl people, it's easy to dismiss.

It's an emotional topic for a lot of people here, which makes it something we should all be careful about, and most of us (and I include myself here) have not been as careful as we should be.

Plus, after a while, everyone gets to the point of "Oh, here's justavisitor. We ALL know what he's gonna say. And look! Magnuskn responded to him. Well, I don't even have to READ that one to know his points."

It gets tiresome.

New topics, like "Whose hand was that in the trailer?" or "who sells more, May'n or Megumi?" still seem stale from the get-go, and get increasingly silly.

Now, I'm not sure what the solution is, but I'm pretty sure it involves a little something called "restraint." "Mutual respect" might have a part to play as well.

[magnuskn]

Well, everytime I see another pro-Ranka person trying to make silly excuses for bad behaviour, I notice that my rage reserves still are full enough to point them out.

But, of course, that doesn´t mean I cannot do it in a civil and responsible manner.

Facts are facts, though, and it shouldn´t matter if they come from a supporter of her Galactic Highness or from someone who purports to be neutral. If my factual arguments are instantly dismissed because of my character preference, it only points out that the person dismissing them is biased as well and unwilling to listen to a standpoint besides his/her own. I´ve really tried to always argue my case based on the factual happenings of the show.

One other thing, though. There are few, if any, long discussions complaining about Sheryl, besides stuff like "I didn´t like her from the start and am unable to overcome that first impression!". If one character engenders so little animosity, and the other one so much, one seriously has to question what went wrong in balancing them.

The fact remains, though... Ranka has a long list of serious failings, both in her character and her deeds, which were not adressed even at the end of the series. And still she is held up by some as this paragon of virtue and innocence, who still has a legitimate shot at Alto.

This irks me to no end. And I shall stop here, lest this turns into a two page rant about what exactly makes me so irascible about that.

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Well, everytime I see another pro-Ranka person trying to make silly excuses for bad behaviour, I notice that my rage reserves still are full enough to point them out.

But, of course, that doesn´t mean I cannot do it in a civil and responsible manner.

Facts are facts, though, and it shouldn´t matter if they come from a supporter of her Galactic Highness or from someone who purports to be neutral. If my factual arguments are instantly dismissed because of my character preference, it only points out that the person dismissing them is biased as well and unwilling to listen to a standpoint besides his/her own. I´ve really tried to always argue my case based on the factual happenings of the show.

One other thing, though. There are few, if any, long discussions complaining about Sheryl, besides stuff like "I didn´t like her from the start and am unable to overcome that first impression!". If one character engenders so little animosity, and the other one so much, one seriously has to question what went wrong in balancing them.

The fact remains, though... Ranka has a long list of serious failings, both in her character and her deeds, which were not adressed even at the end of the series. And still she is held up by some as this paragon of virtue and innocense, who still has a legitimate shot at Alto.

This irks me to no end. And I shall stop here, lest this turns into a two page rant about what exactly makes me so irascible about that.

You've hit the nail on the head, I think.

I've been trying for about twenty minutes to write a response that will not be taken the wrong way, and I keep erasing it and starting over. I'll have to type something up and post it later...

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

You've hit the nail on the head, I think.

I've been trying for about twenty minutes to write a response that will not be taken the wrong way, and I keep erasing it and starting over. I'll have to type something up and post it later...

Good. I am sure there is ample way to criticise my way of thinking... although I´ll defend my standpoint.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Well, everytime I see another pro-Ranka person trying to make silly excuses for bad behaviour, I notice that my rage reserves still are full enough to point them out.

But, of course, that doesn´t mean I cannot do it in a civil and responsible manner.

Facts are facts, though, and it shouldn´t matter if they come from a supporter of her Galactic Highness or from someone who purports to be neutral. If my factual arguments are instantly dismissed because of my character preference, it only points out that the person dismissing them is biased as well and unwilling to listen to a standpoint besides his/her own. I´ve really tried to always argue my case based on the factual happenings of the show.

One other thing, though. There are few, if any, long discussions complaining about Sheryl, besides stuff like "I didn´t like her from the start and am unable to overcome that first impression!". If one character engenders so little animosity, and the other one so much, one seriously has to question what went wrong in balancing them.

The fact remains, though... Ranka has a long list of serious failings, both in her character and her deeds, which were not adressed even at the end of the series. And still she is held up by some as this paragon of virtue and innocence, who still has a legitimate shot at Alto.

This irks me to no end. And I shall stop here, lest this turns into a two page rant about what exactly makes me so irascible about that.

So many well written truths here.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Well, everytime I see another pro-Ranka person trying to make silly excuses for bad behaviour, I notice that my rage reserves still are full enough to point them out.

But, of course, that doesn´t mean I cannot do it in a civil and responsible manner.

Facts are facts, though, and it shouldn´t matter if they come from a supporter of her Galactic Highness or from someone who purports to be neutral. If my factual arguments are instantly dismissed because of my character preference, it only points out that the person dismissing them is biased as well and unwilling to listen to a standpoint besides his/her own. I´ve really tried to always argue my case based on the factual happenings of the show.

One other thing, though. There are few, if any, long discussions complaining about Sheryl, besides stuff like "I didn´t like her from the start and am unable to overcome that first impression!". If one character engenders so little animosity, and the other one so much, one seriously has to question what went wrong in balancing them.

The fact remains, though... Ranka has a long list of serious failings, both in her character and her deeds, which were not adressed even at the end of the series. And still she is held up by some as this paragon of virtue and innocence, who still has a legitimate shot at Alto.

This irks me to no end. And I shall stop here, lest this turns into a two page rant about what exactly makes me so irascible about that.

I think it irks a lot of people. But to add on to that, I especially hate it when her fans just wright off those failings as bad writing, never taking into consideration that, that negative trait is also a part of her personality. Or they just ignore it entirely. I can be vexing.

Though in my opinion I writers may not have taken that route because they didn't have enough time to do it. And if they had left it like that then a lot more people would be estranged from her (though it happened already).

[Snowblind]

Originally Posted by Tak

Huh?

Bud, she actually led her own elite squadron, which trashed a buttload of Zent pods at the beginning of the show and kept fighting until she was kidnapped. She later bailed out of an enemy battleship while rescuing that schmuck of a reporter single-handed. Later, she went as far as to command the SDF-1 herself alongside Hibiki. No sir, she was involved in lots of action.

- Tak

Like I said, as far as I can recall... I made sure to preface the comment with uncertainty. It's been years since I watched Macross II. I only have it on VHS, and I have no VCR available (okay, I have one, but it's packed away). Most of what I remember of Silvie has her on Earth.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Snowblind

Like I said, as far as I can recall... I made sure to preface the comment with uncertainty. It's been years since I watched Macross II. I only have it on VHS, and I have no VCR available (okay, I have one, but it's packed away). Most of what I remember of Silvie has her on Earth.

I believe you can still find it floating around on the internet. Who owns the rights towards it anyway?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Snowblind

Like I said, as far as I can recall... I made sure to preface the comment with uncertainty. It's been years since I watched Macross II. I only have it on VHS, and I have no VCR available (okay, I have one, but it's packed away). Most of what I remember of Silvie has her on Earth.

Well, if thats the case, you can't really blame me for correcting you. But thats ok, it only shows that you don't like Macross II all that much.

Which is fine, because guess what, me too.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

I believe you can still find it floating around on the internet. Who owns the rights towards it anyway?

Manga Entertainment.

- Tak