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Old 2011-07-20, 00:38   Link #301
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
We never knew Kyon's real name but nobody would think he was neutered. So why not just keep him as Producer? Why does he NEED a name?
Real or not, I'm certain Kyon is forever his name, and that's different. 'Producer' is not even a damn nickname, it's a title and it's kinda degrading.

Plus you said it yourself- by not giving him a name or more personality, it's to put at easy the minds of people that fear this would become a harem series. So how else would you call it except neutering?
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Old 2011-07-20, 00:39   Link #302
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Real or not, I'm certain Kyon is forever his name, and that's different. 'Producer' is not even a damn nickname, it's a title and it's kinda degrading.

But this is not my point again.
Kyon is actually a nickname that evreyone including his family calls him. And no one ever said his name isn't going to be revealed at a later date .

So yes, I agree that producer-san seriously needs an identity.
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Old 2011-07-20, 02:08   Link #303
Unknown Soldier
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His identity is Producer-san.

Anyways, the PS3 version of THE IDOLM@STER 2 was announced. If you actually want to play the game you won't need to buy a JP Xbox 360 just for that since PS3 games are region free! The PS3 version also includes the first 3 DLC packs and some other content. Will be released October 27th.

I'm not ashamed to say I'm going to import this.
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Old 2011-07-20, 02:12   Link #304
houkoholic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Real or not, I'm certain Kyon is forever his name, and that's different. 'Producer' is not even a damn nickname, it's a title and it's kinda degrading.
Kyon is not his real name, also Kyon doesn't actually like his nickname either but it stuck. You are correct that Producer is different, but how is being called Producer-san degrading if that's preciously what he does? It's no different than calling someone "sensei" for example.

Quote:
Plus you said it yourself- by not giving him a name or more personality, it's to put at easy the minds of people that fear this would become a harem series. So how else would you call it except neutering?
Like I said they made him a needed presences but not give him focus, that's not neutering. Neutering would be if he was originally needed as a focus to drive the story but they forcefully removed him from the spotlight, it's very different. As you can see in episode 2 the idols themselves are quite capable characters that just needed a little guidance (just like in the games), they don't need a harem lead to fly in and save them like Superman saving a heroine in distress, so making him a little bland and true to his supportive role isn't neutering his role at all.
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Old 2011-07-20, 02:33   Link #305
Westlo
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He can be in the supporting role still and not be as bland, he had more personality as a camera man being subtitled ffs.... And some idols stories involve the producer in more than just a background role...
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Old 2011-07-20, 03:28   Link #306
houkoholic
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
He can be in the supporting role still and not be as bland, he had more personality as a camera man being subtitled ffs....
I keep seeing people repeat this but I don't see it. It wasn't like he said anything witty or particularly memorable during his cameraman role. Show me exactly where he has more personality - repeating it again and again doesn't make it true you know.

If you meant that he had more *presences* as a cameraman, than yes, that is quite arguable since the subtitles does draw attention to his presences.

Quote:
And some idols stories involve the producer in more than just a background role...
I disagree - at least not in the same sense as a harem lead where he has to butt his nose into everything and practically solve the problem for the girls, he only ever gives advices and do the producer-chores in the games.

Let me be more clear - making the Producer bland and having less presences is not neutering his role as that's exactly how his role is, but giving him more personality and a story-focus role is * elevating* his importance which weren't in the game, and that usually comes with the price of turning the story into a fairly sub-par harem piece as shown by the various mangas of im@s, which is what the fans don't want to see.
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Old 2011-07-20, 03:30   Link #307
Unknown Soldier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
He can be in the supporting role still and not be as bland, he had more personality as a camera man being subtitled ffs.... And some idols stories involve the producer in more than just a background role...
After just 2 episodes out of 25, it's really hard to say that he'll be like this forever.

Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2011-07-20 at 17:08. Reason: Let's keep games spoilers out the anime thread, please.
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Old 2011-07-20, 04:04   Link #308
jcdietz03
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It's Everyone Calls Him Barkeep. I don't mind it. I especially liked the first episode, as it's just like playing the game. I think the anime producer realized the anime couldn't work like that for the duration.

