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Old 2011-07-10, 06:13   Link #181
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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^Rin clearly lived with her father, as evidenced by what you pointed out earlier: the clock winding; as well as the fact she knew her way around the house, and knew what the grandfather's favorite flowers were.

As for the questions you raised in your previous post - I guess we'll never get the answer. I assume Daikichi's mother lived with Rin in the house for a little while to put things in order. I'm more surprised he managed to hide her from his whole family for what, 6 years?
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Old 2011-07-10, 06:46   Link #182
ninryu
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Great first episode. The animation was unusual and refreshing. The plot is original and interesting.

Rin is so cute. This season is gonna be full of cuteness.
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Old 2011-07-10, 07:29   Link #183
Seiryuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipodi View Post
It is not my intention to jump into a discussion on cultural differences, but since I have been accused of making "sweeping" judgments on different cultures, I need to make a few points clear.



Of course no one believes that it's "okay" to abandon a child, illegitimate or not. Americans also say it's not "okay" to suspend the Constitution and to jail people without charges. But we do it for certain "detainees."

No culture would ever support adults abandoning children. But orphanages are everywhere. Because if social, economic, and personal issues get in the way and that abandonment is necessary, then, sadly, children will be abandoned.

The argument is over whether the reasons these family members are throwing around are legitimate or not. They are legitimate. Since raising an illegitimate child is an issue.

Will anyone believe that it's okay to abandon a child, even if he or she is illegitimate? No. Do people in that culture believe that raising an illegitimate child is an issue? Yes.

Two separate issues.



How children are treated at home and by society in general do not tell us about the stigma carried by illegitimate children.



Making a general statement about the people in certain culture does not mean I am making a "sweeping judgment." Similarly, it is correct to say that America is more religious than most other Western countries, despite the fact that we have many atheists and do respect people's religious freedom. The statement is not a sweeping judgment. It's an accurate comment that pointed out the salient features of a particular society and/or culture, in comparison with other societies/cultures.

As for your rationale, that because Asians would laud Daikichi's deed, it must mean what he did represents the cultural norms. I will present an alternative explanation. People who have recognized the shortcomings of their own values and culture and aspire to transcend beyond them deserve our praises - this is a universal feature. Asians would see Daikichi as a hero because he has done the right deed, despite the cultural limitations. He is not being cheered because his actions represent the Asian cultures.



My position should be straightforward. People are products of their culture, whether they want to be or not. Therefore, people who follow certain culture norms that we disagree with deserve our understanding. It is the culture that promoted the bad behaviors that deserves our criticisms.

Do we blame Arab women for putting on a hijab and perpetuating gender inequality? No. Do we blame the fundamentalist segment of the Arab culture for creating the inequality? Yes.



First, of course it is not okay to abandon a child. Just because I don't think that we should attack people for failing to do something even though we are unwilling to do it ourselves, it doesn't mean I support child abandonment. So let's clear up that misconception.

Second, just because "Western" perspective takes economic liabilities into account (this is definitely a false characterization of Western culture; I am also fairly certain that the concept of "social prestige" is not uniquely Western), it doesn't mean Westerners believe that it's okay to abandon children.

Extending understanding to the family members, and believing that one should withhold judgments on people who would refuse to resume the legal guardianship that we ourselves would also refuse to resume, does not mean I believe adults can or should abandon a child the moment he or she becomes an inconvenience.

========================================


If this was made in response to my posts, then I wish to make it clear that I never suggest that any culture would thinks it is okay to abandon a child. Some cultures would find it difficult to take in an illegitimate child, thus, they are unlikely to take in a child whom they think do not belong to the family. In this case, child abandonment may be the unfortunate end result. But, in no culture would people accept child abandonment.
OK, I'm going to ask that we call a truce here. I and some other parties consider the behavior of Daikichi's family and their treatment of Rin to have been offensive and something of which they should be truly ashamed. You and some parties do not. I doubt this is going to change. Fortunately, the family does improve from what I've read, and the behavior seems to a certain extent to be a matter of the initial shock.

I myself would not feel so bad if the family hadn't repeatedly created completely bogus arguments such as imaginary mental handicaps or the possibility that she's not related at all. Arguing about real issues is one thing, but I don't like them making things up.

