AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > General Anime

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2006-11-14, 18:48   Link #221
Sinestra
ショ ン (^^)
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Freedom Guard Ship Amaterasu
Send a message via AIM to Sinestra Send a message via MSN to Sinestra Send a message via Yahoo to Sinestra
Does anyone know how many genetic markers are shared with 1st cousins?
__________________
Sinestra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-11-14, 18:54   Link #222
ImClueless
Rawr
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
You share up to 1/8th of your genes with your cousins.

Parents 1/2, Sibs 1/2 or less, Aunt/Uncles 1/4 or less. Therefore Cousins are 1/8th or less I believe. If I am wrong then 4 years of university genetics and of my life have been wasted . The "or less" is because siblings do not always share 50% of genes due to the randomness of meiosis.
__________________

Last edited by ImClueless; 2006-11-14 at 19:26. Reason: Clarification
ImClueless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-11-14, 19:48   Link #223
Orchunter226
Is rather bored...
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Florida USA
Age: 26
The maximum of 1/8th is probably even then a rare thing. It's so random that I would say it would be somewhere between 0 and 1/8th (the two extremes) for the most part.

It's a taboo that I adhere by (probably due to how I was raised), but I really don't see that it should be that big of a deal. If two cousins want to get married, I'm not gonna be trying to stop them.
__________________
Orchunter226 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-11-14, 20:22   Link #224
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by rooboy666 View Post
At some level this is like saying "Rain is wet." Of course people prefer marrying people they know. The alternative is people you DON'T know. The Westermark effect pretty clearly demonstrates; however, that humans (and most animals) are not going to be sexually imprinted (i.e. find attractive) opposite-sex members that they are raised with. But, again, there is a big difference between "raised with" and "grew up with".
haha.. I'll assume you knew what I meant about people "knowing" each other.
In many of the anime we babble about here, the two haven't actually been raised with each other (though Lamune comes pretty close - separated by a balcony jump) but are just members of the same extended family, met at various times, and only recently are under the same roof (Elise/Hiroki, Yuuichi/Nayuki, blahblahblah). Under those situations, there is enough exposure that a crush might develop but not so much that the "Westermark effect" (thanks for the research!) engages.

I'd say it may be that the reason it may have taken the couple in Lamune so long to "notice" each other is because they were on the borderline of the westermark effect. (Now I've overused the phrase and will stop)
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-11-14, 20:33   Link #225
Onizuka-GTO
Holy Beast ~Wuff!~
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Leeds, UK
Age: 31
Send a message via MSN to Onizuka-GTO Send a message via Skype™ to Onizuka-GTO
you also have to take in the effect of the thingy watermark. That is even if the male and female siblings are adopted or not, and are raised together from a very very early age, this special psychological thing tends to suppress incesterous feelings.

edit: just read the post above. and dammit. I meant westermark, and i bet people already brought this up (loads of time), soi'll shut up about it.

mind you, personally, i don't see a problem with first cousins, or even siblings getting married, as long as they are adults of consent age, (18+) and get a genetic consultancy. After all thats the only problem with it, well unless you count your westermark effect being broken...
__________________
Onizuka-GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-11-14, 21:08   Link #226
bayoab
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImClueless View Post
You share up to 1/8th of your genes with your cousins.

Parents 1/2, Sibs 1/2 or less, Aunt/Uncles 1/4 or less. Therefore Cousins are 1/8th or less I believe. If I am wrong then 4 years of university genetics and of my life have been wasted . The "or less" is because siblings do not always share 50% of genes due to the randomness of meiosis.
I'll nail you on the math with only 1 semester of genetics for not taking the worst case scenario which is rare, but possible. We will assume no crossovers or other events that help genetic diversity. Parents = 1/2. (You get 50% of your genes from one parent). Aunts/Uncles=1/2 or less (Parents are identical twins, or even just siblings that by random chance got the same split), Cousin = less than 1/2* (if they get the identical set that you from the parent then it achieves the maximum at 22/46.) If the other set of parents are related in any way, this goes up. *Also, this is by chromosome count. The actual identical gene count can be much higher. There are genes such as eye color where there are only a handful of ways that it can come out genetically. The real catch is that a large portion of the human genome does not differ between people. Only a small % is unique enough to make each of us unique. So it isn't really 50% unique, it's really 50% of some really small number that is unique which creates a higher probability for possible problems.