Producer-san was right on when he says "you need to retake those promo pics." Other than that, he didn't do much for the entire episode. For team Ami, he sort of says "think about it yourself" (what's the best style for you). For Chihara, he gives her some advice ("don't force your smile"). There's an off-camera "take off your makeup!" directed at team Ami - this seems like a tough situation to handle skillfully in real life though; I'm disappointed they didn't show it. Even with all of this, it seems like cameraman-san knows more about taking good pictures than producer-san.

Does anyone know what real-life idol producers are like? Do they make all the decisions for the idols, or does the idol have some say? I bet producers commission most idol music. Because composing music / lyrics is a whole separate skill from performing it. If you look at idol song credits, they're usually only credited with singing (lyrics, composition and arrangement by others).

Also, love the Chihara joke where we don't get to see her attempt at a smile. Instead, we're left imaging the worst forced smile we have even seen, which is probably better than what the animators could draw.
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Old 2011-07-20, 04:09   Link #309
PopeAlessandros
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I don't recognise the name of this anime....
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Old 2011-07-20, 05:19   Link #310
Pachael
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Surely Ritsuko-san and Producer-san will fire up the girls in whatever showdown they have with rival (wink) groups/idols.
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Old 2011-07-20, 07:37   Link #311
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Real or not, I'm certain Kyon is forever his name, and that's different. 'Producer' is not even a damn nickname, it's a title and it's kinda degrading.
Not really. Japan is really big on honorific titles. So calling someone "Producer-san" isn't necessarily degrading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachael View Post
Surely Ritsuko-san and Producer-san will fire up the girls in whatever showdown they have with rival (wink) groups/idols.
How pumped up will they make everyone? THIS PUMPED UP!

"BAD PRODUCERS WITH ATTITUDE!"

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Old 2011-07-20, 12:18   Link #312
Arabesque
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Episode 2 wasn't as good as episode 1, I thought that the producer was pretty bland, and that the plot line for the episode was sort of weaker than the previous one, but it was still pretty nice. While the ideas in it weren't as unconventional as they were last week, there was still some pretty creative use of dramatic lighting at the start and through the episode they opted more of using shades, eyes and glasses as opposed to reaction faces/eyes to display the emotions of the characters. Still, I'm expecting more from the Gainax staff here, so I want to see them go all out and give me something in the lines of episode 1, where the show completely embrace the zany and breaks free from any restrains of conventional animation!

The episode itself focused more on Iori (aka the token Rie Kugimiya character that make people like Reckoner see red and lose their ability to act calmly or logically ) and the rest of the flat chest club, which include the Futami twins and Yayoi. Of all of them, I liked Yayoi walking in the most (thanks for her cheerful personality) and walking out ... I still like Yayoi the most of this bunch.

Not to say I had a negative reaction to this episode. I actually thought it was sort of interesting that each idol would try and use her own personal charm in front of the camera (Miki is apparently loved by it, for some reason also by the general population of this forum ... why I don't know, I see people having avi of her here and there, badges of Team Miki on their sigs, and even mikoo has apparently joined this legion ... meh) so I liked how they opted for a bit of show rather than telling the answer of that question immediately when presented.

Other than that, I thought that the ending had done a better job at presenting Iori at a more positive light than the episode had done, but showing that she is attempting to do something worthwhile on her own and prove herself to her family.

Still, I'm firmly on Team Takane as of yet. Give me her episode already
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
I think you're forgetting the producer asking Azusa to demonstrate the *Gravure* pose that Ritsuko taught her.



Of course she's about his age.
Ugh, mustn't jump ship.

Takane Takane Takane Takane

BTW you seem to like this gif a lot Rambo I guess the other idols need to have their own gravure shot some time down the line as well otherwise we will all join the Azusa ship down the line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acejem View Post
Was expecting this to be some kind of guilty pleasure for me, but it didn't even fulfill that for me personally unfortunately. Although I wasn't expecting A-1 to do anything near Anohana level last season, I am still left somewhat underwhelmed because I've been having faith in the studio recently. Oh well, there's always next season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I'll make a list of reasons.

