Rebelling against demographics, and it pays off

[Joyce_Steele]

Before Autumn 2010, I was an average girl-type anime fans, who almost never pick anything non-shoujo except K-On! and Lucky Star which are from a friend's recommendation, yes a male friend. I generally avoided anything which aren't shoujo until I come on contact with Yosuga no Sora, an obvious seinen heavy drama from a visual novel with same name that were intended to be played/read by men. As a young woman, I shouldn't see it but I tried it anyway....

Three months later I become a happiest and saddest woman in this world at same time as it ends. I become a huge fangirl of that show but I have to accept the fact that it will never make it to my country and there will be no chance to see it dubbed. Instead of an annoying ecchi rom-com but instead it is an excellent heavy drama show with very few can stand with it. To appreciate other seinen drama shows, I also try to see Clannad and Hanasaku Iroha, which also good and in fact Hanasaku Iroha could be one of the best shoujo show I saw in my life if it were shoujo in first place but too bad most Japanese women won't see something like that. Back to Yosuga no Sora I believe I'm one of the very few people who actually who proudly speaking about it in public while most of other YnS fans treated it as a skeleton in their closets. A very beautiful skeleton in their closets.

While I can see some male users are going to brag how some shoujo shows such as Fruits Basket and Ouran Highschool Host Club are better than most of shounen/seinen ecchi rom-coms(which are completely different shows to begin with) but for some reasons I ends up hating Ouran despite being a shoujo fan. Maybe lack of decent female characters perhaps.

[Fireminer]

Hmm... The hating of stereotype, I see!

Don't know much about Shoujo execpt CLAMP's works and Tokyo Mew Mew. They're great, but not enough dramatic elemental (execpt Tsubasa, maybe) to become remarkable.

[Lord of Fire]

Originally Posted by Joyce_Steele

Before Autumn 2010, I was an average girl-type anime fans, who almost never pick anything shoujo except K-On! and Lucky Star which are from a friend's recommendation, yes a male friend. I generally avoided anything which aren't shoujo until I come on contact with Yosuga no Sora, an obvious seinen heavy drama from a visual novel with same name that were intended to be played/read by men. As a young woman, I shouldn't see it but I tried it anyway....

I don't follow this. First you say you never picked shoujo, then you say you never pick anything but shoujo. BTW, K-On! and Lucky Star are also seinen, so those getting recommended by a guy isn't really all that peculiar.


OT: I'm a guy, but I don't mind watching shows aimed at girls (shoujo/josei), though I'm not really going out of my way to look for them, either. Demographic rarely matters to me, unless it's something I know I won't like, though even that is more a genre/theme issue than a demographics one. Heck, often, I don't even know who the show is aimed at in the first place, unless it's specifically stated.

[SeijiSensei]

Like the other posters, I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. That you discovered you like seinen shows? I'm sure I could identify a number of shows that are officially "seinen" that adults of either gender would enjoy. I actually watch few shows aimed primarily at men, because I prefer female protagonists and don't care about ecchi. Shows like Hidamari Sketch and Ikoku Meiro no Croisee are officially "seinen" because they were published in seinen magazines, though the protagonists are female.

"Josei" shows for adult women are much less common, but certainly Hataraki Man, Nodame Cantabile, Saiunkoku Monogatari, Kuragehime, and Otona Joshi no Anime Time deserve your consideration as well.

[Echoes]

I think that you're putting too much of an emphasis on demographics. It's not at all uncommon for people to venture outside the demographic that most directly targets them. It's not an ironclad "this is for girls, this is for men" rule. It's no big deal.

Using some of your own examples, I've watched and loved both Clannad, K-On and Ouran High School Host Club. I watch shows like Smile Precure without batting an eye. Kuragehime and Otona Joshi no Anime Time, brought up by SeijiSensei, are also shows I've greatly enjoyed. It's amazing entertainment with heart and soul, it doesn't matter who it was made for. (I also have two Yosuga no Sora wall-scrolls hanging on the wall to my right, so it's certainly not in my closet. )

As Lord of Fire already pointed out as well, a show having female protagonists (such as K-On and Lucky Star) is not at all uncommon for seinen shows. Tons of shows directed at males have mostly, or exclusively, female leads.

[Kirito]

I don't really mind female protagonists in anime shows really. Could it all just be about how a show presents itself, and the preferences of the fan's tastes? I enjoyed Hanasaku Iroha and K-ON, but Lucky Star not so much.

It's normally easy to cater to a specific fanbase of each respective sex, but I think it boils down to presentation and how one's work presents itself. Some guys like girl stuff, and some girls like guy stuff. Contradictory, who knows, but everyone has a taste or preference for something.

[scineram]

Target audience is the last thing I care about, in that I don't give a shit.

[TheSix]

Agreed. Demographics are really only considerable within terms of marketing: They don't actually represent the quality of the piece whatsoever.

