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Old 2011-01-20, 09:47   Link #461
Renall
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OR... something opposite to what the guys in Inception did. Instead of going deeper, you go higher.
I certainly think you may be on a higher level than the rest of us, right now.

And you know, there's always fan fiction! Heck, he asked us to do it. Or Featherine asked us to do it. Wait, does that mean we should or shouldn't?
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Old 2011-01-20, 09:55   Link #462
Jan-Poo
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Wait, does that mean we should or shouldn't?
Too late anyway.
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Old 2011-01-20, 13:39   Link #463
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I haven't played EP8, but based on what I've read about it it seems that Hachijou is a fraud who got rich off of ideas from some amnesia sufferer she found on the street.
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Old 2011-01-20, 14:57   Link #464
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Hmmm... Episodes 1 and 2 were written by Shannon, some time in advance of October 4, in the hopes that Battler would read it and get her message. By chance, they weren't found until some time after the event. (OTOH, this means they were written without the knowledge that Battler would attend, that Ange wouldn't, and that there would be a typhoon... improbable.)

The relationship between Jessica and Kanon is symbolic of how the relationship between Shannon and Battler that she has (particularly what Beatrice says to Kanon outside Jessica's room, right before E2T2.) (Pointed out on tvtropes FridgeLogic section.)

The relationship between Shannon and George represents the relationship between Shannon and Battler that she wants...
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Old 2011-01-20, 15:03   Link #465
AuraTwilight
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Quote:
I haven't played EP8, but based on what I've read about it it seems that Hachijou is a fraud who got rich off of ideas from some amnesia sufferer she found on the street.
You've misunderstood, then. Hachijou doesn't even take public credit for her writings on the Rokkenjima incident; her money comes from her other novels.

Quote:
Hmmm... Episodes 1 and 2 were written by Shannon, some time in advance of October 4, in the hopes that Battler would read it and get her message. By chance, they weren't found until some time after the event. (OTOH, this means they were written without the knowledge that Battler would attend, that Ange wouldn't, and that there would be a typhoon... improbable.)
Battler's return to the conference was announced ahead of time, and the typhoon could be found out simply by watching the weather channel; everyone certainly knew it was going to happen before it did. The only actual issue is Ange, but she seems to have a weak constitution and is frequently sick.
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Old 2011-01-20, 17:38   Link #466
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It starts raining around 3:00, IIRC.
The timing of the typhoon is critical. If it had come by 6 hours earlier, then they wouldn't have been able to get to the island. If it had come by 18 hours later, it wouldn't have arrived until after everyone left.

I don't think you can predict the movement of a typhoon that precisely more than, say, a week in advance. It's going to take far more than a week to write both manuscripts.
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Old 2011-01-20, 19:37   Link #467
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But that girl only exists to justify this ending of yours. We don't know her, we can't know her, and she and all her problems were created whole-cloth for the sake of a twist ending. She's not a character so much as she would be a device, so she's not even the slightest bit comparable to Battler and Ange, who are proper characters who had been a part of the narrative since the beginning.

I mean, hell, Yasu barely got away with it because she had a tangential connection to the characters we did know. Some other girl is just going to be a flat cop-out. We might as well say the depressed girl is Rika Fu-UUUUUUUUUU
I don't think it'd be a cop-out since, in the fiction, Battler, Ange and the rest found some happiness. In the end, we cannot even tell what's real or not. As I've said before, even the "real world" events could be fictional as well, and I'm basing myself on this idea, to create yet another Meta level, and use the message of the story to create a new character for the new when they cry.

Come on, is not such a bad idea.

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I certainly think you may be on a higher level than the rest of us, right now.
As a matter of fact, I was. Good shit.

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And you know, there's always fan fiction! Heck, he asked us to do it. Or Featherine asked us to do it. Wait, does that mean we should or shouldn't?
Well, that's a way in which you can go by your own truth, right?

Actually, I've always imagined a plot in which, instead of ending up in the Meta World/Golden Land, they end up in Gantz. How about that?
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Old 2011-01-20, 20:05   Link #468
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It starts raining around 3:00, IIRC.
The timing of the typhoon is critical. If it had come by 6 hours earlier, then they wouldn't have been able to get to the island. If it had come by 18 hours later, it wouldn't have arrived until after everyone left.

I don't think you can predict the movement of a typhoon that precisely more than, say, a week in advance. It's going to take far more than a week to write both manuscripts.
It's raining by the time the kids are escorted to the guesthouse, so before midnight. And Typhoons aren't that hard to predict. Even so, Miracles and Certainty and yadda yadda.

Quote:
I don't think it'd be a cop-out since, in the fiction, Battler, Ange and the rest found some happiness. In the end, we cannot even tell what's real or not. As I've said before, even the "real world" events could be fictional as well, and I'm basing myself on this idea, to create yet another Meta level, and use the message of the story to create a new character for the new when they cry.

Come on, is not such a bad idea.
But it is. It invalidates the series in a way a lot of fans won't like. Atleast the Higurashi/Umineko connection is ambiguous. At the very least, it'd be more appropriate to have the next When They Cry mention that she wrote a heartlifting story about detectives and witches without absolutely confirming things one way or another, and it'd be an easier way to make this character likable and sympathetic without being a Black Hole Sue spotlight-stealer that exists just to one up the ontology of all the characters.
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Old 2011-01-20, 20:42   Link #469
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I really don't think it'd invalidate the story, considering we're dealing with a lot of fiction in Umineko, and the message was to take your own truth out of it. In the end, nothing would change, if you think about it, since the Meta would remain the same, and the characters would live there in the same way they've always had.
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Old 2011-01-20, 21:59   Link #470
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Spoiler:


Wohoho! that was kinda epic!