Would I show this to other people? No.
Would I recommend this to other people? No.
Does this stimulate me in any way intellectually? No.
Do I watch this for interesting plot? No.
Do I watch this for characters with depth? No.
Is it a comedy? No.
Am I proud to watch this? No.

Yep, it's a guilty pleasure. I watch this for no reason other than to enjoy a little light heartedness and perhaps some moe characters. That doesn't define entertainment for me, and I would be damned if it did.
I know that it's sort of futile arguing over what is a guilty pleasure to someone since it's usually a personal qualification (I can understand that some won't want to be caught watching a show about this subject matter, though I personally don't think it's nearly as embarrassing or shameful as other anime at all, and to add it's hardly sexually driven at all, and the most risqué thing in these past two episodes was Azusa's Gravure pose in episode one, but again I can understand that some will feel that the premise itself is sort of creepy for one reason or other) but I would like to point out that just because a show might not have the most thought out story or engaging characters (as of yet, I don't know if it does develop into something more later on) that doesn't mean it fails as an animation.

The first episode for example was shot in a mockumentary fashion almost entirely. Not only did I think that was a creative and uncommon way to make your introductory episode, but it also helped highlight each member of the cast and give each one of them time to present themselves and give us a basic idea of who they are and what are their aspirations are. The first episode managed to give every one a chance at the spotlight and didn't waste time with presenting each uniquely design and coloured idol.

So was it well written? Other than giving each girl ample time, not really. But was it interesting and well crafted visually? Hell yeah.

The second episode, while not on the same level of creativeness, wasn't trash at I thought. The characters focused on this episode might not have been that engaging or lovable, but even when the episode centered around them that didn't mean others didn't get a chance to shine as well. Ritsuko was just as prominent in this episode as she was in the first, even if she's not an active idol herself for one. The photo shoot also helped. Azusa & Miki were present as the ''prefect'' idols by having the former be the older, mature type who the younger idols always look up to while the latter is a camera magnet. Makoto & Hibiki established some differences between their similar tomboyish characteristics. We got more hints dropped at us from Chihaya. Yukiho show casing that a none flashy side etc. so the episode remained as balanced as the first in showing the characters, but instead decided to help build up their personalities further from the basic idea we got at 1.

Going by all of that, I don't think the anime can be called trash like that. I'm seeing at least in these past two episodes, a lot of care and budget going in here to create something worthwhile. It might not be something intellectual based or plot driven, but just because the focus isn't on those things doesn't mean that the anime is dumb or that there isn't more to it from other areas.

Now I'm not going to defend every criticism made, since I do agree with things like the producer needing a personality and that the cast is too big (even if the time on each one of the idols is well managed thus far) but like I said before, I personally don't like stories centered around idols, and this show which has at it's center core is a story about how great (different) idols are managed to draw me in, then I think it must've done something right.

Idolm@ster might not be a ''deep'' show, but that doesn't mean it's worth less than other anime this season.

(On another note, acejem's comment (though it might not be what he meant) about his faith in A-1 being misplaced sort of reminded me of the criticism some had against SHAFT's Denpa because some thought it was a ''step down'' from Madoka. I'm not sure why is that even an issue since even if the subject matter might be about a more otaku centric story that it might be less impressive than AnoHana, since visually this show is just as good looking and visually interesting if not more than AnoHana. Sure the story doesn't have the same potential, but that doesn't mean it's less worthwhile in all other aspects)
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Old 2011-07-20, 15:01   Link #313
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
BTW you seem to like this gif a lot Rambo I guess the other idols need to have their own gravure shot some time down the line as well otherwise we will all join the Azusa ship down the line.
I must confess total, honest and completely whole hearted ignorance of whatever it is that you might possibly be >>implying

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Old 2011-07-20, 15:03   Link #314
blakstealth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier View Post
His identity is Producer-san.

Anyways, the PS3 version of THE IDOLM@STER 2 was announced. If you actually want to play the game you won't need to buy a JP Xbox 360 just for that since PS3 games are region free! The PS3 version also includes the first 3 DLC packs and some other content. Will be released October 27th.

