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Old 2004-03-25, 21:29   Link #61
Biohazard
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Well ... to be honest, i don't see anything wrong with incest.

This might sound unbelivable or harsch ... but why is it considered that wrong? Just because it shares the same blood than you do?

I mean, c'mon ... if you love somebody , you love somebody ... and if i were to fall in love with my sister ( i don't have a sister, before people start to guess things ), then i love her, and i don't see why i shouldn't love her just because someone said it was wrong.
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Old 2004-03-26, 02:13   Link #62
shiznitty
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huh, got a good point there, but, ummm..... im not really sure what to say.
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Old 2004-03-26, 02:13   Link #63
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neon01
On an unrelated note: the intro music in Onegai Twins absolutely kicks ass. I wonder where I can get more by that artist.
You mean KOTOKO?

She recently made a major debut from Geneon. Before going major, she was called the "singing-queen of ero-games" as she did many OP songs to numerous ero-games.
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Old 2004-03-26, 02:29   Link #64
Iron Monkey
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I still think westerners are just thrown off by the whole "onii san" thing, without realizing the term "brother" or "sister" is used in a lot more general a context in the asian community than it is in the western world.

Besides, incest is wrong only because society deems it as such. I'm not saying I condone or condemn it, for my own beliefs are also a product of societal influences. But try to look at it from another point of view. If it makes you that uncomfortable, you always have the choice of not watching it.
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Old 2004-03-26, 06:38   Link #65
bluemist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Example A: Japanese national law forbids incestual relationships between siblings.
Response A: Although the Japaneses national law forbids sibling relationships it does not clearly specify that the two siblings need to be blood-related or not.

Example B: Recently the Japanese national law forbid any expression (games made after this law went into effect) of sexual conduct for a character that is under the age of 18.
Response B: The Japanese law did not state whether the character may or may not look under 18. Hence, even if the character looks like a middle-school or high-school student, the loop-hole exists where so long as we do not say they are in middle-school or high-school, or if we just state them as "all characters represented are over the age of 18" is perfectly legal.
Thanks for the info. Those are quite the loopholes they are. And therefore the 'incest' can still exist when they are not blood-related. And games or media can still provide for the lolikon fans.

But wait, does Example A and B apply to anime? If so, then a lot of shows like Onegai Twins will get in trouble. Even if the true blood-related twins is already stated in that anime, I think there would still be incestual tension between the parties, more so when the ep. 13 OVA is released.

How much 'sexual conduct' is too much for Japanese media anyway?
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Old 2004-03-26, 11:26   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemist
But wait, does Example A and B apply to anime? If so, then a lot of shows like Onegai Twins will get in trouble. Even if the true blood-related twins is already stated in that anime, I think there would still be incestual tension between the parties, more so when the ep. 13 OVA is released.

How much 'sexual conduct' is too much for Japanese media anyway?
I don't know... I don't consider a kiss to be incest... I'm fairly certain that incestual tension isn't against any law - you can only outlaw action, not feelings. We'll see where they take things in the OVA, but I highly doubt they'll go *too* far with the truly incestual relationship - the tension will still be there obviously (as Anthias said, just because you're told the truth doesn't make feelings suddenly disappear). There was really no incest in Onegai Twins.

I would have to assume that the ero-game that the Da Capo anime was based on would be pushing the envelope a bit more for Examples A and B. But, there again, they carefully explained the relationships (at least they did in the anime), and I assume they simply put the "all characters are 18 or older" disclaimer on the box. They were *very* creative to explain Sakura's appearance and fit it into the story.

Most in the anime and game industries seem to have come to a consensus that "as long as they're not truly siblings, it's not incest". Also have a consensus that, unless it's undeniable, characters in art can have the age the artists specify. The regulatory industry has, so far, not rejected that.

P.S. Slightly off topic but, now that I think about it, Onegai Teacher was really pushing things when it came to Example B.
Spoiler:
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Old 2004-03-26, 13:20   Link #67
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
P.S. Slightly off topic but, now that I think about it, Onegai Teacher was really pushing things when it came to Example B.
Spoiler:
Or to give you another example, Kira Yamato and Flay Allster in GundamSEED. There are a lot of "implied" sexual scenes in anime - but once again thanks to the works of the two regulation committees, they were able to wedge their way through the broad definition of the law which states:

"Pornography is defined as depiction of sexual intercourse when clear and visible genital interaction is visible - which must be censored."
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Old 2004-03-26, 13:34   Link #68
cf18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biohazard
This might sound unbelivable or harsch ... but why is it considered that wrong? Just because it shares the same blood than you do?
Until you make baby.