Last edited by bayoab; 2006-11-14 at 21:20.
bayoab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-11-14, 21:12   Link #227
ImClueless
Rawr
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoab View Post
I'll nail you on the math with only 1 semester of genetics for not taking the worst case scenario which is rare, but possible. We will assume no crossovers or other events that help genetic diversity. Parents = 1/2. (You get 50% of your genes from one parent). Aunts/Uncles=1/2 or less (Parents are identical twins, or even just siblings that by random chance got the same split), Cousin = less than 1/2* (if they get the identical set that you from the parent then it achieves the maximum at 22/46.) If the other set of parents are related in any way, this goes up. *Also, this is by chromosome count. The actual identical gene count can be much higher. There are genes such as eye color where there are only a handful of ways that it can come out genetically.
I bow down to your worst case scenario. I didn't factor in that the aunt/uncle could be a twin which makes everything go out of whack (cousin=sibling). I should be ashamed.
__________________
ImClueless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-11-14, 21:51   Link #228
rooboy
Umeboshi!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tejas
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
haha.. I'll assume you knew what I meant about people "knowing" each other.Maybe best friend is stretching it. I agree to that.
Well, I would have known but I was thrown when you said "strangers" - I couldn't figure that strangers got married all that often. Even arranged marriages usually have meetings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
In many of the anime we babble about here, the two haven't actually been raised with each other (though Lamune comes pretty close - separated by a balcony jump) but are just members of the same extended family, met at various times, and only recently are under the same roof (Elise/Hiroki, Yuuichi/Nayuki, blahblahblah). Under those situations, there is enough exposure that a crush might develop but not so much that the "Westermark effect" (thanks for the research!) engages.
I think the only time it ever came up where I thought it should have been invoked was Elise and Hiroki, and that was a misunderstanding on my part (I was under the impression they had been raised together). Even Nanami and Ken are not raised together - so I think exceptions to it in anime are probably quite rare. The only one I can really think of is Nemu in Da Capo. And it's probably worth noting that sexual imprinting is not precisely understood. Obviously there are times when people overcome the Westermarck Effect - so some imperatives have to override it (I would imagine low population at the least). One of the interesting things about the effect is that apparently animal behavioral scientists are finding it relates to lower order animals as well. Studies have been done on how it affects wolves and penguins among other things, though they don't call it the same thing.
__________________
rooboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-11-15, 03:45   Link #229
DanielSong39
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
And even in Da Capo, it seems that Sakura was actually Jyunichi's first love. It certainly makes you think...
DanielSong39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-11-21, 13:28   Link #230
SCKnight
Mecha Pilot of the South
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Barnwell, South Carolina
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCntry View Post
Actually, you're somewhat reversed, the 'Bible Belt' states are actually well against the idea and action of incest, in and of any level. Not sure about the Amish, and as far as I know, West Virginia is the only state in the country that has a specific legislation on the books regarding incest, however that information is quite a few years old and it may have phased out quite a while back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electroguy View Post
^_^ I think you misunderstood me.

They are "against" the concept of incest as are most people.

What they do however is not representative of this.

Obviously I dont wish to generalise over millions of people over tens of states but the stereotype of the incestuous bible belt/deep south hick exists for a reason.

I saw an interesting report which pretty much showed that there is very little genetic difference in a very large amount of people that would allow the analysis to be made that over the last 200 years+ there was a lot of inbreeding going on in these areas.

I'll try to track it down for you.

