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Old 2007-12-30, 22:47   Link #241
changeup
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About other countries. As far as I know, marriages between first cousins were common in China in the past, but now the law has specifically banned this. However, marriages between second cousins are still OK.

Considering the population of China, it might not be just a few people feeling that marriage between first cousins is not OK. But anyway, is this even relevant to what we are discussing about?
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Old 2007-12-31, 04:01   Link #242
babybro
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Wow, I was going to post a topic about this in the same way. I can perfectly understand people who are relatively close to their siblings, even a sis con or bro con is tolerateable imo. But when you get into the road of incest where the sibling actually falls in love with their sister or brother, it's just plain disgusting.

Onegai Twins indeed was also twisted and I tell you why. It's not the fact that they just met, or that perhaps one could be related. It's knowning the fact that one of them CAN POSSIBLY be related to the other makes it still wrong in my opinion. I know from a personal standpoint, if I know someone can possibly be my sister or brother, no way possible would I have any sort of romantic interest in them. I don't care if we just met or not, when the possiblity is there, you shouldn't even entertain such thoughts.

One person stated that there isn't incest in anime, unfornately there is, and there is alot. The biggest and most popular being angel santuary. It seems the biggest incestral pool for animes revolves between older brother and younger sisters, not entirely sure why.

But please do not entertain the fact that this is how japanese people are. I hope everybody realise that anime especially but also manga are considered heavily by the average japanese to be specifically for nerds. Most people here in japan wish to entertain the cool factor, and if you hear the word otaku out here, people, especially women, cringe at the hedges.
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Old 2007-12-31, 04:07   Link #243
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It's not disgusting to me, nor do I know why people think it's disgusting. Note: I am an only child. I don't know how it feels like to have a sibling of a different gender. However, I've been trained to question incest (eg. I feel uncomfortable seeing an incest relationship in anime) and I try to avoid anime with incest. That aside, when I see anime with incest, I don't feel disgusted, as long as the incest doesn't completely throw the series off balance and it fits in some way. I guess I'll never find out why incest is so disgusting to some people because I'll always be an only child. All I can say is whatever laws there are, I will respect them, and that also goes for de facto practices.
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Old 2007-12-31, 11:24   Link #244
EXEs
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I find incest fine in anime/manga, and I neither oppose, or support incest. I find it acceptable both in real life and fantasy. Besides, it's love that counts, isn't it?

PS; I have younger siblings, and I don't have the slightest sexual attraction to my sister, fyi.
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Old 2007-12-31, 14:57   Link #245
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by changeup View Post
About other countries. As far as I know, marriages between first cousins were common in China in the past, but now the law has specifically banned this. However, marriages between second cousins are still OK.

Considering the population of China, it might not be just a few people feeling that marriage between first cousins is not OK. But anyway, is this even relevant to what we are discussing about?
Do you have a reference for that law because I'm not turning anything up on the net to verify it. The references for cousin-marriage I can find only note a few US states that regulate it and pretty much nowhere else on the planet.

===================
As far as attraction-to-siblings goes, there have been multiple other threads on this topic here, some of which reference scientific studies on *why* siblings are not attracted to each other. There's a strong correlation (probably pre-wired in the brain) to people raised by the same mother not being attracted to each other. That's it, no other driver. Being raised by the same mother seems to trigger a "don't mate with this one" behavior whether or not genes are shared.

The whole rest of the situation is purely social bias. As has been stated so many times in this forum now that my ears bleed when I see the topic - the taboo in some minor parts of the population against cousins marrying purely stems from the Industrial Revolution when rural folk moving to the city were considered lesser by the "urbane city folk". Cousin-marrying (quite common in villages or sparsely populated areas or tribes) was an indicator that you were from the country and "less cool" than the city dwellers.
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Old 2007-12-31, 14:58   Link #246
Typhoon_Foon
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saw a comment once about School Days regarding incest... whats that about?
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Old 2007-12-31, 15:49   Link #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhoon_Foon View Post
saw a comment once about School Days regarding incest... whats that about?
I don't know...but there isn't incest in School Days.
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Old 2007-12-31, 16:05   Link #248
Zu Ra
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I find incest disgusting I mean I aprrove of Incest ONLY if they follow the anime law ... they discover at the end they are not related .

