Anime viewer ratings in Japan?

[Guardian Enzo]

Ah - too bad! I'm curious to see how it's doing - the only indicators we have are that surprise appearance in the Sankaku poll and equally surprising appearance in the doujin market.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Mahou Showtime lists Ginga he Kickoff!! as carried by NHK BS Premium, NHK's pay-TV service. I wouldn't be surprised to discover it's not rated. I don't see any BS numbers on the Geocities site.

It re-airs on NHK general a few days later I think,or at least it used to since Atarashii was able to give me ratings a bit earlier

edit: looking at the official website it seems to air on nhk 4 days after nhk-bs

[Katapan]

noitaminA ratings up to 12/07/05:

	Wk. 1	Wk. 2	Wk. 3	Wk. 4	Wk. 5	Wk. 6	Wk. 7	Wk. 8	Wk. 9	Wk. 10	Wk. 11	Wk. 12	Avg
Tatami Galaxy - House of Five Leaves -	1.5	1.6	1.7	2.1	2.5	1.5	1.8	2.8	2.0	2.3	2.3	2.5	2.05
Moyashimon (drama) - Shiki	3.4	2.4	2.6	2.3	2.7	2.3	2.6	2.5	2.9	2.0	2.5	-	2.56
Kuragehime - Shiki	2.3	-	2.2	3.1	2.8	2.7	1.8	2.4	1.6	2.5	2.1	2.7	2.38
Fractale - Hourou Musuko	1.9	1.8	1.6	2.1	-	1.5	2.1	1.9	1.8	1.3	0.9	2.5	1.76
[C] - AnoHana	1.6	2.5	3.9	2.8	2.5	2.9	2.2	2.0	2.4	2.9	3.2	-	2.63
Usagi Drop - NO. 6	1.2	2.4	2.1	2.6	2.1	2.5	-	2.3	1.6	2.4	1.6	2.5	2.11
UN-GO - Guilty Crown	2.6	2.4	1.3	2.7	2.6	1.8	2.0	1.9	2.0	1.7	3.0	-	2.18
Thermae Romae - Guilty Crown	2.1	2.6	1.8	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	2.17
Black★Rock Shooter - Guilty Crown	-	-	-	1.8	2.3	2.1	1.7	1.4	2.0	2.4	1.5	-	1.90
Kids on the Slope - Tsuritama	2.6	2.3	2.3	2.1	1.7	1.5	2.1	0.9	1.7	1.5	1.6	2.5	1.90
Moyashimon Returns - Natsuyuki Rendez-vous	1.8												1.80

With such figures, it'll probably soon become as meaningless to follow the noitaminA ratings as it is for the other late-night timeslots. Lol.

[SeijiSensei]

What makes this especially unnerving is that the original show routinely got ratings in the 4-5% range. Moyashimon remains the third highest-ranked show ever carried in the noitaminA block.

Now I don't want to get into another lengthy discussion about what's up with noitaminA; that's more appropriate material for the noitaminA thread itself. I do think we're seeing the long-term effects of the overall narrowing of the anime audience that happened over the past few years. Shows got strong ratings on noitaminA when they attracted viewers outside the core anime audience. Now it seems that even franchises that once drew these viewers in significant numbers fail to do so any more.

I do note that the manga chapters are not appearing at the pace they once did. So while anime series are considered advertisements for the manga, there's presumably also the reverse effect, where manga readers watch the animated versions of stories they enjoyed. Perhaps there were more of those people in 2007 than today.

I also wonder a bit about how the live-action version might have affected interest in this series. I didn't watch more than an episode of the live action version because I don't find the tendency to overacting and mugging in Japanese live-action comedies appealing. It scored about a 2.5% rating, or about half the original anime rating, though that was fairly average for noitaminA shows after the switch to the two-series format. Maybe the Japanese are just "microbed out"?

[fertygo]

Or the timeslot is just bad now.

You not gonna get sky high rating in midnight airtime.

[SeijiSensei]

The timeslot for noitaminA hasn't changed in years. It's not the timeslot, it's the fact that the audience for noitaminA has collapsed.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

The timeslot for noitaminA hasn't changed in years. It's not the timeslot, it's the fact that the audience for noitaminA has collapsed.

I think the ratings strongly suggest that the traditional audience for noitaminA has been lost, yes.

