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Old 2011-01-19, 02:52   Link #441
AuraTwilight
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The Meta-World doesn't need to validate it's existence. It's Metafictional, Metamorphical, and Metaphysical. It's literally above physics and narrative to the point where "things happen because the story says so."

It's a plane fueled by, created by, moved by, and dominated by the thoughts of it's inhabitants, who are themselves influenced by whoever spawned them.

If anyone's played Silent Hill, you know where I'm going with this.
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Old 2011-01-19, 10:25   Link #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
The Meta-World doesn't need to validate it's existence. It's Metafictional, Metamorphical, and Metaphysical. It's literally above physics and narrative to the point where "things happen because the story says so."

It's a plane fueled by, created by, moved by, and dominated by the thoughts of it's inhabitants, who are themselves influenced by whoever spawned them.

If anyone's played Silent Hill, you know where I'm going with this.
I raised up that Silent Hill connection in the Game Spoilers thread a long time ago, but nobody took me seriously for that.
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Old 2011-01-19, 10:55   Link #443
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Summaries for today. Epic combat is Epic combat.

Spoiler for Summary:


Yeah out of all of them I was particularly psyched with Rosa and Dlanor. Blog updated.

Last edited by MeoTwister5; 2011-01-20 at 01:31. Reason: Corrections.
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Old 2011-01-19, 12:12   Link #444
Klashikari
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Quote:
-She says she will free Dlanor from this world as her friend.
Little correction: Dlanor was the one declaring so, after saying Erika just enjoys messing with people dreams and delusions.
Then starts swinging her sword so hard that the impacts are gigantic.

You also forgot this awesome quote:
Quote:
Erika: 「……こいつらッ、………何なんですかッ?! わけが、……わからないッ!! …………ッ?!?!」
Translation: ......These guys, .........what the hell are they?! I don't......get it!!! ...... ?!?!
The Ushiromiyas, the bloody family
(Particularly effective, as The Executioner is playing when Rose starts the musou mode, then we got Kyrie, Rudolf and Panzer Dlanor)

Last edited by Klashikari; 2011-01-19 at 12:36.
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Old 2011-01-19, 12:42   Link #445
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We don't know what's contained in any of the in-world narratives. Any of them. I tend to refer to the in-universe fictions by episode title (Legend, Dawn, etc.) and the episodes themselves by number.

Bluntly, we have no earthly idea what parts of the stories are written down as actual text and which parts are not. Ep1 would almost seem to suggest that most episodes are like Legend with no magic world either, yet episodes like ep2 and ep4 seem to fly in the face of that as it would require heavy manipulation of the printed story to the version we actually see. Then again, there is ep5 and ep6, and you have to ask just what the text of Dawn of the Golden Witch was actually meant to be.

The safe bet is "mystery and magic is in the narrative, meta-world is outside the narrative but related to it." Under this theory the meta-world is either a separate story, a metaphor for reading and thinking, or just a different plane of existence entirely.

If the meta-world stuff is in the in-universe narratives... hoo boy, we've got some trouble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylon99 View Post
You know, we could argue which world was 'on top' but I have a feeling that Ryukishi could very well write that both the Meta-World and Rokkenjima-Prime cross-created each other. And that in each world the other would be viewed as subordinate.
This kind of trouble.
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Old 2011-01-19, 13:11   Link #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Spoiler for Summary:
Spoiler for EP8:
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Old 2011-01-19, 15:06   Link #447
AuraTwilight
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The awesomeness of the
Spoiler for EP8:
will dominate my pleasure centers forever.
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Old 2011-01-19, 16:08   Link #448
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Just reading MeoTwister5's summaries are epic!
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Old 2011-01-19, 17:23   Link #449
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Thank you for all your hard work MeoTwister5!!!!
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Old 2011-01-19, 19:19   Link #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
The safe bet is "mystery and magic is in the narrative, meta-world is outside the narrative but related to it." Under this theory the meta-world is either a separate story, a metaphor for reading and thinking, or just a different plane of existence entirely.

If the meta-world stuff is in the in-universe narratives... hoo boy, we've got some trouble.This kind of trouble.
I also assume that the meta-world is a metaphor for the thoughts of those who read the stories/experience them in any given way.
Especially Episode 8 made that very probable, as it is implied that the whole meta-world sequence around Ange (spanning all the games she was featured in) happened while she was standing on the roof of that skyscraper she was assumed to have jumped off from. I think it was quite probable that everything after that were just possibilities that could have happened and played out in her mind (helped by the witches).

I think on some level the meta-world exists in Umineko, but it's influence on reality is rather small, just like most people always assumed.
If we consider the Tanabata-Tip concerning Ange's and Eva's relationship, witches can only contact people while they dream or are in a moment of great emotional distress. So one could assume that Bernkastel showed Ange all those things right before she jumped and gave her some insight into possible fates that could befall her, but the actuall reality was never altered.