Quote:
If a girl falls in love with her brother, somewhere down the line you discover that they're not blood related.
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Old 2007-12-31, 16:06   Link #249
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Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
I don't know...but there isn't incest in School Days.
The anime gloss over that but in the game world.


Kotonoha and Seikai are half sisters and Makoto is their Uncle as thier mothers are his half sister.

Makoto's father is even a bigger scumbag then Makoto. Committing incest with both his sister, daughter and granddaughter. Makoto is I believed his son and grandson.

For more details you need to ask in the School Day forum.
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Old 2007-12-31, 19:15   Link #250
babybro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXEs View Post
I find incest fine in anime/manga, and I neither oppose, or support incest. I find it acceptable both in real life and fantasy. Besides, it's love that counts, isn't it?

PS; I have younger siblings, and I don't have the slightest sexual attraction to my sister, fyi.
Completely disagree. Scientific studies shows that sexual intercourse and delivering of babies from siblings has a large chance of being born with deficits, more than smoking, more than age of the delivering women, because the gene's are not different enough.

Besides, the love you receive from a sibling should be different. While I do believe many things are shared. Romantic interest is a definite no-no. As a previous person mention before, I would like to ask you this question, if you find incest fine, do you mind if a incest between mother and son, father and daughter, or even father and son to be acceptable? Afterall it's the same thing.
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Old 2007-12-31, 19:48   Link #251
Ending
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Hey, gays are saying it's OK to have sex with the same sex and argue that there is no "natural disgust" beside the christian values, so guess you could say the same applies here. Who are you to oppress nice sibling love? And if you do, shouldn't you also set gays to the same line?
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Old 2007-12-31, 19:53   Link #252
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The problem is that some of our posters seem unable to differentiate between legitimate "incest" (true sibling, mother-son, etc) and "cousin-marriage" (legitimate in most of the world). The type babybro describes does have a much higher incidence of birth defect if babies are produced though I don't have the percentage handy. First-cousin-marriage offspring defects are barely above statistical noise differences (<2%). Second cousin-marriage defect rates are the same as total random.

However... romantic love is not about making babies. Its about two (or more) people being physically and emotionally attracted to each other. Assuming access to birth control allows us to focus on the core question: if no offspring are involved... is there a problem?

And, of course, two true siblings who were raised together are statistically unlikely to be attracted to each other anyway due to what is apparently genetically driven brain wiring predisposed towards aversion. And most real-world incest involves an unbalanced relationship in which one party isn't really getting to make an informed choice ...... fantasy allows us to imagine marvelous things that just may not work that way in Real Land.
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Old 2007-12-31, 20:56   Link #253
babybro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordplay View Post
Hey, gays are saying it's OK to have sex with the same sex and argue that there is no "natural disgust" beside the christian values, so guess you could say the same applies here. Who are you to oppress nice sibling love? And if you do, shouldn't you also set gays to the same line?
I do lol, I complete disagree with gays solely based on christian belief. As such I do not have any gay friends. That's just me of course and my opinion. That's why I distest all the yuri/yaoi seen in anime.


Vexx: I do not know much information behind first cousins and marriage, but as of now, I do not have any problem with it because according to christian belief, we all came the same two people, therefore theoritically making all of us cousins of some sorts. However, I do believe the op was mostly talking about sibling love, as incest is rarely used to define first cousin and cousin marrige, however that could be from a personal point of view.

Last edited by babybro; 2007-12-31 at 21:00. Reason: added information
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Old 2007-12-31, 21:09   Link #254
changeup
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Technically Makoto is Sekai's second cousin once removed.. anyway that might not be considered an incest in most countries...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
I don't know...but there isn't incest in School Days.
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Old 2007-12-31, 21:17   Link #255
changeup
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Not to insult all the religious people here, but I consider most morals and taboos about sex and marriage stemmed from ancient selection pressure to produce the largest amount of healthy offsprings.

