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Old 2011-01-11, 13:25   Link #41
felix
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Like the idea of a "theme".
Don't like the idea of a "genre".
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Old 2011-01-11, 17:42   Link #42
Suomi
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I agree on an "idea" for the theme. For example "it must include elements of this" or just be thematic or have a certain tone
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Old 2011-01-11, 19:09   Link #43
felix
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I'd say "the idea" must never force a genre. Or favor one (too much). So anything that can't be precisely pinned to any officially recognized genres (better to just have a list setup), or doesn't exclude any particular genere, would be fine. By going with a definition of what you want you can avoid corner cases, or "interpretation of the rules".

For example, going by your words Illu, if you say "it must include cherry trees and puberty" you force a romance genre. But if you say "it must include vampires" that could be anything. Both of them can be considered "themes" or "ideas" or what chu'wanna call em.
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Old 2011-01-12, 02:05   Link #44
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I love to write, but not fanfiction. Fantasy writing wasn't my type.

Still I would like to join. Sounds fun.....and better than gawping at people who have photoshop.
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Old 2011-01-12, 23:27   Link #45
Otsdarva
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I love to write, but not fanfiction. Fantasy writing wasn't my type.

Still I would like to join. Sounds fun.....and better than gawping at people who have photoshop.
Ohhh boy, I can just imagine Saint curbstomping everybody.


The theme of, instead the genre of, would be far less discriminating than choosing or subverting a genre into a specific theme. The theme should remain entirely vague, so the drop of a specific genre or scenario could be avoided altogether. That way people will be subjective about the method, reaching a diverse and fair standard. Of course, long as the theme itself follows the rules with little to no rule bending there shouldn't be a problem.

I'm going to go with Fel's example: If the theme is "Vampire", then you could probably think up quite a few things. Mystery, romance, school life as/with a vampire, etcetera.

If you remain vague in the specifics, the possibilities will both be more diverse and more creative.

I think that settles the 'theme' debate.
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Old 2011-01-13, 00:31   Link #46
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Just wanted to thank you all for helping bring this idea to life

I like the idea of the themes, and Cello there has summed up the reason why How should we go about starting this thing off?
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Old 2011-01-13, 00:49   Link #47
Otsdarva
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post
Just wanted to thank you all for helping bring this idea to life

I like the idea of the themes, and Cello there has summed up the reason why How should we go about starting this thing off?
Just work out the rules, pick up a particular concept (like having it open-ended, or have poetry and stories as their own fields.)

I say the current, most flexible and most reliable are the best. You should probably read back a bit, since we've been going on about this for a few days now. Subjectively, I have to say I wouldn't like to see categories like poetry or short stories. Diversifying in that manner won't help, you have to make it jointed and open. We also don't know how many people will participate, so I'd refrain from the categorization overall.

This is still a competition, there also needs to be some standards and qualifications for the entries. (amount of words, maximum amount of words, use spellcheck... etcetera.) I think choosing quality of the overall competition while remaining in the neutral zone while also having flexible rules and themes should, idealistically, help it in the end.
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Old 2011-01-13, 02:09   Link #48
felix
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Mario can you create a draft based on the current discussion? That should bring forward any points that need to be addressed. It will also be easier to notice what specifics/procedures can be streamlined.

Some things that still need addressing,
  • will there be some specific handling for "story continuations" between contests
  • contest phases and duration of each phase, as well as the procedures
  • what will be the contest name; pretty much anything containing the word "fanfiction" seems to be out, given the number of people in this thread alone who understand it as "no 100% original stories"
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Old 2011-01-13, 02:12   Link #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
Mario can you create a draft based on the current discussion? That should bring forward any points that need to be addressed. It will also be easier to notice what specifics/procedures can be streamlined.

Some things I that still need addressing,
  • will there be some specific handling for "story continuations" between contests
  • contest phases and duration of each phase, as well as the procedures
  • what will be the contest name; pretty much anything containing the word "fanfiction" seems to be out, given the number of people in this thread alone who understand it as "no 100% original stories"
Certainly. Allow me a short amount of time to compile something that is fair, appealing to everyone, and somewhat challenging.

