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Old 2011-02-06, 07:33   Link #61
Kanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
With the full Magia out as live performance, it becomes pretty evident that the ED is sung from Homura's point of view.

Should hopefully put the final nail in the coffin for the "Homura is evil" theory.
Sadly, I doubt it. I'm still waiting for Himeji to comment on episode 5. I wonder if seeing Homura protect Sayaka and stand up to someone (Kyouko) fitting exactly the distorted impression she had of Homura (selfish, greedy, etc...) changed her mind.
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Old 2011-02-06, 07:38   Link #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
With the full Magia out as live performance, it becomes pretty evident that the ED is sung from Homura's point of view.

Should hopefully put the final nail in the coffin for the "Homura is evil" theory.
Unless there's some kind of word of god that the lyrics are from Homura's perspective people can still tell you you're imagining things.

edit:Himeji's view is probably something like "Homura only did that to stop Madoka from become a mahou shoujo,Sayaka doesn't seem strong,she can eliminate her later"
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Old 2011-02-06, 08:21   Link #63
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man, why are people thinking homura's evil. DX it saddens me.. DX

without the Word-of-god, i am pretty convinced that the ED is in homura's perspective. >=}

HOMURA FTW!! xD
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Old 2011-02-10, 23:13   Link #64
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My body just can't take how much of a pimp she is even when saving your life.





Hoes just don't know about Homerun.
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Old 2011-02-11, 02:24   Link #65
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Originally Posted by night_sentinel View Post
Option # 3 Kyubey despite for design purpose harmless-looking is powerful or hard to kill.
Not to derail a Homura thread, but we already know Kyuube is not only hard to kill, but likely impossible to kill. A lot of people seem to wrongly think Homura was on her way to killing Kyuube without actually thinking things through. If Homura was actually capable of killing Kyuube, don't you think she'd have continued to tried once Kyuube had contacted Madoka?

Right. It's pretty obvious she was harassing Kyuube, possibly in hopes of keeping him too busy to contact Madoka, making it all the more ironic that it was that very harassment that led to the contact anyways. And while it's anime, and one has to take injuries in anime with a huge grain of salt, Kyuube recovered awfully fast from those "injuries". ;p I wouldn't put it past that little bugger in thinking so fast on his feet that he actually allowed himself to get a little hurt, specifically for pulling Madoka's heart strings. In effect, out-thinking Homura.

Poor Homura. Doing all that she does to protect Madoka, to slowly see it all slipping through her fingers. I'm sure her eventual failure at protecting Madoka will be deliciously tragic (this is Gen, after all).
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Old 2011-02-11, 04:33   Link #66
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Originally Posted by hoarfrost View Post
My body just can't take how much of a pimp she is even when saving your life.





Hoes just don't know about Homerun.
Nice pic ^^

Isn't Homura just fabulous ? Sigh, even when she is not trying to be and being a jerk-ass with a <supposedly> heart of gold and ambiguous as hell,...


@ Creb
Hmm... that would certainly fit. This would explain why she stopped attacking Kyubey the moment Madoka barged in the scene.

edit: Still digesting episode 6... Hmmm do anyone know what Kyubey realized in the first scene about Homura?
Kyubey: Akemi Homura, don't tell me you're .....

What?!! Why can't shady characters finish their thought!!!

Last edited by night_sentinel; 2011-02-11 at 04:45.
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Old 2011-02-11, 05:28   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarfrost View Post
My body just can't take how much of a pimp she is even when saving your life.





Hoes just don't know about Homerun.
HNNNNNNGGG..

oh homura...



Quote:
Originally Posted by night_sentinel View Post
What?!! Why can't shady characters finish their thought!!!

yeah, why!!?? what is mah homerun really??! T__T
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Old 2011-02-11, 09:35   Link #68
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There's a theory in Megatokyo Forums that Homura might be much , much older than she looks . She might be in the business for a decade - or even several . In fact , given the revelations of Soul Gems , she might have switched multiple bodies over the years , and that the body she is currently in , is most definitely not her original.

Personally , I have this crazy theory that Homura is a little like Hohenhiem and the Philosopher's stone in Full Metal Alchemist . Based on the two soul gems in her hands in episode 6 ( assuming they are not an animation error) , and the huge arsenal of different techniques and weapons, it might be very possible that Homura is an entity where multiple soul gems share the same body . Perhaps her original ability was to hack into Soul Gems as a power source for herself . However, the burdens of cohabiting with multiple souls eventually forced her to reconcile with each Soul Gem she possessed , until the Souls eventually formed a collective Consciousness .

I know , that's very , very wild speculation here . But , I don't think its' that unlikely. Surely there have been Puella Magis who have been aware that Soul Gems are real souls ( it makes me think of Soylent Green , btw) , and who have eliminated rivals simply by taking Soul Gems away from their opponents - then destroying the corpse from long range. Who is to say that Homura did not go through a phrase like Kyouko sometime back?

Furthermore , it might explain the " She did , and she did not " remark made by Kyubey . Perhaps some of the Soul Gems were that of Magical Girls contracted to Kyubey , and some from different "contractors" or sources , so to speak.