Since now in this world, we no longer worry about birth rate to be too low (actually it is normally the opposite is given concerned: too much population growth), I believe most of the old morals are no longer suitable for our era.

This being said, I am not trying to rally the legalization of same-sex marriage or brother-sister marriage. I just want to say we should be more tolerable towards these things. As long as they are not out there hurting other people, we should just leave them to their own sexual orientation.
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Old 2007-12-31, 21:26   Link #256
babybro
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Originally Posted by changeup View Post
Not to insult all the religious people here, but I consider most morals and taboos about sex and marriage stemmed from ancient selection pressure to produce the largest amount of healthy offsprings.

Since now in this world, we no longer worry about birth rate to be too low (actually it is normally the opposite is given concerned: too much population growth), I believe most of the old morals are no longer suitable for our era.

This being said, I am not trying to rally the legalization of same-sex marriage or brother-sister marriage. I just want to say we should be more tolerable towards these things. As long as they are not out there hurting other people, we should just leave them to their own sexual orientation.

Two questions to you my friend. I assumed since you support brother-sister marriage, you also support father/daughter, mother/son, or even father/son mother/daughter marriage than correct? Or is same-sex marriage and brother-sister marriage the only one tolerable for you?

Secondly, tolerable in terms of what? I respect the right for them to do whatever they please. They have free will for a reason, and can do whatever they wish to do in their own spaces. But if it affects me in anyway, such as a scene shown in anime, or a friend revealed something like this (which never happened), than that is when I must cut the cord so to speak.
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Old 2007-12-31, 21:29   Link #257
FatPianoBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by changeup View Post
Since now in this world, we no longer worry about birth rate to be too low (actually it is normally the opposite is given concerned: too much population growth), I believe most of the old morals are no longer suitable for our era.
If we're talking the Bible, sibling marriages were a matter of necessity before the flood. In fact, the last time I checked, modern genetics supports the idea that the entire human species came from two people, so we're all in-bred
Even the very concept of marriage is a hindrance to high birth rates, as it restricts a male, who is always fertile, to one female, who is only occasionally fertile. For best results, a man would need several partners. This was common, but it was not the arrangement instituted in Genesis, meaning that that moral code was not instituted for purpose of encouraging procreation.
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Old 2007-12-31, 21:36   Link #258
aohige
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Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
I don't know...but there isn't incest in School Days.
There isn't any incest SHOWN in School Days.
However, quite a few characters are result of direct incest between a pimping asshole (Makoto's dad) and his daughter/granddaughters.
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Old 2007-12-31, 22:32   Link #259
NaniDoko
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Quote:
From that article, incest (between consenting adults) is legal in the following countries:

France
Belgium
Netherlands
Luxembourg
Portugal
Turkey
Brazil
Japan

It is also legal in Russia via google search.
One more interesting fact: Marriage is allowed for siblings in countries like Netherlands and France.

I don't know about the rest of the countries listed. I believe it is legal in a sense that you won't be prosecuted by the law if caught since it is not illegal. It's like gay couples in the USA. No marriage allow but it is not illegal (since the US Supreme Court ruling a decade ago). About 15-20 years ago, gay sex = jail in the USA.
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Old 2007-12-31, 23:13   Link #260
Siegel Clyne
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South Korean Law Prohibits Marriages Between Cousins

Pakistani couple caught between conflicting customs
Korea's rising multiculturalism indicates a need for coordination of laws and other social systems


Quote:
He [Imran Ali] recently got married to his female cousin, a common practice in Pakistan. However, he is now a South Korean because he was naturalized as a Korean citizen in April 2005. According to a South Korean law which prohibits marriages to cousins, Imran Ali's marriage has been cancelled and the couple must be separated.

Read article.

Last edited by Siegel Clyne; 2007-12-31 at 23:28.
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