So the metaworld of Battler and Beato could be seen as a general representation of the reader (or maybe even Tôya) trying to make sense of the situation.
Just a little question for that, in the manga-version of Episode 6 it was said that Banquet and Alliance surfaced in the web and never had their authors revealed...was that in the original as well? I can only remember them saying that versions of messagebottles surfaced on the web, but if it was actually Banquet and Alliance and End was actually Tôya's first novel it would make sense.
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Old 2011-01-19, 19:47   Link #451
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The manga is correct. Hachijou claims to have written three forgeries that were shared on the internet with fake pen names, and she showed the manuscript for a fourth one (EP6) to Ange.
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Old 2011-01-20, 01:29   Link #452
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Little correction: Dlanor was the one declaring so, after saying Erika just enjoys messing with people dreams and delusions.
Then starts swinging her sword so hard that the impacts are gigantic.

You also forgot this awesome quote:
The Ushiromiyas, the bloody family
(Particularly effective, as The Executioner is playing when Rose starts the musou mode, then we got Kyrie, Rudolf and Panzer Dlanor)
Yeah thanks. Correcting it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by immblueversion View Post
Spoiler for EP8:
I can't recall it exactly since I don't have a save at that exact file, but the 剣 character is indeed the one for Tsurugi here, so yes it's a direct reference to the sword.
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Old 2011-01-20, 03:14   Link #453
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Hmm... I've got this... marvellous idea. Say, how about, in Rei (assuming R07 does make it) we get yet another Meta level, this one above the rest. In this one, Umineko, on its entirety (Meta-world included), is a story. Sure, the whole event did happen, but by this point, everyone is dead. In this reality, Battler didn't survive and Ange did throw herself from the building, but this was to commit suicide and succeeded. There's no Hachijō Tōya or Hachijō Ikuko. The author is just a famous fantasy writer. Of course, the writer has no connection at all with the Ushiromiyas, and thus, the whole story was just fantasy. There's not a single bit of truth to it.

This story would be about a girl who suffered from a severe depression, and who managed to find some strength by reading this story. In addition, we'd see several stories about the Ushiromiyas and Meta-characters written by people who have read the story. Some of these stories are happy, and some others are sad. Of course, one of the people writing these stories is this particular girl, who somehow became fond of fantasy stories, but ended up also developing an interest on the mysery genre, due to it being referenced in Umineko.

By the end of the story, we've seen that several years have passed and she's become a detective. The final scene involves her being invited by her friend to her suite in the city... what she didn't know is the odd events that'd place later, but the rest is another story, another when they cry. The End.

I can see this happening.
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Old 2011-01-20, 03:28   Link #454
AuraTwilight
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That's sort of...dumb. I really don't think Ryukishi would go THAT far, as it would render absolutely everything to be meaningless. Atleast this way the fiction is meaningful to the characters of Battler and Ange and contain truthful information of people who existed.
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Old 2011-01-20, 03:32   Link #455
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No, it wouldn't be meaningless because of the girl who got over her depression, and other possible people who found hope in the story!

Just think of it: People creating hope out of a horrible tragedy.
Wouldn't that be beautiful?

Methinks thou hath no love.
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Old 2011-01-20, 03:37   Link #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Hmm... I've got this... marvellous idea. Say, how about, in Rei (assuming R07 does make it) we get yet another Meta level, this one above the rest. In this one, Umineko, on its entirety (Meta-world included), is a story.
But if we do that, we might as well be talking about real life, right?

I wouldn't be surprised if (as you say) Umineko was "downgraded" to story status in the next game if the series continues, like Higurashi was, but probably not as a major plot point.
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Old 2011-01-20, 03:44   Link #457
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But if we do that, we might as well be talking about real life, right?
OR... something opposite to what the guys in Inception did. Instead of going deeper, you go higher.
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Old 2011-01-20, 05:17   Link #458
AuraTwilight
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Quote:
No, it wouldn't be meaningless because of the girl who got over her depression, and other possible people who found hope in the story!
But that girl only exists to justify this ending of yours. We don't know her, we can't know her, and she and all her problems were created whole-cloth for the sake of a twist ending. She's not a character so much as she would be a device, so she's not even the slightest bit comparable to Battler and Ange, who are proper characters who had been a part of the narrative since the beginning.

I mean, hell, Yasu barely got away with it because she had a tangential connection to the characters we did know. Some other girl is just going to be a flat cop-out. We might as well say the depressed girl is Rika Fu-UUUUUUUUUU
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Old 2011-01-20, 07:57   Link #459
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Forgot to say that I have an exam tomorrow so no summary today. Next summary will be up tomorrow.
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Old 2011-01-20, 08:12   Link #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by immblueversion View Post
Spoiler for EP8:
It's just "黄金の長剣". Golden Longsword, basically. But different from the one Battler uses, I guess.
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