[Dark Faith]

Originally Posted by Joyce_Steele

I generally avoided anything which aren't shoujo until I come on contact with Yosuga no Sora, an obvious seinen heavy drama from a visual novel with same name that were intended to be played/read by men. As a young woman, I shouldn't see it but I tried it anyway....

As others have said, you're putting way too much emphasis on demographics, almost as if it's guaranteed that you wouldn't enjoy a show just because it isn't shoujo.

Originally Posted by Joyce_Steele

in fact Hanasaku Iroha could be one of the best shoujo show I saw in my life if it were shoujo in first place but too bad most Japanese women won't see something like that.

You base such a statement on what grounds? Again, I don't think the audience, be it western or otherwise, picks their shows based on the target audience decided by the marketing people.
Notable exceptions are/could be yuri/yaoi works.

Originally Posted by Joyce_Steele

Back to Yosuga no Sora I believe I'm one of the very few people who actually who proudly speaking about it in public while most of other YnS fans treated it as a skeleton in their closets.

That's probably because YnS is pretty average as far as drama goes, and its fanservice goes WAY over the top, which makes it hard to recommend to people who are mindful of such things.

[Kameruka]

I hate to say this but I think some people here are taking this thread too seriously. I can sensed Joyce_Steele is being sarcastic and I can feel it from the first paragraph.

By the way I'm quite agree with her on "stepping outside the demographic boxes" thing. I already got fed up with people constantly judging anime by their demographics and promotional posters especially in Season Expectation threads such as "some 6-years old girls on the posters and this must be a moe crap so no thanks" "group of bishies, just another fujioshi crap" and the examples go on. I think Coppelion become the recent victim of this trend as some K fangirls are dissapointed with it despite being made, directed and written by the same people who made K but at same time it is obvious Coppelion is aimed towards completely different viewing audiences. I can't give proper example on Free! but I'm pretty sure it is filled with hate, hate and more HATE from moe fanboys, especially K-On! ones.

I love Yosuga no Sora and Hanasaku Iroha and I wished there will be more shows like it but at same time I had to accept the fact these shows are not popular enough to get sequels(although YnS is canonically ended). Maybe there aren't many exposure to non-otaku audiences unlike ecchi harem rom-com shows which constantly bombarded the list every seasons.

In real-life Japan male readers aged 18-30 are more likely to read shoujo mangas such as Ouran High School Host Club, Fruits Basket, Kimi no Todoke, Cardcaptor Sakura and this can be explained with the popularity of the anime adapted from those mangas. Japanese women at same age on male-oriented anime and drama are not so much. They already have many alternatives to begin with. If they want to see some good serious drama shows, they can watch live-action and so most of them have no idea on seinen drama shows like Hanasaku Iroha and Clannad for examples.

[Kirarakim]

I am a woman and I love Shoujo, Shounen, Josei, and Seinen. Do I get a reward or something.

Anyways even though you are a woman it feels a bit disconcerting that you are judging other women for their supposed tastes.

If you like or dislike a show it shouldn't be because of your gender but because you are you & have your own perceptions & opinion.

However I will say as a woman I am glad anime/manga doesn't forget me & there are some series targeted directly at me in the Josei demographic. That doesn't mean I automatically like something because it is Josei but I do appreciate it all the same.

[KanbeKotori]

Originally Posted by Joyce_Steele

Before Autumn 2010, I was an average girl-type anime fans, who almost never pick anything non-shoujo except K-On! and Lucky Star which are from a friend's recommendation, yes a male friend. I generally avoided anything which aren't shoujo until I come on contact with Yosuga no Sora, an obvious seinen heavy drama from a visual novel with same name that were intended to be played/read by men. As a young woman, I shouldn't see it but I tried it anyway....

Three months later I become a happiest and saddest woman in this world at same time as it ends. I become a huge fangirl of that show but I have to accept the fact that it will never make it to my country and there will be no chance to see it dubbed. Instead of an annoying ecchi rom-com but instead it is an excellent heavy drama show with very few can stand with it. To appreciate other seinen drama shows, I also try to see Clannad and Hanasaku Iroha, which also good and in fact Hanasaku Iroha could be one of the best shoujo show I saw in my life if it were shoujo in first place but too bad most Japanese women won't see something like that. Back to Yosuga no Sora I believe I'm one of the very few people who actually who proudly speaking about it in public while most of other YnS fans treated it as a skeleton in their closets. A very beautiful skeleton in their closets.

While I can see some male users are going to brag how some shoujo shows such as Fruits Basket and Ouran Highschool Host Club are better than most of shounen/seinen ecchi rom-coms(which are completely different shows to begin with) but for some reasons I ends up hating Ouran despite being a shoujo fan. Maybe lack of decent female characters perhaps.

I like your taste. I'm not a lady though.

