Macross Frontier - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[lars18th]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

And I'm just being curious, was this 70% rating poll taken before or after Ep25, source?

More than 75% of the people on this forum alone rated the last episode as good or above (up until now). Just look at the results above.
The fact that haters and trolls spam the hell out of the forums with their negative opinion over and over does not make their opinion prevalent. If you disliked the last episode you are still a minority.

[lars18th]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Minmay showed the worst and most defining characteristic of her personality at a crucial moment, strong selfishness. And what did it cost to her hopes for ending with Hikaru because of her selfishness? CAPITAL PUNISHMENT! You know, I love when a character gets punished for flaws impeding mutual happiness because it takes two for a relationship. Ranka displayed a lot of selfishness in the way she handled things with Alto while Sheryl displayed more of her altruistic side towards him, shouldn't that be deserving enough of a punishment on Ranka just like Minmay got nailed 25 years ago?

Not only in SDFM and DYRL, but also in Macross Plus. Myung loved both men, but MUST recognize she loves Isamu more; Guld was more or less "punished" for his overagressive side in that triangle.

As I said, life is made of choices which have to be made because it's IMPOSSIBLE to satisfy everyone.

At that time, Minmay had already lost Hikaru due to external circunstances. She didn't lose him because of her personality flaws. Hikaru ended up with Hayase because he literally got stuck with her for a long time.

Myung ends up with Isamu because Guld is pretty much painted as the bad guy from the beginning and then he is killed in the end.

Your point of view of relationships as a series of mere rewards and punishments is quite unique. I am glad at least you understand it's impossible to satisfy everyone.

Most people seem satisfied with that ending by the way, according to the poll.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by lars18th

At that time, Minmay had already lost Hikaru due to external circunstances. She didn't lose him because of her personality flaws. Hikaru ended up with Hayase because he literally got stuck with her for a long time.

Myung ends up with Isamu because Guld is pretty much painted as the bad guy from the beginning and then he is killed in the end.

Your point of view of relationships as a series of mere rewards and punishments is quite unique. I am glad at least you understand it's impossible to satisfy everyone.

Most people seem satisfied with that ending by the way, according to the poll.

Of course the poll asks about the complete episode, not only the romance aspect. Even on a shipper heavy forum like this one, people do also judge episodes against other aspects.

If it were for the romance only, I´d rate this episode a five, more likely less. Because Kawamori missed the opportunity to end the romance epically, like the show seemed to promise in ep 24.

[forgottendiary]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Of course the poll asks about the complete episode, not only the romance aspect. Even on a shipper heavy forum like this one, people do also judge episodes against other aspects.

If it were for the romance only, I´d rate this episode a five, more likely less. Because Kawamori missed the opportunity to end the romance epically, like the show seemed to promise in ep 24.

Couldn't have said it any better. In terms of the LT, it's like going from:

OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

to

eh?.....

[Scep]

The funny thing about this romance ending was that i was *pleasantly surprised*. S/A supporter here btw. Thing was, there were so many hints that it would be a ranka end. The last episode name (anata no oto), sheryl being half dead already, and episode 23 ending, i was half prepared that it would be a ranka end. And watching the episode late, with all the 'hints' on the forum ("/rages" anyone? ), lets just say that i was very pleasantly relieved.

[Wesley84]

Actually, lots, lots, lots more people are hating on this episode than any of the previous ones. The fact that so many is more indicative than the regular number of people that like episodes in general. I don't believe it went over "10" for painful, but here we've got almost 30 saying the episode bombed out.

[justavisitor]

just a thoguht:

Hikaru had to choose one (Misa) at the end because the colony fleet has not officially launched yet, so he has to choose one based on our old tradition

But now, the colony fleet has launched, they must experience some obstacles they never faced before, like 1) alien attack and lots of ppl dying 2) disease that can only be found in universe

In summary, they realize they need as many children as possible, so in the year of 20xx, they fixed the marriage law, so marriage is no longer 1+1, and it can be with any creature they can found, (Zen, and now Vajra XD)

As for why Sheryl and Ranka are fighting for Alto, well, girls tend to read romance novels too much...Alto never seems to want to choose one because he knows he doesn't have to XD

Hey, I think I totally map into director's thought process!!!