I will keep everything that everyone suggested in mind~
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Old 2011-01-15, 08:31   Link #50
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Overview

Elementary, My Dear AnimeSuki
"The pen is mightier than the sword."



What is it?
EMDAS is a monthly contest based on SOTM, with a focus on composition of a literary sense instead of an artistic one. It is open to all members of AnimeSuki, and aspires to promote creativity and a desire to improve one's personal skills in composition.

Much like the SOTM contest, EMDAS allows 2 weeks for composing/submitting your entries, one week for voting, and one week off until the next competition begins. Whoever wins the competition is given the right to decide the following month's theme.


How should themes be decided?
At the end of every month, a winner is chosen and he/she gets to decide what next month's theme will be. The theme must apply to a generally writable topic and specifics such as anime series and characters are frowned upon. For example, a good topic would be "vacation" as it allows for any user to step in and write about, while a topic like "Suzumiya Haruhi" will limit entries to the people who know more about the series and character.

As you've probably figured out by now, a theme cannot be used more than once. All themes must not involve anything that violates AnimeSuki's rules and regulations, and it cannot be 18+; let us make sure that this contest can be kept relatively clean for whatever aged reader/writer that comes along.


So, what are the rules?
1. Within the first 2 weeks of the month, the competition sits in a "creation/submission" phase. During this time, contestants may upload as many entries and edits as you like, in order to receive constructive criticism and maybe even proofread.
1A. While you are allowed to make as many edits and uploads as you wish in the submission phase, you must decide on a single finished product as your final entry. This must be submitted by posting the finished product with the words: "Final Entry" before the submission phase ends.
1B. Keep in mind that all entries need to have a minimum of 5 words, and a maximum of 1000. This will prevent entries that are far too long and unfair for the others.

2. All entries must be written in English. Multilingual entries may confuse the readers and voters.
2A. All entries must use the standard, easy-to-read Arial or Times New Roman font. You must also refrain from using effects such as coloured and bold/italic/underlined text.
2B. To convey certain emotions, use proper punctuation and capitalization of letters. Also, be sure to proofread your entries to avoid grammar and spelling errors. All text should be aligned to the left, unless the entry requires otherwise. If you are to write dialogue between characters, bold lettering is allowed in listings.

Code:
Captain"Ship to starboard Mr. Hanks!"
Navigator"Aye captain." the navigator whispered.

3. Any form of composition can be submitted. Be it a haiku, short story, article, sonnet, limerick, ballad, lyrics, or anything else you can think of, be sure to remember the word count limit.


4. All entries must be completely original. Copying/pasting excerpts from existing works is considered plagiarism and will result in an immediate disqualification.
4A. There will be times when you need to use quotations from an existing piece of composition. When you do use a quote, be sure to place the entire phrase in "quotation marks".
4B. In the spirit of originality, it is recommended (but not required) that you create a new entry instead of re-using existing works.

5. Contestants who wish to keep their entries private until after the submission phase had ended may private message the contest organizer with their entry. These entries will automatically be posted on the following voting thread to await judgement.


6. If a submission appears to be offensive or reportable in any way, edit out said material before posting an entry.


What are we competing for?

I certainly hope for fun! The winner of every month's competition is given permission to choose the next contest theme, and (if permitted by the AS Staff) will have their winning entry added to the EMDAS Hall of Fame Thread for easy accessibility.


So, is that it?

It certainly is! February 2011 is when the first EMDAS Competition will begin. If you'd like to help with organization/management, be sure to send me a direct private message and I will get back to you.
"...And that was all she wrote."