Then again , this might just be Wild Mass Guessing . But given how dark this anime is heading , I wouldn't be surprise if there have been Puella Magis who have as far as stealing and enslaving the Soul Gems of their rivals.

In fact , if the Homura is EVIL possibility proves to be true , she might be preparing to turn Madoka into the latest of her collection of Soul Gems . How's that for a downer ending!

The Second theory I am considering is that Homura is indeed a Time Traveller - or rather , Future Homura , perhaps Future Madoka returned in time , and possessed the body of another powerful Puella Magi of that time , annexing the Soul Gem of that Puella Magi into her own . That explains her two Soul Gems ( if its' not an animation error) - one is Future!Alternate! Madoka , the other , the Original! Homura.
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Old 2011-02-11, 10:58   Link #69
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Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
In fact , if the Homura is EVIL possibility proves to be true , she might be preparing to turn Madoka into the latest of her collection of Soul Gems . How's that for a downer ending!
I don't think she can become more powerful that she already is. So if she was after Super-Potential-Madoka soul-gem, she would have let her make a contract. The less Madoka knows about the MG world might gives her advantage in a fight.
Plus, it goes against all of what Homura has been doing. Prevent Madoka from being a MG, not searching for Mami's gem while still in the witch's lair, returning Sayaka's gem while she could have keep it and pretend she couldn't reach the truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
The Second theory I am considering is that Homura is indeed a Time Traveller - or rather , Future Homura , perhaps Future Madoka returned in time , and possessed the body of another powerful Puella Magi of that time , annexing the Soul Gem of that Puella Magi into her own . That explains her two Soul Gems ( if its' not an animation error) - one is Future!Alternate! Madoka , the other , the Original! Homura.
It is an animation error. Someone pointed out that she never bears a right-hand gem, only in this scene (and sometimes, event the left one disappears ).
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Old 2011-02-11, 12:07   Link #70
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I doubt Homura can travel in time. It's a little too different from the other MGs power theme.
I think it's more possible that she made a wish to turn time back. Yeah, it sounds weird since the girls can only make wishes before turning into MGs. Well, she either abused a loophole or maybe she was like Madoka in the series. A normal girl amongst all the MGs. Maybe Madoka was the leader of the group at that time. Maybe not. But she definitely was friends with Madoka in the past. It's probably the same for the rest. I guess somethink really bad happened and Homura was the only survivor from the group. She made her wish and returned to the past. Her wish probably meant that everyone would forget her and erase the Homura from the past. So she has no past in this new world.It also explains why Kyubi don't seem to know her.
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Old 2011-02-11, 12:45   Link #71
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I generally don't like thinking of characters as stupid, because a plot that can only move based on characters being stupid is bad writing. So I have to wonder, what Homura's goal really is?

When I think about it, Kyube only called out to Madoka because Homura attacked him. Maybe that was the point; maybe Homura *is* trying to turn Madoka into an MG, and this is the best way to do it. Thus, telling her about the whole soul gem thing would really scare her off.
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Old 2011-02-11, 12:59   Link #72
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
When I think about it, Kyube only called out to Madoka because Homura attacked him.
Kyuubey called out to madoka in her dreams the night before, and then knew her by names later on.

He knew her before then, and planned to make her into a MG from the start.
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Old 2011-02-11, 13:12   Link #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I generally don't like thinking of characters as stupid, because a plot that can only move based on characters being stupid is bad writing.
Well, in fairness, not everyone is smart and competent, even in real life. Stupid mistakes happen everyday.

So I don't think it's necessarily a case of bad writing if a character making a stupid mistake is what ultimately pushes the plot forward.

On another board I used to frequent, I came across an important distinction:

1. PIS = Plot Induced Stupidity.

2. CIS = Character Induced Stupidity.


The difference between the two is that with PIS, a character is acting unusually stupid. With CIS, a character simply is stupid.

So the issue is if an act of stupidity is due to a character simply being consistently written as stupid, or is it due to the plot forcing him or her to be unusually stupid?

For example, if Batman did something truly stupid, it would be an awful case of PIS. But if Bizarro Superman did something truly stupid, well, it's kind of in-character for him.
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Old 2011-02-11, 13:51   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
Kyuubey called out to madoka in her dreams the night before, and then knew her by names later on.

He knew her before then, and planned to make her into a MG from the start.
And how do we know Homura wasn't hunting down Kyube during those times, too? So his dream was another call for help. I'm eagerly waiting for the counter to this, because it will mean someone taking my position, heh.

We could also say that the dream was Madoka's alone, and that Kyube had nothing to do with it. She already has great magical potential, so perhaps some of that seeped out and made her have a sort of pre-cog dream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
So the issue is if an act of stupidity is due to a character simply being consistently written as stupid, or is it due to the plot forcing him or her to be unusually stupid?
What you say has some truth, so perhaps I should clarify.