Don't take it too seriously ppl

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Of course the poll asks about the complete episode, not only the romance aspect. Even on a shipper heavy forum like this one, people do also judge episodes against other aspects.

If it were for the romance only, I´d rate this episode a five, more likely less. Because Kawamori missed the opportunity to end the romance epically, like the show seemed to promise in ep 24.

For the romance aspect, I'd give it a ten. Because neither girl got heartbroken, and because of the number of people Alto's non-decision's pissed off...

[lars18th]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

For the romance aspect, I'd give it a ten. Because neither girl got heartbroken, and because of the number of people Alto's non-decision's pissed off...

Agreed 170%!

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by lars18th

At that time, Minmay had already lost Hikaru due to external circunstances. She didn't lose him because of her personality flaws. Hikaru ended up with Hayase because he literally got stuck with her for a long time.

Myung ends up with Isamu because Guld is pretty much painted as the bad guy from the beginning and then he is killed in the end.

Your point of view of relationships as a series of mere rewards and punishments is quite unique. I am glad at least you understand it's impossible to satisfy everyone.

Most people seem satisfied with that ending by the way, according to the poll.

Uh, that's an interesting re-writing of the original SDF Macross or even DYRL you are giving us there ...

Minmay lost to Misa very obviously because Hikaru matured with time as a War is going on in the background, losing dear friends, and having the opportunity to compare the shallowness of Minmay (who had more attraction in the short term due to her looks, idol status and "cuteness") to the intelligence and soft side of Misa.
Misa's beauty (although I think it was also visible on the outside) was less obvious than Minmay's, but in the end Hikaru recognized that one of the two was far more attractive in a "soulmate" kind of way.
Minmay definitely lost due to her own flaws, when with time they became more and more apparent to a maturing character.

[Jazzrat]

I give it a 10 anyway because the final space battle with the girls' duet is just so wowsome! Great action and wonderful choreography makes it a joy to watch.

Plus there's a movie in the making anyway so I hope the LT would be concluded by then.

[lars18th]

I was referring to the events in DYRL and what I said remains a fact. Hikaru is in love with Minmay all the way to the time when he gets stuck with Hayase on Earth.
Hikaru and Hayase have barely nothing in common and dont get along well for a big portion of the time they spend on Earth.
I do like both characters and I do think they make a better couple but their relationship is 100% forced by circunstances. Hayase has a very stubborn personality and if it wasn't for that ocurrence she would probably end up alone since she would never pursue Hikaru like Minmay did.
In the end, Hikaru may have seen the beautiful person inside Hayase and fell in love and "commited" to her (especially with the easy assumption that Minmay was dead) but that DOES NOT necessarily mean he likes her better than Minmay. Hikaru stood by his commitment but he is clearly heartbroken about the whole situation in the end of the movie.

I stand by what I said: In DYRL, Hikaru gets stuck with Hayase. Period.

[BetoJR]

@lars18th: And I disagree with you. Period. Circumstances are all relative, be it in regards to relationships, musical preferences, what have you. You are being dismissive of the circumstances concerning Hikaru and Misa's relationship to better qualify your point of view.

And I don't see Hikaru anymore heartbroken than any sane person would be if they ever found themselves in a similar situation, with a similar resolution. Of course he would feel at least a little bit bad for Minmei. Wouldn't you?

That doesn't denigrate his love for Misa. No way, sir.

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by lars18th

I was referring to the events in DYRL and what I said remains a fact. Hikaru is in love with Minmay all the way to the time when he gets stuck with Hayase on Earth.
Hikaru and Hayase have barely nothing in common and dont get along well for a big portion of the time they spend on Earth.
I do like both characters and I do think they make a better couple but their relationship is 100% forced by circunstances. Hayase has a very stubborn personality and if it wasn't for that ocurrence she would probably end up alone since she would never pursue Hikaru like Minmay did.
In the end, Hikaru may have seen the beautiful person inside Hayase and fell in love and "commited" to her (especially with the easy assumption that Minmay was dead) but that DOES NOT necessarily mean he likes her better than Minmay. Hikaru stood by his commitment but he is clearly heartbroken about the whole situation in the end of the movie.