They may not teach this in school, but it should be common sense that directly related blood relative matings have a much higher chance of producing defective child. You can call it god's design or evolution mechanic, it promotes gene diversity. It is also in your tribe's interest to produce heathy child, hence laws were made.
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Old 2004-03-27, 06:46   Link #69
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Just going to state my opinion. Although i wouldn't dream engaging in incest with my sister, i don't see anything wrong with a brother and sister who are in love with each other (sexually) and engage in incest. In anime or in real-life, i don't see anything wrong with it.

Usually people who engage in incest with their siblings require a large amount of love (not sibling love) to overcome the feeling of sibling love(or emoitons) that most brother's-sister's have. So to sum it all up, i wouldn't mind a brother and sister to engage in incest due to the fact that they would truly be in love , being able to overcome the feeling of "disgust" most of us brothers/sisters have. And let's be frank, the odd's of incest happening in two continous generations are stratospherecial, and a single generation of incest wouldn't cause any real genetic harm.

The theme of OTwins was obviously to play on the emotions of brother-sister and lover-lover relationships. The show itself had no intention of promoting incest, or contained any "true" incest.

(sorry for the bad grammer/spelling, i've been awake for 49 hours strait.... need sleep)
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Last edited by Worldestroyer; 2004-03-27 at 10:25.
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Old 2004-03-27, 12:17   Link #70
Devin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldestroyer
Just going to state my opinion. Although i wouldn't dream engaging in incest with my sister, i don't see anything wrong with a brother and sister who are in love with each other (sexually) and engage in incest. In anime or in real-life, i don't see anything wrong with it.

Usually people who engage in incest with their siblings require a large amount of love (not sibling love) to overcome the feeling of sibling love(or emoitons) that most brother's-sister's have. So to sum it all up, i wouldn't mind a brother and sister to engage in incest due to the fact that they would truly be in love , being able to overcome the feeling of "disgust" most of us brothers/sisters have. And let's be frank, the odd's of incest happening in two continous generations are stratospherecial, and a single generation of incest wouldn't cause any real genetic harm.

The theme of OTwins was obviously to play on the emotions of brother-sister and lover-lover relationships. The show itself had no intention of promoting incest, or contained any "true" incest.

(sorry for the bad grammer/spelling, i've been awake for 49 hours strait.... need sleep)
Another good explaination, I agree with you. It seems most of us here are quite liberal, but that's expected of us since we are all anime fans.
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Old 2004-03-27, 19:05   Link #71
Lina Inverse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldestroyer
Just going to state my opinion. Although i wouldn't dream engaging in incest with my sister, i don't see anything wrong with a brother and sister who are in love with each other (sexually) and engage in incest. In anime or in real-life, i don't see anything wrong with it.

Usually people who engage in incest with their siblings require a large amount of love (not sibling love) to overcome the feeling of sibling love(or emoitons) that most brother's-sister's have. So to sum it all up, i wouldn't mind a brother and sister to engage in incest due to the fact that they would truly be in love , being able to overcome the feeling of "disgust" most of us brothers/sisters have. And let's be frank, the odd's of incest happening in two continous generations are stratospherecial, and a single generation of incest wouldn't cause any real genetic harm.

The theme of OTwins was obviously to play on the emotions of brother-sister and lover-lover relationships. The show itself had no intention of promoting incest, or contained any "true" incest.

(sorry for the bad grammer/spelling, i've been awake for 49 hours strait.... need sleep)
Now that fits the bill exactly
The risk of genetical damage is often greatly exaggerated. Only with relationships between parents and their childs, there is actually a noteable chance (a few percent) for genetical damage. With relationships between daughters and brothers, it's already less (perhaps 1%), and between cousins, it's considerably less (perhaps 1 per thousand).
Actually, in the late middle ages, in some places of the earth marriages among cousins were actually quite common, and nothing much happened there either.
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Old 2004-03-27, 19:14   Link #72
mantidor
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According to what i've read, most (if not all) ancient monarchies are the product of various incestual relationships. It's a way to control the power and mantain it within the same family.
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Old 2004-03-27, 19:25   Link #73
Lina Inverse
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Originally Posted by mantidor
According to what i've read, most (if not all) ancient monarchies are the product of various incestual relationships. It's a way to control the power and mantain it within the same family.
Yes, that's what I meant. It was primarily the monarchies that did it to have as few influences from strangers as possible.
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Old 2004-03-27, 22:41   Link #74
Kempis Curious
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I think that there is something built into the human psyche which turns off romantic and sexual feelings for someone you consider "family". As for first-cousins, there are differences of opinion here as to whether they are family. Those of us who were raised around our cousins are probably more likely to think of them as family, while people like me who had little interaction among our cousins wouldn't feel that way. (Add to that the fact that I have 15 direct blood aunts and uncles, many blood cousins, and since divorce is prevalent in America... step-cousins, ex-cousins, and ex-step-cousins. Would it be ok to date THOSE people?)