I'm not ashamed to say I'm going to import this.
It also comes with Vol. 1 of the anime, the OP song, gameplay tweaks, etc.
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Old 2011-07-20, 16:06   Link #315
ars89
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Lol at Iori's plans. Miki might be my favorite so far. I liked how the assistant fainted after seeing Makoto poise. Nice it all worked out in the end. What was the whole point of Haruka's scene with that grumpy guy, felt out of place.
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Old 2011-07-20, 16:13   Link #316
Unknown Soldier
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Originally Posted by blakstealth View Post
It also comes with Vol. 1 of the anime, the OP song, gameplay tweaks, etc.
If you pony up for the SE, you get Vol.1 of the anime on Blu-ray, a box to keep all the other volumes of the anime they are expecting you to buy in, the OST (yet another one ), the Gravure4You mini-game Vol.1 (beach version apparently), and a whole lotta guilt for paying for the SE.

Just the game itself comes with the anime OP song Ready!!, DLC packs 1-3 (that's about $200 worth of DLC content the 360 owners paid for, somebody in Japan gonna be mad ), and multiple difficulty settings (Normal and Hyper confirmed so far).
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Old 2011-07-20, 16:22   Link #317
blakstealth
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Aw lawd aw lawd. The $200 worth of DLC is still just wow.
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Old 2011-07-20, 16:34   Link #318
Roger Rambo
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Didn't they just announce at all the DLC for owners of Idolmaster 2 on the play station 3 will be...free?
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Old 2011-07-20, 20:39   Link #319
Triple_R
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Somewhat surprisingly, I kind of liked that second episode.

It was a pleasant, relaxing watch.

What I particularly liked was the dialogue between the girls (and Producer-san). In fact, the dialogue in general in this anime feels so very natural, and not at all forced. It doesn't leave me with a huge positive impression of either of the characters, or any lone element that's very memorable, but you kind of get an effect where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts due to how everything comes together so smoothly.

The dialogue is helped by visuals that are literally easy on the eyes. By that, I don't mean "sex appeal", but rather soft visuals with lots of curved lines (not many rough or sharp edges), and light animation touches, and nothing that feels overly loud or obtrusive. Kind of an anti-SHAFT sort of artstyle/animation, you could say.

The girls in this show have a verbal chemistry between them similar to what the girls in K-On have. I can see how some might find that boring, but for me, it has a slightly soothing "comfort anime" effect similar to just letting a soft Summer breeze wash over you.

Rather than "guilty pleasure", this is the term that I think I'd apply to an anime like this one: "comfort anime" (think of the anime equivalent of comfort food). It's not aiming to intellectually engage you, or leave you on the edge of your seat like a great drama would, but it's rather just trying to help you relax and unwind.


I still think that the cast for this is a bit too large for its own good, and I'm having a hard time telling some of these girls apart from the rest. That's no big deal as long as this anime stays squarely in "comfort anime" territory, but should it later aim for a touch more drama, I might find myself having a hard time caring about it as neither of the girls is really getting emotional investment from me yet (largely since, ironically given what this episode was about, none of them is standing out from the crowd for me yet).


However, I'm actually fine with Producer-san remaining nameless and having a largely unassuming personality. He's likable enough, and yeah, the last thing I'd want to see this anime become is harem-esque.

Like K-On, I think, this is a show where you either "get" and like its relaxing "comfort anime" nature, or it feels like total pointless fluff to you. I can see why Reckoner doesn't like it. On the other hand, I would caution people against equating fluff with trash (at least at anything other than a subjective level).

If the anime industry was loaded with fluff anime shows, I'd be pretty pissed, but a few fluff shows just adds balance to the industry, imo.
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Old 2011-07-20, 20:56   Link #320
houkoholic
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Didn't they just announce at all the DLC for owners of Idolmaster 2 on the play station 3 will be...free?
No, only the DLCs of catalogue 1-3 are included free in the ps3 version. FWIW the 360 version is currently up to catalogue 5.
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