I stand by what I said: In DYRL, Hikaru gets stuck with Hayase. Period.

And I stand by what I said in the sense that you're inventing things.
First, Hikaru was not "In Love" with Minmay at the beginning, he had a crush on her. Second, being "stranded" with Misa didn't "cause" him to love her, but to see a different side of her, and with him maturing (he is already more mature during the movie than at the beginning of SDF M) he simply falls for her.

As per being "Heartbroken" at the end of DYRL ... now you're simply making things up...

[TwilightHack]

@lars18th - Episode 25 was held afloat by two things, Mecha pr0nz and the fact that no one important died. Yes I rated this episode painful based on the overall "wtfness" this Ep added to the show.

Like I said, most people are satisfied with the Ep just because non of the main characters died and the LT was left open. What they fail to grasp in the end is the sheer amount of questions and inconsistencies that still need to be answered.

[Zaku_II]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

@lars18th - Episode 25 was held afloat by two things, Mecha pr0nz and the fact that no one important died. Yes I rated this episode painful based on the overall "wtfness" this Ep added to the show.

Like I said, most people are satisfied with the Ep just because non of the main characters died and the LT was left open. What they fail to grasp in the end is the sheer amount of questions and inconsistencies that still need to be answered.

I'd say they wasted the sheer momentum from the dramatic build up from episodes 20 to 24.

And better not to mention the "Deus ex machina" from 25.

[lars18th]

Originally Posted by Zaku_II

I'd say they wasted the sheer momentum from the dramatic build up from episodes 20 to 24.

And better not to mention the "Deus ex machina" from 25.

It sounds like you guys learned that term last night and are trying really hard to use it in the first show that comes around.
Now, considering this is first and foremost a SCI-FI anime full of alien technology and out of this world concepts that can easily go beyond human understanding, what would you classify as a Deus ex machina element? I am really curious about this one....

[Zaku_II]

Originally Posted by lars18th

It sounds like you guys learned that term last night and are trying really hard to use it in the first show that comes around.
Now, considering this is first and foremost a SCI-FI anime full of alien technology and out of this world concepts that can easily go beyond human understanding, what would you classify as a Deus ex machina element? I am really curious about this one....

Random explosion break the implant on the head of Brera liberating him from the Grace's control.

Ranka appears miraculously in Galaxy. The last time we see her, she was abducted for Vajra so it seems logic that she would be taken with the Vajra Queen or to a Vajra nest (like episode 13).

Only to clarify my opinion, I don't consider Deus ex machina the Alto's survive nor Ranka curing Sheryl's illnes

[lars18th]

Originally Posted by Zaku_II

Random explosion break the implant on the head of liberating him from the Grace's control.

Ranka appears miraculously in Galaxy. The last time we see her, she was abducted for Vajra so it seems logic that she would be taken with the Vajra Queen or to a Vajra nest (like episode 13).

Only to clarify my opinion, I don't consider Deus ex machina the Alto's survive nor Ranka curing Sheryl's illnes

Hmmm, gotta agree with you on those 2 examples: The implant break was lame and the Galaxy being behind everything was poorly developed into that ending.
I dont consider them Deus-ex elements but they are definitely plot weaknesses.

[Tabris]

Originally Posted by lars18th

More than 75% of the people on this forum alone rated the last episode as good or above (up until now). Just look at the results above.
The fact that haters and trolls spam the hell out of the forums with their negative opinion over and over does not make their opinion prevalent. If you disliked the last episode you are still a minority.

That, and a lot of the haters are the extreme shippers. And probably some people who jumped the gun and rated the raw without understanding a thing. With a few people who honestly thought it lacked a certain something, with good reason.