I hope we can agree on at least two things: first, it was inappropriate to suggest that the unknown mother had cheated and Rin was someone else's child while still mourning the old man's death (and from the voice it sounded like it might have been that man's own daughter); second, Daikichi was very impressive for having chosen to take the girl in and become her long-term guardian.

We're not going to agree about the family's behavior, and I'd rather this thread didn't become dominated by a debate on that one matter. As I said, from the manga the family's attitude seems to be partially an initial reaction to the shock. More importantly however, the story is more focused on Daikichi and Rin's life, and the numerous struggles that you yourself have mentioned.

I still wish that Daikichi's thoughts and response had been included, because his opinion and indignation was a part of what led him to make the choices he made.
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Old 2011-07-10, 08:56   Link #184
jeroz
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Feel like a properly-done, less-commercialised version of a misunderstood show I follow last season. At least it continues the theme of a young dad bonding with and caring for a young daughter.
This is my most anticipated show of the season (the other one being another rabbit), and it certainly didn't disappoint me. The tone, the atmosphere and the overall execution is just quite awesome.
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Old 2011-07-10, 09:20   Link #185
risingstar3110
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Have just started watching ep 1

A perfect set-up and have real potential to become a great series. I can't wait for next episode

Such a cute aunt he had there
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Old 2011-07-10, 09:34   Link #186
LKK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I assume Daikichi's mother lived with Rin in the house for a little while to put things in order.
I'm very confused as to why you assume Daikichi's mother lived with Rin for any length of time? Could you explain why you think so?
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Old 2011-07-10, 09:38   Link #187
risingstar3110
Dead Master ★ BRS
 
 
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Btw, can i just be ignorant and assume whatever the second part of the manga about, was: Rin grew up to high school girl, Daikichi marry and have some kids. Then the show turn into school life/romance/ comedy genre?


Otherwise, with the way you guys kept hinting at how bad the second half is, i may start to image the screen of Dakichi (which is 42 then) flirting with his aunt (who is 18). *self face palm*
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Old 2011-07-10, 09:47   Link #188
wandering-dreamer
reads too much
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: you know that's a great question.....
You're free to assume anything you want.

Also, about those flowers, wasn't there a line in the manga where Daikichi realizes that Rin must be his grandfather's child since her named her after his favorite flowers? I thought that was part of the significance of the flowers at the end.
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Old 2011-07-10, 10:18   Link #189
keri
ねぇ、知ってる?
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
^Rin clearly lived with her father, as evidenced by what you pointed out earlier: the clock winding; as well as the fact she knew her way around the house, and knew what the grandfather's favorite flowers were.

As for the questions you raised in your previous post - I guess we'll never get the answer. I assume Daikichi's mother lived with Rin in the house for a little while to put things in order. I'm more surprised he managed to hide her from his whole family for what, 6 years?
But if she lived there, what was she doing all alone with a dead guy in the house...

I didn't get the impression that Daikichi's mom spent any time with Rin at all. I think if she had, she wouldn't ignore Rin so completely. Anyway, I'll probably never find out what was going on with Rin then, and I'll have to live with it. :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer View Post
You're free to assume anything you want.

Also, about those flowers, wasn't there a line in the manga where Daikichi realizes that Rin must be his grandfather's child since her named her after his favorite flowers? I thought that was part of the significance of the flowers at the end.
Yeah, that's why the episode title was translated as "The Bellflower Girl" and CR left the "Rindou" untranslated with that damn note. Plus, she's holding the flower when Daikichi first encounters her in the garden. I guess for Japanese viewers, the link between Rin and Rindou would be more obvious.

I kind of liked the line about "Ah, Rindou was grandfather's favorite".
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Old 2011-07-10, 11:37   Link #190
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKK View Post
I'm very confused as to why you assume Daikichi's mother lived with Rin for any length of time? Could you explain why you think so?
Simply because organizing funerals take a while and someone has to have taken care of Rin in the meantime. Daikichi's mom strikes as me as the most likely candidate because she talked about Rin the most out of all the relatives. She's the one who said she was not very proper and that she was "slow", she must have interacted with her a bit to throw around that kind of judgment (which was completely wrong -- Rin was simply shy and very confused).