Strictly from a commercial standpoint, noitaminA might as well go "all-otaku" now.

From a commercial standpoint, the benefit of the original approach was "high ratings", while the benefit of an otaku-targeted approach is "high DVD/Blu-Ray sales". Well, if you can't get those high ratings any more, there's not much commercial reason to stick to (or go back to) the original approach. Commercial interests almost always take precedent in situations like this, at least in time.

So I think that within a year or less, noitaminA shows will not be much different from other late-night anime shows...

[Guardian Enzo]

It's funny how this thread always seems to end up a NoitaminA discussion thread...

I'm not so sure it's such a slam-dunk that NoitaminA will fade into just another late-night slot, because when the block has overtly attempted to "sell out", it hasn't worked all that well. It might just be that it's a no-win situation - it will lose its core audience by trying to be overtly commercial, but traditional otaku will continue to ignore it.

Also, FWIW, Tsuritama ended up doing very well on BD/DVD sales (Sakamichi is still an unknown) and that's certainly far from a commercial series.

[ahelo]

Actually I think the Otaku thing helped noitaminA pretty well. Fractale flopped but both Anohana and Guilty Crown did pretty well in terms of DVD/BD sales. If their tactics was to go for a more Otaku audience and if DVD/BDs are also important now, wouldn't you say that the Otaku-venture worked out fine? Not that I want them to turn into an Otaku block but. . .

Also I wouldn't consider Tsuritama getting 2000+ DVD/BD "doing very well" even if we considered it not a commercial success.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

It's funny how this thread always seems to end up a NoitaminA discussion thread...

I blame Katapan myself!

[Katapan]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I blame Katapan myself!

I, um... blame the fact that noitaminA is about the only timeslot that's worth discussing its ratings for? Nah, there are slots like Uchuu Kyoudai and whatnot and I properly discuss them too! Heh.

Spoiler for noitaminA stuff we should definitely move to the other thread if anyone feels like replying to it!:

As ahelo said, I wouldn't exactly consider Tsuritama to be doing very well. It's doing fine at best. As for Sakamichi no Apollon, the producers already know they're going to be losing money on it. Even though the first volume won't be on sale before the end of the month, the show's over and it won't make a miraculous come-back, so they certainly have a good idea of how (poorly) it'll sell already. Maruyama Masao held a panel at Japan Expo yesterday and made it clear that the budget spent on the music scenes was huge, and they know they will not be making it back from the sales. Even if the sales somehow end up hitting close to 4k, it'll most likely still be quite far from the break-even point.

Harass totoum if you want more information, I couldn't make it on time for the panel so I heard it all from him! He won't have the time to reply though!

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by ahelo

Actually I think the Otaku thing helped noitaminA pretty well. Fractale flopped but both Anohana and Guilty Crown did pretty well in terms of DVD/BD sales. If their tactics was to go for a more Otaku audience and if DVD/BDs are also important now, wouldn't you say that the Otaku-venture worked out fine? Not that I want them to turn into an Otaku block but. . .

Also I wouldn't consider Tsuritama getting 2000+ DVD/BD "doing very well" even if we considered it not a commercial success.

Not to rehash an old argument, but I don't think AnoHana was a play for otaku. It was a NoitaminA series that otaku embraced.

And Tsuritama did 4454 BD/DVD, which is pretty frickin' good for a NoitaminA show about four guys.

[Undertaker]

AnoHana is aimed toward otaku in the beginning, it's an anime original project which means there is no casual fan anticipation compare to say Thermae Romae or Usagi Drop. On the other hand it was one of the highest anticipate series among otaku magazine and had little promo outside of that circle. In a sense it was like it's sister project HanaIro in the same season where the both series got picked up quickly by casual fans.

But marketing aside, it's hard to call a series to be aimed as casual audience when a ghost appears and is a central plot figure....

[Guardian Enzo]

Does that make Natsuyuki Rendezvous an otaku series, then?

[Undertaker]

But Natsuyuki Rendezvous does have a manga source material where casual audience read it. Anohana doesn't.

Here is a simple question for you, what is your view on HanaIro?

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

On the other hand it was one of the highest anticipate series among otaku magazine and had little promo outside of that circle.

I'd add that not every noitaminA series was originally intended for the block. Some were existing Aniplex projects that were moved onto the slot once they hooked up with Fuji TV.