When something is blatantly obvious, and the characters don't ask about it or notice it, then I call it stupidity. You yourself were questioning Homura for this very thing, which is all I was trying to say. The obvious issue of Mami's possible revival is another one. It has to come up with enough thought, and so the audience expects to see it addressed; there's a big hole there otherwise.
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Old 2011-02-11, 13:57   Link #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I generally don't like thinking of characters as stupid, because a plot that can only move based on characters being stupid is bad writing. So I have to wonder, what Homura's goal really is?

When I think about it, Kyube only called out to Madoka because Homura attacked him. Maybe that was the point; maybe Homura *is* trying to turn Madoka into an MG, and this is the best way to do it. Thus, telling her about the whole soul gem thing would really scare her off.
I'm probably even more stupid for not following but how is Homura stupid?

And do you really see Homura pulling off the psychologic game here as she tells Madoka not to get involved but in reality wants her to become an MG?
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Old 2011-02-11, 14:00   Link #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanish View Post
I'm probably even more stupid for not following but how is Homura stupid?
Her stated goal is to prevent Madoka from becoming an MG. She has access to information that would horrify Madoka and Sayaka from becoming MG's, and yet doesn't tell them.

Quote:
And do you really see Homura pulling off the psychologic game here as she tells Madoka not to get involved but in reality wants her to become an MG?
I dunno. It's just speculation. As opposed to some in this forum, I'm not married to the idea. Just that I'm trying to think up other possible ways that would explain why Homura didn't tell them, other than plain stupidity.
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Old 2011-02-11, 14:30   Link #77
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Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
In fact , given the revelations of Soul Gems , she might have switched multiple bodies over the years , and that the body she is currently in , is most definitely not her original.
This is a good and possible point i would think. It also brings into mind the finale. Will Madoka die before the end and Homura takes over her body for a final strike? Good points would be it would be very shocking, probably greater than ep 3

Or Madoka and Homura's souls cooperate thus Madoka becomes a MS but is not a MS
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Old 2011-02-11, 14:34   Link #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
What you say has some truth, so perhaps I should clarify.

When something is blatantly obvious, and the characters don't ask about it or notice it, then I call it stupidity. You yourself were questioning Homura for this very thing, which is all I was trying to say. The obvious issue of Mami's possible revival is another one. It has to come up with enough thought, and so the audience expects to see it addressed; there's a big hole there otherwise.
I know, and I agree with you.

My comment was more of a general nature.

I'm mostly thinking of, say, one of the magical girls making a reckless decision that looks stupid in retrospect.

This anime has shown, in my opinion, that all of these girls can be a bit reckless. Even Homura doesn't act with perfect prudence, imo.

But I will agree that in calmer moments, some of the decisions these girls makes perhaps could be written as less dumb or absent-minded, probably.
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Old 2011-02-11, 14:38   Link #79
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@Kaijo-san
Well, as you recently mentioned about Kyubei, Homura also doesn't have to tell everything she knows, no?

Madoka is meddlesome and keeps invoving herself because obviously she's a very good person and she's worried about her friends after all. So it could be that Homura isn't telling her some things specifically because Madoka would have an easier time digesting the information so she could prepare her heart beforehand eventually deciding to take Kyubei's constant suggestions to become an MG. Which Homura does not want of course.

And as she might have noticed, actual experience that comes sudden and situationally can make Madoka fall back (temporarily) as seen from Mami's death.

About Kyoko vs Sayaka ep 5, that was Kyubei's suggestion which was clearly stopped by Homura's interruption. Additionally, Homuhomu's got a restrained personality so she only mentions the things she thinks are enough to do the job. Like tell Mami that the witch is different from others and stronger but nothing specific. Or that Madoka is a fool but nothing more.

About the fact that Madoka threw away Sayaka's soul... well, that's more to do with her mom's advice and not as much related to Homura's intentions. She could have told Madoka in this case that there is a 100 meter limit... but who'd know Madoka would do that? I watched the episode 3 times and I kept going WTF everytime she threw the soul gem away because I find it more natural to not let go of it. But since the situation was very pressing Madoka had no time to think of the best solution so I can understand that she did a mistake there. Which was good because we now have new info on how some stuff works.

Just like Kyubei, I think Homura only opens her mouth to tell important info when neccessary. Neccessary as in for their respective goals. Homura did talk to Kyouko and told her about how she wants to handle things. Yet she didn't respond to the things that were basically unimportant to her.

Eventually Homura seems to be the calm and conventional type so as long as she reaches her goals she won't have to change the way she is. And like I said, if she tells Madoka too much info it might backfire and she will actively start to digest the info because she knows Madoka really wants to be useful. The fact that she is still an unknowing newbie keeps her uncertain about her decision.
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Old 2011-02-11, 15:12   Link #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajioj3482696
The obvious issue of Mami's possible revival is another one. It has to come up with enough thought, and so the audience expects to see it addressed; there's a big hole there otherwise.
It's already been addressed somewhere on this forum. All the girls actually had a reason to avoid the issue. Sayaka had another wish with higher priority. Homura would not say anything that would push Madoka towards a contract. And Madoka might be afraid the answer is "yes" and be tempted to wish for that instead of something dearer to herself.
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