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Old 2011-08-25, 20:09   Link #1161
jjblue1
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I'm not even sure a car was mentioned... but he was definitely conscious when Ikuko found him on the street, because everything is narrated through his direct perspective, however he was unable to speak.
I read about the car in the summary. Damn, I really, really want to read this one because I wonder if it could be he was merely narrating what had happened to him and not being aware of what was happening to him and it was all written time present merely to keep up the illusion it was Ange's talking.
Was there any mention about the fact he should have been drenched? Though it probably was raining so it doesn't matter... -_- (Also Ryukishi07 said in an interview people don't get wet in Umineko so even if he should have been soaked the narrative might have overlooked it... -_-)

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Old 2011-08-25, 23:39   Link #1162
Renall
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Well he could've been injured (by Convenient Amnesia-Causing Injury X) and washed ashore somewhere disoriented and hurt, then wandered into a coastal road where Ikuko happened to be passing. Boy, good thing she's so nice and all huh?

Somethin' ain't right with her. But I digress. Assuming long-term memory loss happened you probably would end up meandering about cluelessly. Amnesias rarely affect motor memory, so you'd probably be able to walk around and all that. There's a condition called a fugue state where... well hell, let's just quote the DSM:
  • Sudden, unexpected travel away from home or one's customary place of work, with inability to recall one's past;
  • confusion about personal identity or the assumption of a new identity; or,
  • significant distress or impairment.
Fugues can be brought on by physical trauma. It's incredibly uncommon, of course, but it'd hardly be the least plausible thing in Umineko medically.
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Old 2011-08-25, 23:45   Link #1163
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Somethin' ain't right with her.
Aside from being pretty aggressively 'maybe im magic'?

Also, yea, Fugue States are probably the best way to describe Toya's condition. It'd have a bit of fridge brilliance because Fugues that recover their memories tend to lose all memory of their period in the fugue. If, hypothetically, Toya remembered his ENTIRE life of being Battler (and this would usually happen all at once instead of bit by bit), he would completely forget the 12 years he spent being Toya and be confused as all fuck.

Puts a spin on Toya being afraid of losing his identity.
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Old 2011-08-26, 07:12   Link #1164
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I still maintain that Ikuko and Featherinne are not the same entity and therefore there is absolutely nothing magical about her.
She is however a pretty "peculiar" person...
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Old 2011-08-26, 09:18   Link #1165
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I still maintain that Ikuko and Featherinne are not the same entity and therefore there is absolutely nothing magical about her.
She is however a pretty "peculiar" person...
Now I so wish I could read that part and know more about her... ;_;
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Old 2011-08-26, 15:19   Link #1166
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I still maintain that Ikuko and Featherinne are not the same entity and therefore there is absolutely nothing magical about her.
She is however a pretty "peculiar" person...
Still, she seems to skirt the line pretty damn close, with implications of never aging, comments that come REALLY close to breaking the fourth wall, and her connection to Featherine being called into question and teased with.
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Old 2011-08-26, 16:32   Link #1167
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I think you are taking a bit too seriously that single line about her age. I suppose you could say the same of San Suu Kyi there are people like that, without magic.

I don't remember a comment that broke the 4th wall from Ikuko... mind to make an example?
Mind however that in my opinion only the scenes where is referred to as "Ikuko" are real, all the rest where they call her "Tohya" are magic scenes. So basically this amounts to: the various flasbacks seen from Battler/tohya's perspective and the ura tea party. If I am correct she never uses the expression "child of man" in those.

"Featherinne/Hachijou Tohya" in my opinion is the personification of the mysterious popular author that goes with that pen name. She is actually based on two persons: "Hachijou Tohya" from which she takes the name and "Hachijou Ikuko" from which she takes the physical appearance. She is no more connected to Ikuko than to Tohya.
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Old 2011-08-26, 18:37   Link #1168
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I think you are taking a bit too seriously that single line about her age. I suppose you could say the same of San Suu Kyi there are people like that, without magic.
San Suu Kyi doesn't exist in a fictional narrative where almost every line is intended to imply something even if that thing isn't necessarily isn't true.

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I don't remember a comment that broke the 4th wall from Ikuko... mind to make an example?
I'd have to check again. I pretty much go by memory.

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"Featherinne/Hachijou Tohya" in my opinion is the personification of the mysterious popular author that goes with that pen name. She is actually based on two persons: "Hachijou Tohya" from which she takes the name and "Hachijou Ikuko" from which she takes the physical appearance. She is no more connected to Ikuko than to Tohya.
I could roll with that, I suppose.
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Old 2011-09-04, 10:31   Link #1169
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I finally read through this game

My interpretation of the story is that a magical illusion is necessary, because sometimes the truth is something very hard to accept

Spoiler:
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Old 2011-09-04, 11:57   Link #1170
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I don't know if "planned" is the right word there. If they "planned" it it means they already knew about the bomb and the gold already, but that would leave us with a question "how the hell did they know"?

If they only came to know about that after they solved the epitaph then it's more like they "executed" the crime without a real pre-planning.

Anyway I think it's almost certain that they were the main responsible for the deaths on Rokkenjima prime. Albeit it's very hard to understand if they started the killings, and if there were other murderers. Specifically it's hard (if not impossible) to guess if Yasu actually killed someone before being discovered.