I feel that some people do not like Hanasaku Iroha just cos it's mostly SoL that revolves mainly around girls(which they find it boring). Btw Hanasaku Iroha is not shoujo but seinen(I have watched it and love it so I know).
Yosuga no Sora is heavily criticized because of how they touch on the topic of incest, which is a taboo but those who truly understand the anime/VN knows it's not about it that is the concern but rather how Sora became a person like that and what not. I love YnS for it's plot(some may argue it doesn't have one but I do see a story) and understand why did the author decided to put it that way.

Oh...as for OHHC, I never liked the story. Heck, even Sukitte Ii Na Yo or Hiyokoi is a better Shoujo anime than OHHC.

Originally Posted by Lord of Fire

I don't follow this. First you say you never picked shoujo, then you say you never pick anything but shoujo. BTW, K-On! and Lucky Star are also seinen, so those getting recommended by a guy isn't really all that peculiar.


OT: I'm a guy, but I don't mind watching shows aimed at girls (shoujo/josei), though I'm not really going out of my way to look for them, either. Demographic rarely matters to me, unless it's something I know I won't like, though even that is more a genre/theme issue than a demographics one. Heck, often, I don't even know who the show is aimed at in the first place, unless it's specifically stated.

I believe most people care about the story first rather than demographics.

Originally Posted by scineram

Target audience is the last thing I care about, in that I don't give a shit.

Hi Five LOL



A personal input of opinion. I do believe most people choose their anime according to their taste and preference and not by demographics. Anime, in the end is about the story. It's like your everyday drama just that it is in animation format. When classifying anime, they have no choice but to put it on the basis that this group of people will most likely watch it and what not hence the surface of demographics classification.

While it's not important when choosing anime, I do feel that it's a helpful thing for beginners who is just exposed to anime without much help from their friends for recommendations.

[Triple_R]

My view is basically the same as Kirarakim's, the only difference is that I'm coming from an adult man perspective and not an adult woman perspective.

I think it's silly to strictly limit yourself to show's that are aimed at your demographic (whether that demographic is adult men, adult women, teenage guys, or teenage girls). You'll find high quality shows for each target demographic, and good quality is something that anybody of any age or gender can appreciate.

That being said, my anime viewing would likely decline substantially if everything was shounen or shoujo. I definitely appreciate having more adult-focused seinen works out there.

[Tempester]

I'm an adult male, and one of my favorite anime at the moment is Ashita no Nadja, a show for young girls. Other wonderful kids' anime I've seen as an adult are Digimon Tamers and The Snow Queen. I don't think it makes me childish, gay, or retarded to watch and enjoy these shows. When I look at an anime, I don't ask "who is this made for?" but I ask "does this look interesting to me?"

Demographics are just really vague guidelines anyway; they don't give you a complete idea of what you're going to see anyway, and it's silly to outright declare the demographic of something just from its content. For example, Aria is shounen while Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer is seinen. While I still haven't looked into shoujo and josei manga/anime enough to find huge amounts of variation, I find shounen and seinen manga to vary in content and genre wildly.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Joyce_Steele

but too bad most Japanese women won't see something like that.

You are very wrong...at least with respect to those I know

Anyway, I watch whatever I like. Everything from BL to psychological stuff. I don't even know the intended demographic or care to find out at all

[Eragon]

Labels are overrated.

[orion]

I watch whatever I like also. I'm mostly shounen and seinen. I also watch shoujo and josei.

[GDiddy]

As long as it entertains me, I don't give a shit about what demographic it is.

And to not watch certain things because you feel that it doesn't fall into your demographic is silly.

[Lyocol]

Before I went straight to the point I want to ask how many women(especially English-speaking ones) actually saw Queen's Blade? Of course there aren't any.

In the West most male viewers already appreciate shoujo and josei shows but strangely there aren't any women actually saw something like Queen's Blade and Strike Witches. Maybe most of them though only 30-years old virgin males enjoyed such shows but that just a bad and baseless stereotype to begin with.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Lyocol

Before I went straight to the point I want to ask how many women(especially English-speaking ones) actually saw Queen's Blade? Of course there aren't any.

In the West most male viewers already appreciate shoujo and josei shows but strangely there aren't any women actually saw something like Queen's Blade and Strike Witches. Maybe most of them though only 30-years old virgin males enjoyed such shows but that just a bad and baseless stereotype to begin with.

I don't think it's fair to compare queen's blade to Shoujo and Jousei in general.
Titles like Rayearth or Sailor Moon are more comparable to stuff like FMA or HunterxHunter and so on which are undoubtedly shounen and yet have a lot of female fans.

Queen's blade is full of shove-in-your-face ecchi fanservice which is an instant turn-off for a heterosexual women and even to some heterosexual men.

When you go to that extreme you should pick from the other side stuff that is equally explicit on the fanservice like 07-ghost.