Quote:
Originally Posted by keri View Post
i didn't get the impression that Daikichi's mom spent any time with Rin at all. I think if she had, she wouldn't ignore Rin so completely. Anyway, I'll probably never find out what was going on with Rin then, and I'll have to live with it. :P
She might have started ignoring her after Rin refused to talk to her.
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Old 2011-07-10, 12:16   Link #191
LKK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Simply because organizing funerals take a while and someone has to have taken care of Rin in the meantime. Daikichi's mom strikes as me as the most likely candidate because she talked about Rin the most out of all the relatives. She's the one who said she was not very proper and that she was "slow", she must have interacted with her a bit to throw around that kind of judgment (which was completely wrong -- Rin was simply shy and very confused).



She might have started ignoring her after Rin refused to talk to her.
Okay, I see where you're coming from now. I hadn't thought of the few days between the death and the funeral as being the time period you were referring to. You're likely right in that Daikichi's mom did have more time to interact (or try to interact) with Rin in that time period than most of the other relatives as she was probably in charge of preparing the house for the funeral.
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Old 2011-07-11, 20:15   Link #192
Theowne
耳をすませば
 
 
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Looks like I have a second anime to follow this season. Finally, that Noitamina charm again.

Edit: Could have done without reading the not-so-subtle manga comments.
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Old 2011-07-11, 20:41   Link #193
Matheson
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Was kinda slow, but hey it's only the first episode right?

During the first scene (before the OP), I was very worried that the animation style was going to be like that for the whole thing. Thankfully not.
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Old 2011-07-11, 21:05   Link #194
Seiryuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
Looks like I have a second anime to follow this season. Finally, that Noitamina charm again.

Edit: Could have done without reading the not-so-subtle manga comments.
I must concur there. I haven't read even up to the time skip, and certain future plot points worry me.
Spoiler:
However, that is ten years and many episodes away.

I kind of wonder whether the animators are worried about lolicon issues slipping in. I didn't notice until I re-read the first volume after watching ep1, but in the manga when Rin jumps out of the house for the flowers, her dress flies up. It's that sort of panty-shot that in every way seems more to convey the youth and innocence of the child, and the absolute absence of anything anyone should question. If it was simply cut because they saw no real point to it, that's good. There is nothing loli about this, and there never will be.
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Old 2011-07-11, 21:19   Link #195
Theowne
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I think you misunderstood me. I haven't read the manga. I just feel that cryptic manga comments don't really belong in the anime thread, particularly when not tagged, but I guess that ship has sailed.
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Old 2011-07-11, 22:16   Link #196
creb
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You know you're living the good life when you find the time to get outraged over fictional events.

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Old 2011-07-11, 22:16   Link #197
00Coyote
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Daikichi, without a doubt is the manliest, most heroic male lead of the season.
He's got cojones the size of boulders.

One does not simply take in a small child to raise, and walk away unchanged.


Edit:
After further though, being manliest of the season isn't all that high of praise.
The bar is set very, very low. Regardless, the dude has guts.

Last edited by 00Coyote; 2011-07-11 at 22:48. Reason: The I realized I was watching anime
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Old 2011-07-12, 02:01   Link #198
pampz21
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Refreshing....

Like the manga but the 2nd half was a let down...but the anime would probably good..or better
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Old 2011-07-12, 04:59   Link #199
Seiryuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
I think you misunderstood me. I haven't read the manga. I just feel that cryptic manga comments don't really belong in the anime thread, particularly when not tagged, but I guess that ship has sailed.
I was also referring to things I'd heard about the future of the series. As I said, I haven't made it to the time skip.
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Old 2011-07-12, 12:45   Link #200
Kaoru Chujo
Minase Inori
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
I think you misunderstood me. I haven't read the manga. I just feel that cryptic manga comments don't really belong in the anime thread, particularly when not tagged, but I guess that ship has sailed.
Cryptic manga comments do not belong in the anime thread. That ship should turn around and come back to port. One spoiler can ruin a whole show for someone.

It's okay to talk about how the manga did some event that has already passed in the anime, but the slightest hint of what's going to happen in the future -- under spoiler tags or not -- is against the rules.

I know how tempting it is to hint about some interesting thing to come. I've done it myself. But I shouldn't have.
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