Quote:
"Kindly go and be consumed by this roaring vortex of truth, shades of 1986!"

"There were no words for what exceeded imagination.
Then in a flash of inspiration, he settled on 'universe'.
With each exchange between Lamdadelta and Bernkastel, a universe was born between the two.
A Big Bang occured, creating new space filled with galaxies, only to disappear again.
And after each universe-ending Big Crunch, another Big Bang would follow in the next moment and a universe is reborn anew.
It was like the playtime of the gods."

"Ah, the Sea of Fragments is vast..."
"Ghost in the Shell."
"We'll meet again someday."
"Until the next When the Whatever Cry."
"Oh that's good. Let's go with that."

Shit! that is crazy. >.>'


Does it really happen? Can anyone confirm if this is real?
Its just that I am surprised
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Old 2011-01-20, 22:57   Link #471
Ayu-ayu
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Originally Posted by Lord_Fausto View Post

Wohoho! that was kinda epic!

Shit! that is crazy. >.>'


Does it really happen? Can anyone confirm if this is real?
Its just that I am surprised
Very epic indeed. Well, I'll confirm all of MeoTwister5's account...it's even more epic in whole, unabridged form with lots of great exchanges and music all around.

The individual quotes are from my own post that I had jotted down during my playthrough--the first is something Erika says during the invasion of the Golden Land with the pirate ships. The second is what Battler is thinking while watching the Bern-LD battle from a distance away (it should be noted that earlier in the battle, when Bern's kitties merge together, they form into a giant Leviathan-like dragon). The third quote comes from the end of the Tea Party, but before the ???? portion.
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Old 2011-01-20, 22:57   Link #472
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Wohoho! that was kinda epic!
Epic? WE NEED AN ANIME FOR THAT!

Quote:
It's raining by the time the kids are escorted to the guesthouse, so before midnight. And Typhoons aren't that hard to predict. Even so, Miracles and Certainty and yadda yadda.
Everyone who has read And then there were none would question about how the murderer seems to be able to manipulate the weather.. In the end I try to ignore it as a convenient plot device, metaphor or whatever.... But are you sure both of the bottle messages is written before the event? I still don't get why Yasu has to write two of them? And if the second one includes as well the crazy battle in the Meta-world...it's very confusing. Is it to present the mystery (Legend) and the fantasy (Turn) of the story for us outside the catbox?

Oh, maybe Yasu's mind is quite confusing on its own...
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Old 2011-01-21, 01:45   Link #473
Darkpierrot
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Lambda and Bern Relationship Intrigues me......

are they Lovers Friends or Rivals?
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Old 2011-01-21, 02:25   Link #474
Ayu-ayu
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Lambda and Bern Relationship Intrigues me......

are they Lovers Friends or Rivals?
Yes. That's right.
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Old 2011-01-21, 02:30   Link #475
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They are both. Obviously. The amount of yuri fanart should be proof of that.
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Old 2011-01-21, 02:30   Link #476
AuraTwilight
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I really don't think it'd invalidate the story, considering we're dealing with a lot of fiction in Umineko, and the message was to take your own truth out of it. In the end, nothing would change, if you think about it, since the Meta would remain the same, and the characters would live there in the same way they've always had.
Except...it means that this was never Battler's and Ange's story. It's just "oh, actually, no. It was basically the equivalent of a dream that this girl you never met was having because....well...stupid drama and depression and stuff. But now she's fine."

@Bern and Lambda's fight: So basically they outdid Gurren Lagaan. Nice.
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Old 2011-01-21, 05:40   Link #477
Used Can
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Except...it means that this was never Battler's and Ange's story. It's just "oh, actually, no. It was basically the equivalent of a dream that this girl you never met was having because....well...stupid drama and depression and stuff. But now she's fine."
Personally, I don't think this never was just Battler and Ange's story, but about every single character involved. Of course, there are main characters like Battler, Beatrice (her original, and other incarnations) and Ange. But other Ushiromiyas also play a large role, and so do the other servants. This is why, I think, in EP8's cover you see most of the human side there.

In the end, we have no certainty if anything we've seen is true, but that doesn't make the story meaningless, I believe. The whole thing about looking at things with love, so that you may be able to turn an ugly/difficult situation into something positive remains there. This, I believe, is the most important thing in Umineko, above anything else. This is why I also believe a story like mine would work.

Either way, it's not as if Rei is going to be anything like that. So, no need to take it seriously.
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Old 2011-01-21, 09:01   Link #478
MeoTwister5
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First summary for today. Lambda stands alone before powers greater than her.

Spoiler for Summary:


More to follow.
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Old 2011-01-21, 09:36   Link #479
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So Featherin as the witch of Theaterviewing can rewrite a scene to her liking. What a terrible power to fight against. No idea how to oppose that.
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Old 2011-01-21, 11:42   Link #480
MeoTwister5
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Last batch before bed.

Spoiler for Summary:

Spoiler for Red Text:


Is he or is he not? Know the truth... when I get some sleep.
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