I also believe that most people find this built-in "family taboo" mechanism helpful more than harmful, so when it seems like it is being weakened they are offended consciously or unconsciously .

-k
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Old 2004-03-28, 11:12   Link #75
Worldestroyer
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As i said in the post above, my post above answers your question. I would also like to mention that this "human taboo" feature is not built into human beings, and is created by specific culture's. Not to mention you have a different kind of love then a normal relationship... the rest was answered in my previous post.
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Old 2004-03-28, 14:58   Link #76
JOJOS'STAR
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"Onegai Twins" was real good. Incest was part of it like some kinda fantasm as seens by us North-American or anywhere else that isn't Japan. Their culture is far less taboo about this.. Strange but that's what anime is all about.
I wouldn't be with my sister but .. I don't know if she was Jay-Lo if you know what I meen.. I guess it would be easy to ask her for a puff-puff and I would.
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Old 2004-03-28, 16:41   Link #77
nubby
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Originally Posted by Worldestroyer
Just going to state my opinion. Although i wouldn't dream engaging in incest with my sister, i don't see anything wrong with a brother and sister who are in love with each other (sexually) and engage in incest. In anime or in real-life, i don't see anything wrong with it.

Usually people who engage in incest with their siblings require a large amount of love (not sibling love) to overcome the feeling of sibling love(or emoitons) that most brother's-sister's have. So to sum it all up, i wouldn't mind a brother and sister to engage in incest due to the fact that they would truly be in love , being able to overcome the feeling of "disgust" most of us brothers/sisters have. And let's be frank, the odd's of incest happening in two continous generations are stratospherecial, and a single generation of incest wouldn't cause any real genetic harm.

OMG! Why do so many people believe that love conquers all? What about the consequences of such relationships? Everyone here is talking about genetic mutation/birth defect but what about the children's mental state when they discover they're the product of a brother and sister relationship? What about the surrounding people who'd probably look down upon and ridicule them? It would be a tough world for them.


Speaking of what's up with topic, what's up with sissy guys in anime? Kazuki in Maburaho, Shinji in Evangelion, and Nakahito in Steel Angel Kurumi , just to name a few. There are way too many sissies in animes and not enough totally kick ass guys
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Old 2004-03-28, 17:25   Link #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nubby
OMG! Why do so many people believe that love conquers all? What about the consequences of such relationships? Everyone here is talking about genetic mutation/birth defect but what about the children's mental state when they discover they're the product of a brother and sister relationship? What about the surrounding people who'd probably look down upon and ridicule them? It would be a tough world for them.


Speaking of what's up with topic, what's up with sissy guys in anime? Kazuki in Maburaho, Shinji in Evangelion, and Nakahito in Steel Angel Kurumi , just to name a few. There are way too many sissies in animes and not enough totally kick ass guys
Well... i was just saying he would require amount of love to overcome the feelings that are usually in-between brother-sister. If they wanted to marry they could move to one of the countrys or states where it is allowed. And the child's mental state will only reflect on how he is brought up. For example, most Japanese don't find incest sickening, or look down upon it (greatly) so a child from a brother/sister in that enviroment might not have that much mental stress. Although he might be sickened by it when he becomes older and understands the situation more, but nothing that could cause some one to require medication.

And for your 2nd question, those anime's play on a geeks dream. For instance a in OTeacher a small person (he could be looked at as a geek or semi-social outcast) fell into a relationship with a HOT older women througha # of completely random events that are pure luck. So it plays on your dreams of falling in love with 1/multiple EXTREAMLY attractive women.
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Old 2004-03-28, 17:29   Link #79
Lina Inverse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nubby
OMG! Why do so many people believe that love conquers all? What about the consequences of such relationships? Everyone here is talking about genetic mutation/birth defect but what about the children's mental state when they discover they're the product of a brother and sister relationship? What about the surrounding people who'd probably look down upon and ridicule them? It would be a tough world for them.
You should not imply your own intolerance for such a child
Just because you think that such a child would something very bad (because you were brought up to think it), the child itself surely wouldn't think such a thing, since its parents wouldn't tell him that.
Concerning the latter, moving into an area with less intolerant, tight-assed people would surely help.
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Old 2004-03-28, 18:18   Link #80
LinChoiSin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nubby
OMG! Why do so many people believe that love conquers all? What about the consequences of such relationships? Everyone here is talking about genetic mutation/birth defect but what about the children's mental state when they discover they're the product of a brother and sister relationship? What about the surrounding people who'd probably look down upon and ridicule them? It would be a tough world for them.
if you really want to be involved with a family member in a romantic way i guess you just have to move out and never tell anybody about it of course if you 're in love with a twin which looks exactly like you that might be more difficult.
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