By the way, South Carolina is in the Bible Belt (No, I wasn't offended). I did some research, and it turns out that I was mistaken. Marriages between cousins, even first cousins, is legal in South Carolina, despite it being a part of the Bible Belt. In fact, Greenville, SC, is part of the 'buckle' of the Bible Belt. Here are the states that allow first-cousin marriages (District of Columbia has also legalized first-cousin marriage, but it is not considered a state): Alabama, Alaska, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, Virginia. Hmm...Some of those states are actually part of the Bible Belt.
SCKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-30, 03:41   Link #231
NaniDoko
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
A reason why incest is prominent in some anime: it's legal in Japan

Incest is a common theme in some anime like Koi Kaze, Boku wa Imoto ni Koi wo Suru, Onegai Twins, Myself; Yourself, Angel Sanctuary etc...However, incest is a rarity in American movies, TV shows. Is it because the fact that consenting incest between adults is more acceptable in Japan than in America? The two cultures probably view incest somewhat differently.


http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2326110.ece

Quote:
Tainted love: Are we wrong to treat incest as a taboo?
They met, fell in love and had four children. But their story has horrified Germany. They are brother and sister, separated at birth and reunited years later. And their story is astonishingly common. Ruth Elkins reports

From that article, incest (between consenting adults) is legal in the following countries:

France
Belgium
Netherlands
Luxembourg
Portugal
Turkey
Brazil
Japan

It is also legal in Russia via google search.
NaniDoko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-30, 03:59   Link #232
jedinat
フリーター
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 28
I didn't even realize that it was illegal... though I guess I never really thought about it. *edit* nevermind
jedinat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-30, 04:39   Link #233
Oppius
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hell
Age: 29
Can be Kira and Cagalli as incest couple?

They do have crush on each other before their connection were revealed...

Yeah Maika from Magikano have creepy obsession on her brother!
Oppius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-30, 15:12   Link #234
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
I hate the title of the thread... but at least it makes it easier for me to slap the shit out of the periodic influx of idiots who keep repeating inaccurate myths about "cousin-marriage" and the like.
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-30, 15:46   Link #235
FatPianoBoy
Dansa med oss
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCKnight View Post
By the way, South Carolina is in the Bible Belt (No, I wasn't offended). I did some research, and it turns out that I was mistaken. Marriages between cousins, even first cousins, is legal in South Carolina, despite it being a part of the Bible Belt.
I've yet to find anything in the Good Book that forbids marriage between first cousins. Aunt/Nephew and Uncle/Niece, yes, but not first cousins.
__________________
FatPianoBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-30, 15:49   Link #236
tripperazn
Toyosaki Aki
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy View Post
I've yet to find anything in the Good Book that forbids marriage between first cousins. Aunt/Nephew and Uncle/Niece, yes, but not first cousins.
That's because there isn't anything in the Bible. Did European aristocrats marry cousins? Were they also Christian? They have the same answer.
__________________
tripperazn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-30, 15:51   Link #237
FatPianoBoy
Dansa med oss
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripperazn View Post
That's because there isn't anything in the Bible. Did European aristocrats marry cousins? Were they also Christian? They have the same answer.
Which is exactly my point

Although using European aristocracy as a measuring rod for acceptable Christian practices is... well, that's the fast track to getting whacked with the modstick
__________________
FatPianoBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-30, 17:30   Link #238
tripperazn
Toyosaki Aki
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy View Post
Although using European aristocracy as a measuring rod for acceptable Christian practices is... well, that's the fast track to getting whacked with the modstick
It's not really the aristocracy part I was stressing. Marriage involves a priest having to do the honors of joining the couple. I seriously doubt the guy would do anything that was explicitly prohibited in the Bible. Those guys actually studied theology and were the "professionals" in their day. That's how I know it's acceptable.
__________________
tripperazn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-30, 20:54   Link #239
aohige
( ಠ_ಠ)
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
If Sgt. Hartman was a Japanese, his immortal words of
"Hell, I like you, you can come over to my house and fuck my sister!"

would be:
"Hell, I like you, let's fuck each other's little underage sisters!"

To be honest, as much as there are incest relationships are portrayed as sexual taboos in Japanese medium, there are more incest problems going on in US than Japan. Perhaps that's precicely why it can be viewed as an interesting taboo subject, since real-life problems from it isn't as apparant.
__________________
aohige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-30, 22:06   Link #240
FatPianoBoy
Dansa med oss
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripperazn View Post
It's not really the aristocracy part I was stressing. Marriage involves a priest having to do the honors of joining the couple. I seriously doubt the guy would do anything that was explicitly prohibited in the Bible. Those guys actually studied theology and were the "professionals" in their day. That's how I know it's acceptable.
......
*Guffaws*
Send me a PM if you want to keep discussing this
__________________
FatPianoBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 00:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.