This is just the basic outline. If anyone has suggestions, additions or opinions for the current overview, please let me know and I can change it, if need be. We also need to vote on the first month's theme!
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Old 2011-01-15, 09:22   Link #51
milan kyuubi
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You did a very good job at this The only thing I think it needs to be changed is the amount of words allowed in entry. 5 words are just to little and 1000 are not enough. Wouldn't be better to have 500 as min and 5000 words as max? I don't think that any author will have enough space to create the certain theme and make it 'realistic' with just 1000 words allowed. I created one fic in the past with 1400+ words and when I finished it it looked very small and you can read it in about a minute or even faster. I don't think the quality of the pic can be expressed in only 1000 words. Of course authors don't need to feel the need to use all 5000 words.

Quote:
This will prevent entries that are far too long and unfair for the others.
Is isn't also unfair for members who can write longer fics but are unable because of the rules?

Also I have a question about theme's? Going by your example 'vacation'. So do I need to create a whole new characters for this theme? Or can I include already existing characters from anime? Or even can we use character that are not even from anime (characters from books, movies, tv shows etc)?

Also why are italic/bold not allowed? Italic can be very useful for authors to express their characters inner thoughts.
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Old 2011-01-15, 10:32   Link #52
felix
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I like the idea of having a funny title, but I feel "Elementary, My Dear AnimeSuki" is a little too ambiguous. It took me a while to figure out that was actually the title, and I'm sure someone just browsing threads would not be able to figure out what the thread is about from that title. Keeping to the idea of humor, how about something like "Animesuki Writer's-Block Contest". (can't seem to think of one that would abbreviate to only ABC)

Quote:
Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
The only thing I think it needs to be changed is the amount of words allowed in entry. 5 words are just to little and 1000 are not enough. Wouldn't be better to have 500 as min and 5000 words as max? I don't think that any author will have enough space to create the certain theme and make it 'realistic' with just 1000 words allowed. I created one fic in the past with 1400+ words and when I finished it it looked very small and you can read it in about a minute or even faster. I don't think the quality of the pic can be expressed in only 1000 words.
Since the limit is suppose to apply to both poetry and prose, I say a minimum should not exist. It's hard to write poetry of 500 words when you're aiming for something like two or three words per verse.

As for maximum. Personally I'd say around 2000, though 1000 seems a interesting limit to me. My opinion is that the length should be somewhat of a contest constraint (or challenge) so that readers are easily able to read though all entries, and also so that writers are forced into writing quality rather then quantity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
Is isn't also unfair for members who can write longer fics but are unable because of the rules?
You can't be equally fair to everyone. I think a lower limit (rather then a larger limit) would make the contest more accessible; assuming that's what we want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
Also why are italic/bold not allowed? Italic can be very useful for authors to express their characters inner thoughts.
While I agree with you, there are very few cases where it's function goes beyond simply a stylistic choice.
eg.

Jhon and his family boarded the Queen Merry; little did they know of the dangers ahead.
Jhon and his family boarded the "Queen Merry"; little did they know of the dangers ahead.
Jhon and his family boarded the Queen Merry; little did they know of the dangers ahead.
Wikipedia has a somewhat complete list of use cases.

My personal take on it is since this is a writing contest one should focus on writing. If a certain word doesn't stand out then perhaps the problem is not that it wasn't in bold, italic or some fancy text, but rather that your choice of words was very poor. Also, people here very rarely use formating properly. Most cases I find involve people just use italic for their entire sentence or even their entire post (among other formatting). There was a thread about it as well... I'd say if italic formatting is allowed (bold is utterly useless btw) then there should be very precise use cases, so that everyone uses it the same (and properly).
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Old 2011-01-15, 11:43   Link #53
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Quote:
1B. Keep in mind that all entries need to have a minimum of 5 words, and a maximum of 1000. This will prevent entries that are far too long and unfair for the others.
There are no hard-and-fast rules for ideal story length in any form of composition. The word limit should therefore be a general guideline rather than a strict upper bound.

Furthermore, I'm of the opinion that the choice of format should determine the length of submission. A 1,000-word poem would be a fairly intimidating read. Conversely, a 1,000-word short story/novella would be, well, a bit bare.