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The last blow comes from the revelation of Beatrice. Beatrice is a man. A man will a malformed penis, which led to him having a gender and identity issues
I'm really not sure about neither of them. But the second one... you are forgetting that Yasu was made to work as a maid at the age of six. If anything triggered a gender identity issue, I guess it's that.
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Old 2011-09-04, 12:20   Link #1171
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Well..
Spoiler:
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Old 2011-09-04, 12:44   Link #1172
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As far as I remember the existence of fake magic circles was hinted only in EP5.

We don't even know if magic circles were used at all in Rokkenjima prime. And we are talking about Rokkenjima prime here, right? Because for what concerns the single games Ryuukishi practically confirmed that the culprit was Shannon\Yasu.

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I'm guessing this was made by Kyrie to confuse future investigators
Wait so you think Kyrie planned this without knowing about the bomb? How exactly she planned to get away with it with the crime scenes still intact and the only persons left alive being her and her closed relatives?
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Old 2011-09-04, 13:38   Link #1173
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
As far as I remember the existence of fake magic circles was hinted only in EP5.
*nods* And this could be due to the fact it wasn't Yasu who draw it but the cousins or Rosa coping one of Maria's magic circles before faking their deaths.

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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
We don't even know if magic circles were used at all in Rokkenjima prime. And we are talking about Rokkenjima prime here, right? Because for what concerns the single games Ryuukishi practically confirmed that the culprit was Shannon\Yasu.
Do you think she's the culprit in all the single games? I would bet on her in game 1, 2 & 4 but I'm not sure about game 3 & 5. I think she remained true to her rule and, once the gold was found, stopped her game which was resumed by others.
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Old 2011-09-04, 13:41   Link #1174
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If I were to guess, real Battler forced Yasu to go along with their plan in exchange for Kyrie not killing Yasu. I think real Battler wanted to protect Yasu because he loved Yasu. But Yasu already given his/her heart to George.

It's tragic.
I think Battler would try and protect everyone. Also I fear between Battler and George Yasu would chose Battler or, at best be unsure between the two or the fact he came in 1986 wouldn't have done any difference.
If Yasu had already chosen George why should Yasu care about Battler coming that day?
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Old 2011-09-04, 13:54   Link #1175
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Originally Posted by jjblue1 View Post
I think Battler would try and protect everyone. Also I fear between Battler and George Yasu would chose Battler or, at best be unsure between the two or the fact he came in 1986 wouldn't have done any difference.
If Yasu had already chosen George why should Yasu care about Battler coming that day?
Whose to say if she did? Or even if she actually existed?
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Old 2011-09-04, 18:44   Link #1176
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by jjblue1 View Post
Do you think she's the culprit in all the single games? I would bet on her in game 1, 2 & 4 but I'm not sure about game 3 & 5. I think she remained true to her rule and, once the gold was found, stopped her game which was resumed by others.
The problem with EP3 is that only "Yasu" could be the one who killed Nanjo, I don't really buy the explanation that it was Hideyoshi before collapsing, and it would make zero sense. So that basically means that we cannot really trust the promise that Beatrice would not kill anyone after the epitaph is solved.

EP5... it could be either Yasu or no death at all.
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Old 2011-09-04, 19:14   Link #1177
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
The problem with EP3 is that only "Yasu" could be the one who killed Nanjo, I don't really buy the explanation that it was Hideyoshi before collapsing, and it would make zero sense. So that basically means that we cannot really trust the promise that Beatrice would not kill anyone after the epitaph is solved.

EP5... it could be either Yasu or no death at all.
I confess I still have to study a decent solution for Ep 3... though maybe the fact that Yasu would have stopped works only in Rokkenjima Prime?
After all Toya might not remember yet this and descharge the fault on Yasu in his tale...
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Old 2011-09-04, 19:47   Link #1178
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The promise to stop, it should be noted, comes from the letters delivered to Maria, which are themselves within the box. There's no way to know if such letters were delivered on R-Prime, or whether that was ever Yasu's intention if she had any such intention on R-Prime at all.
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Old 2011-09-04, 19:53   Link #1179
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The promise to stop, it should be noted, comes from the letters delivered to Maria, which are themselves within the box. There's no way to know if such letters were delivered on R-Prime, or whether that was ever Yasu's intention if she had any such intention on R-Prime at all.
Ryukishi said something along the way of how Yasu would have respected her own game. I can't remember the right words right now but basically it said that she would have stopped if someone were to solve the epitaph. So either this refer to both Yasu, the one of the tale and the one of Rokkenjima Prime or at least to one of the two. If in the tales Yasu continue killing at least the one in Rokkenjima Prime must have stopped.
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Old 2011-09-05, 19:52   Link #1180
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Preeeetty sure, regarding EP5, Krauss is not the culprit. And he was killed long ago, shortly after you heard his voice over the phone, get it?

So "No Death" for EP5 has never sat well with me. Though really, the fake magic circles (as said, probably drawn by Rosa or a cousin) are among the least problematic elements of EP5, anyways.

And thinking on the issue of "Why the hell would Yasu kill Nanjo?", I realized that we're talking about the same emotionally overcharged girl who was did in fact, on two seperate occasions, shoot / stake herself in the damn head purely to preserve her illusion / make shit more confusing.
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