Hourou Musuko was one such production (Aniplex concluded that the themes would be difficult to market toward typical anime audiences). There's a good chance that AnoHana was another one, seeing that the project grew out of a proposal (originally with slapstick erotic elements) by Mari Okada.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

But Natsuyuki Rendezvous does have a manga source material where casual audience read it. Anohana doesn't.

Here is a simple question for you, what is your view on HanaIro?

HanaIro is much more of a classic otaku premise than AnoHana. Effectively an all-girl cast in what looks from the outside like a girls being cute series, though of course there was more plot than the advertising wanted you to know. AnoHana was marketed based on its story right from the beginning - HanaIro was marketed based on its look.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

AnoHana was marketed based on its story right from the beginning.

That's what I remember too, right from one of the first PVs.

Also, I don't recall it being advertised in that many anime magazines - or at least, no one was posting images until later during its run, when it was clear that it had been a hit with the traditional anime crowd too.

[Undertaker]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

HanaIro is much more of a classic otaku premise than AnoHana. Effectively an all-girl cast in what looks from the outside like a girls being cute series, though of course there was more plot than the advertising wanted you to know. AnoHana was marketed based on its story right from the beginning - HanaIro was marketed based on its look.

Originally Posted by karice67

That's what I remember too, right from one of the first PVs.

Also, I don't recall it being advertised in that many anime magazines - or at least, no one was posting images until later during its run, when it was clear that it had been a hit with the traditional anime crowd too.

I guess that's where our view differ than. The way I recalled was that HanaIro was structure to appeal to a more mass market with its multi-facet marketing strategy including manga series and co-operations/sponsors from Hot Spring tourist spots. That project was suppose to be part of an market effort for Kanazawa City tourism.


As for what Karice67 said, while that was true that the it was overshodowed at time during promotion, it had even less promotion outside of anime magazine in other medias. Original anime either market towards anime magazine or manga magazine. And if it was designed to appeal to mass market, then you set up a huge event to attract media. Anohana had zero of those compare to HanaIro.

All it had was a novel serialization on Da Vinci a month before airing and promotion posters on Saibu Railway's Chichibu City station where the anime staged. IMO, You just can't call a series to be designed toward casual viewer when there is little to no promotion to casual market with zero fan base.

[karice67]

Question, Undertaker: were you in Japan at the time? I.e. around Feb-Apr 2011?

Originally Posted by Undertaker

I guess that's where our view differ than. The way I recalled was that HanaIro was structure to appeal to a more mass market with its multi-facet marketing strategy including manga series and co-operations/sponsors from Hot Spring tourist spots. That project was suppose to be part of an market effort for Kanazawa City tourism.

As for what Karice67 said, while that was true that the it was overshodowed at time during promotion, it had even less promotion outside of anime magazine in other medias. Original anime either market towards anime magazine or manga magazine. And if it was designed to appeal to mass market, then you set up a huge event to attract media. Anohana had zero of those compare to HanaIro.

All it had was a novel serialization on Da Vinci a month before airing and promotion posters on Saibu Railway's Chichibu City station where the anime staged. IMO, You just can't call a series to be designed toward casual viewer when there is little to no promotion to casual market with zero fan base.

Question 2: what is your concept of marketing to the mass market?

Because, what you've described above wrt HanaIro sounds to me like an effort to bring anime-related tourism to Kanazawa, i.e. they were trying to tap into the market for otaku and casual anime fans (and girls who like cute things, perhaps) going on anime pilgrimages.

How many non-anime customers they scored because of that is unknown, and I'm not even going to try guessing. However, that kind of promotion is, to me, not directed primarily at the mass market.


Let me refer you to these two pages: PV spots for AnoHana and HanaIro. You might notice that AnoHana had no less than FIVE 15 second TV spots, whilst all of HanaIro's PVs were 2 minutes long, i.e. they were definitely not for TV.

Whilst I don't have evidence for it, I suspect that the AnoHana TV spots were played on Fuji TV and the other broadcast stations during prime time in order to attract some of the J-drama and variety show audience.

That's not even looking at other forms of advertising, such as posters at bus stops (I saw some Cross Game ones when I was still in Japan, but I wasn't there for AnoHana. Of course, in CG's case, the Adachi and high school baseball factors were also very important), in commuter trains etc, which none of us overseas viewers would even know about unless someone decided to blog about them.