Which brings me to my second comment:
Quote:
3. Any form of composition can be submitted. Be it a haiku, short story, article, sonnet, limerick, ballad, lyrics, or anything else you can think of, be sure to remember the word count limit.
It would be difficult to judge a poem against a short story. It'll be like comparing apples to oranges. Poetry and prose are different forms of literature, involving different kinds of literary technique. In that light, I feel it'll be better to decide beforehand which kinds of submission would be accepted in a given month.

Quote:
1. Within the first 2 weeks of the month, the competition sits in a "creation/submission" phase. During this time, contestants may upload as many entries and edits as you like, in order to receive constructive criticism and maybe even proofread.
Sounds like a good idea, as long as the contestant is receptive to feedback. After all, there's always the chance that not all criticism would be constructive.

================
Quote:
2B. To convey certain emotions, use proper punctuation and capitalization of letters. Also, be sure to proofread your entries to avoid grammar and spelling errors. All text should be aligned to the left, unless the entry requires otherwise. If you are to write dialogue between characters, bold lettering is allowed in listings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
My personal take on it is since this is a writing contest one should focus on writing. If a certain word doesn't stand out then perhaps the problem is not that it wasn't in bold, italic or some fancy text, but rather that your choice of words was very poor.
The late American poet e. e. cummings would beg differ.

I would keep an open mind with regard to punctuation. A skilled writer would know how best to use punctuation for effect, especially in poetry, where punctuation can have very significant impact on how a verse/stanza is meant to be read.

Of course, in most cases, lapses in punctuation are really just that — lapses. But it can be hard to tell in advance, so I think this is something that needs to be judged on a case-by-case basis.
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Old 2011-01-15, 15:39   Link #54
Hiroi Sekai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
You did a very good job at this The only thing I think it needs to be changed is the amount of words allowed in entry. 5 words are just to little and 1000 are not enough. Wouldn't be better to have 500 as min and 5000 words as max? I don't think that any author will have enough space to create the certain theme and make it 'realistic' with just 1000 words allowed. I created one fic in the past with 1400+ words and when I finished it it looked very small and you can read it in about a minute or even faster. I don't think the quality of the pic can be expressed in only 1000 words. Of course authors don't need to feel the need to use all 5000 words.
As mentioned, this is a general writing competition; poetry at the very least would be difficult to write with a 500 minimum setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
Is isn't also unfair for members who can write longer fics but are unable because of the rules?
Actually, no. A good writer also knows how to summarize; it's always better to open more up to the general public, instead of the few members that can write longer entries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
Also I have a question about theme's? Going by your example 'vacation'. So do I need to create a whole new characters for this theme? Or can I include already existing characters from anime? Or even can we use character that are not even from anime (characters from books, movies, tv shows etc)?
I suppose I should have elaborated more on this! I see little trouble in using characters from existing anime/other sources; it certainly allows for a personal-level entry, but once again, if somebody hasn't watched Naruto then they'd have no idea who Sasuke is. If you start adding specific character traits, you'll probably lose the vote due to confusion. Imagine if I wrote something like: "Haruhi was being her usual self again today. She was in the SOS clubroom since 9 AM today; she just had to call us over on a Saturday." Haruhi and the SOS clubroom are already starting to take away the setting for those who haven't heard of Haruhi before. I'll also lightly stress that there's always a risk of spoilers when we tread this territory as well; can't have an entry filled with spoilers or even spoiler boxes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
Also why are italic/bold not allowed? Italic can be very useful for authors to express their characters inner thoughts.
*points down at felix's response* And trust me, I wish we could have them

Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
I like the idea of having a funny title, but I feel "Elementary, My Dear AnimeSuki" is a little too ambiguous. It took me a while to figure out that was actually the title, and I'm sure someone just browsing threads would not be able to figure out what the thread is about from that title. Keeping to the idea of humor, how about something like "Animesuki Writer's-Block Contest". (can't seem to think of one that would abbreviate to only ABC)
I must admit that EMDAS was formulated over a very short period of time. I had the basic thought of "taking a famous literary quote and introducing AS' presence." Do you think you didn't recognize it because of how the post was laid out in a table style? If you look at SOTM's threads, they're actually quite ambiguous as well; who would know what SOTM stood for until they clicked on it and found out? It would only be a matter of time until any name catches on and people know about it; if permitted, we will have additional topics for the competition as well, where people can read up on what it's all about. I'm not defending my title here (actually, maybe I am...a little), but all I'm saying is that any name we come up will have the same effect. (What is the difference between ABC and EDMAS if you don't know what either is at first?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
Since the limit is suppose to apply to both poetry and prose, I say a minimum should not exist. It's hard to write poetry of 500 words when you're aiming for something like two or three words per verse.
Oh, you answered this too^^ The minimum only exists because...well, imagine a <5 word entry; even in poetry, it's too short. I think I've said enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
As for maximum. Personally I'd say around 2000, though 1000 seems a interesting limit to me. My opinion is that the length should be somewhat of a contest constraint (or challenge) so that readers are easily able to read though all entries, and also so that writers are forced into writing quality rather then quantity.
Both you and MK make a fair argument here, but I think 1000 words is a decent limitation. A good writer will be able to condense their writing into the limit, and the more words we allow, the more chances we give for a voter to get caught in a single story and forget about the other unique entries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
You can't be equally fair to everyone. I think a lower limit (rather then a larger limit) would make the contest more accessible; assuming that's what we want.
I agree with this; it will definitely allow the more casual writers to feel like they have a chance. Pitting together a 50 word entry with either a 1000 word entry one with 2000; you can probably see how much more difficult it becomes for the 50 word entry. Of course, a good writer can utilize their writing space and use a very small amount of words to win the readers over, but a smaller limit will make it fair for everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
While I agree with you, there are very few cases where it's function goes beyond simply a stylistic choice.
eg.

Jhon and his family boarded the Queen Merry; little did they know of the dangers ahead.
Jhon and his family boarded the "Queen Merry"; little did they know of the dangers ahead.
Jhon and his family boarded the Queen Merry; little did they know of the dangers ahead.
Wikipedia has a somewhat complete list of use cases.
Quite a detailed explanation. Thanks for writing it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
My personal take on it is since this is a writing contest one should focus on writing. If a certain word doesn't stand out then perhaps the problem is not that it wasn't in bold, italic or some fancy text, but rather that your choice of words was very poor. Also, people here very rarely use formating properly. Most cases I find involve people just use italic for their entire sentence or even their entire post (among other formatting). There was a thread about it as well... I'd say if italic formatting is allowed (bold is utterly useless btw) then there should be very precise use cases, so that everyone uses it the same (and properly).
I like this. As I always say: "A good writer can get their message across, no matter the limitations and circumstances." If a reader likes your entry, then they can also go to your fanfiction posts (should you have any), where you're allowed to use all the bold/italics/underlines you want

[QUOTE=TinyRedLeaf;3439637]There are no hard-and-fast rules for ideal story length in any form of composition. The word limit should therefore be a general guideline rather than a strict upper bound.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Okay yes, I assume you mean how I worded that segment? I agree with what you're saying (if that is what you meant), and will change it to sound less strict.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Furthermore, I'm of the opinion that the choice of format should determine the length of submission. A 1,000-word poem would be a fairly intimidating read. Conversely, a 1,000-word short story/novella would be, well, a bit bare.

Which brings me to my second comment:


It would be difficult to judge a poem against a short story. It'll be like comparing apples to oranges. Poetry and prose are different forms of literature, involving different kinds of literary technique. In that light, I feel it'll be better to decide beforehand which kinds of submission would be accepted in a given month.
All good points. The thing is, we're not going for a novella competition here, but rather a "general writing" contest. The goal isn't to write a long story, but rather a short one that applies to a theme. I can't stress this enough, but a good writer is able to meet this limitation and get their whole story across.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Sounds like a good idea, as long as the contestant is receptive to feedback. After all, there's always the chance that not all criticism would be constructive.
This is the way SOTM works, and I thought it would be good to follow. I will make an amendment to promote constructive criticism and avoid pointless flaming/personal negative opinions.

================




The late American poet e. e. cummings would beg differ.

I would keep an open mind with regard to punctuation. A skilled writer would know how best to use punctuation for effect, especially in poetry, where punctuation can have very significant impact on how a verse/stanza is meant to be read.

Of course, in most cases, lapses in punctuation are really just that — lapses. But it can be hard to tell in advance, so I think this is something that needs to be judged on a case-by-case basis.
I knew this would come up; there are many writers who can use proper punctuation to accentuate their thoughts, but that's the small problem we face. It now becomes good writers versus novice writers, and those who can't use proper punctuation yet will be put at a strong disadvantage. Proper punctuation does not just come from looking it up on Wikipedia; it's a skill that you gradually pick up over time. We need to remember that this contest will be for the entirety of AnimeSuki members.


P.S. Thanks for all the feedback, everyone^^
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Old 2011-01-15, 17:21   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
Wouldn't be better to have 500 as min and 5000 words as max?
Even though there have been other arguments for and against this I do have to point out a few quick things about this statement.

1) A Haiku, by English standards (Far different than the true standard according to wikipedia) because the entries must be in English, is a poem of three lines and contains a maximum of 17 syllables. That means that if the minimum word count for each entry is 500 words a Haiku could not be used.

2) I've come across very well written one-shots that contained more than 5,000 words and I've written a story who's first chapter had well over 5,000 words in it. That being said even 5,000 words can be seen as too short of a limit.

3) As stated before the longer the entries are the more intimidated new writers may feel. If I were new to writing and wanted to enter a contest and all of my competitors were stories and poems with 2,000+ words I wouldn't even think twice about quiting then and there.

I do wish the maximum word limit was higher but I completely understand the need for it. And I agree with everyone who says that being limited to only 1,000 words will be an interesting challenge. By the way I like all of the other rules. However I do think we should do it by category. One for Haikus, one for poems, and one for stories. As was said before comparing poems and stories is really hard to do.
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Old 2011-01-15, 18:26   Link #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikabane_Hime View Post
By the way I like all of the other rules. However I do think we should do it by category. One for Haikus, one for poems, and one for stories. As was said before comparing poems and stories is really hard to do.
If you do it this way, this could solve the concern about length, as different categories could have different size restrictions. The submitter would identify the category of their submission, if it isn't obvious. But the only problem is how to pick a single overall winner to choose the theme for the next month; perhaps a winner is selected in all three categories and then a selection is made between those three? Still very difficult...
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Old 2011-01-15, 18:44   Link #57
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
If you do it this way, this could solve the concern about length, as different categories could have different size restrictions. The submitter would identify the category of their submission, if it isn't obvious. But the only problem is how to pick a single overall winner to choose the theme for the next month; perhaps a winner is selected in all three categories and then a selection is made between those three? Still very difficult...
well...we could have a theme for each category? though that would still be difficult.
But I agree that there should be different categories and a winner in each.
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Old 2011-01-15, 18:50   Link #58
felix
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What if I write mahou shojo style parody and have it be 33% narrative/dialog, 33% haiku (chanting), 33% poetry (battles).

Which category would that be in?
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Old 2011-01-15, 19:04   Link #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
What if I write mahou shojo style parody and have it be 33% narrative/dialog, 33% haiku (chanting), 33% poetry (battles).

Which category would that be in?
probably have to make it one category mainly but include the other two?
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Old 2011-01-16, 06:09   Link #60
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Is using small pieces of Latin and similar European languages allowed?

P.S If TRL is participating I am out. There is no way I am going up against a newspaper editor with a known AND certified lingua franca capability over 9000 - it is suicide.
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