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Old 2011-02-25, 07:29   Link #161
FlavorOfLife
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
Any speculations on what implications the level on Homura's shield might represent?
It could be one of the following
i) remaining magic power
ii) time before her wish ends
iii) time until W night (unlikely)
iv) time allowed before she is pulled back into the future (possibly linked to ii)
v) time before she becomes a witch
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Old 2011-02-25, 08:51   Link #162
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post


New Megami cover. However, you can see something very interesting about it. Beside Homura, you have Kuroneko.
A Kureneko is fine too...

Homura looks stunning on this cover. And (gasp!) she's smiling!
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Old 2011-02-25, 09:14   Link #163
BaKaBaKaOtaKu
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^ that photo...

*faints*

(THE BLACK CAT! O_o it might be homura or her contractor or whatsoever)
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Old 2011-02-25, 12:45   Link #164
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I'm in the "Homura is QB" camp for the lulz. I have thought of that scenario for a while and I personally liked it since it also put QB in a deep shit and everyone in Gen's work deserves to be in deep shit lol XD.
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Old 2011-02-25, 12:53   Link #165
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I don't like the cat theory (and don't generally support it) but since it became slightly more likely I will speculate that Homura will be able to achieve her intentions (!= goals) in a bittersweet way. One price will be though that she would turn back into being a cat. Maybe she was one originally, or she will actually become a cat for the first time after circumstances. Dunno.
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Old 2011-02-25, 15:11   Link #166
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I can guess why Homura is not telling Madoka about Incubator's plan. I assume the following:

-Homura is from the future
-Incubator's plan is really bad, perhaps apocalyptic
-Homura actually has reasons for not telling Madoka

The most infamous consequence of time-travelers from the future? How acting in the past would inherently change the future.

So I think backward. Homura does not want Madoka to make a wish with Kyubey. Everything she has done so far is for that purpose. So, I conclude that Homura is not telling Madoka about Kyubey's plan because it would lead Madoka to contract with Kyubey.

If the plan is world destruction or something terrible, then Homura must fear Madoka's possible reaction. If Homura tells Madoka that Kyubey is planning to end the world, Madoka will make a wish with Kyubey to stop that from happening. But in doing so, Kyubey achieves his goal of contracting Madoka. Therefore, Homura is trying to give Madoka as little information as possible.

My theory is flawed, because Kyubey can simply tell Madoka about his evil plans. However, if Kyubey must play by some "rules" I assume one is he can do nothing to persuade Madoka into making the contract. And this is circumvented if Madoka explicitly asks Kyubey what his plans are, Kyubey is allowed to explain.
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Old 2011-02-25, 17:06   Link #167
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Well if it's End of World via Madoka, Homura got nothing to fear. She simply has to tell the truth to Madoka. "Don't contract or the World will end". What's the point to contract with her if it's to just end everything ?

Homura knows something, that's for sure. Why not telling is the question. Someone pointed that it may be because she can't, like she's not able to.
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Old 2011-02-25, 17:39   Link #168
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What if in Homura's original timeline, Madoka sacrificed her life to save her city form the Walpurgis Night? Or, perhaps, she sacrificed her life for something even more higher stakes than that?

Telling Madoka that might not help matters, from Homura's perspective. Madoka seems to be reaching a point where she's willing to make major sacrifices for the sake of her friends and loved ones, as Homura herself heavily hinted at in Episode 8.


Episode 9 is going to be very, very interesting.

These are the key things I'm looking out for:

1. How will Madoka and Kyoko react to Sayaka becoming a witch? Will they point the finger at Kyubey and accuse him of great evil due to what's happened to Sayaka via her contracting with him, or will they not do that, and just try to somehow rectify Sayaka's plight?

2. Will Kyubey try to contract with Madoka anew? He pretty much had her in this episode, until Homura shot him full of holes at the very last second. So unless Madoka sours on Kyubey considerably given Sayaka's current situation, there's no particular reason for Kyubey to not try to seal the deal with Madoka again.

3. If Kyubey goes for that, will Homura finally spill the beans? Her shooting up Kyubey over and over again (just before he contracts with a willing Madoka) would start to look pretty silly pretty fast, so I don't expect the anime to give Homura that "out" again. Homura might very well be up against the ropes here, depending on how Madoka reacts to the "Sayaka is now a witch" revelation. Homura may be down to her last card - Telling Madoka everything, and working from there.
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Old 2011-02-25, 17:40   Link #169
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Originally Posted by Sageblink View Post
Well if it's End of World via Madoka, Homura got nothing to fear. She simply has to tell the truth to Madoka. "Don't contract or the World will end". What's the point to contract with her if it's to just end everything ?
It is not end of the world via Madoka; it is Kyubey causing the end of the world through whatever plans he has with Puella Magi. Or something really bad. Madoka, informed about impending doom and inclined to save humanity, contracts with Kyubey to stop him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageblink View Post
Homura knows something, that's for sure. Why not telling is the question. Someone pointed that it may be because she can't, like she's not able to.
A possibility. Homura has not said anything, which might lead us to believe she cannot speak. However, many people have contemplated that path. I am assuming that Homura can speak.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
What if in Homura's original timeline, Madoka sacrificed her life to save her city form the Walpurgis Night? Or, perhaps, she sacrificed her life for something even more higher stakes than that?
My addition is that Kyubey is responsible for whatever Madoka sacrificed herself to stop... which means that Homura telling Madoka would only lead to history repeating itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Telling Madoka that might not help matters, from Homura's perspective. Madoka seems to be reaching a point where she's willing to make major sacrifices for the sake of her friends and loved ones, as Homura herself heavily hinted at in Episode 8.
Yes, you see my logic now. Homura is treading cautiously with Madoka, who has nearly made the contract three times now. This time, Madoka was on the last word.
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Old 2011-02-25, 18:27   Link #170
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Originally Posted by Deconstructor View Post
It is not end of the world via Madoka; it is Kyubey causing the end of the world through whatever plans he has with Puella Magi. Or something really bad. Madoka, informed about impending doom and inclined to save humanity, contracts with Kyubey to stop him.
That makes no sense. Incubator is clever enough to know if a full powered Madoka is a treat to whatever plan he has, and lo and behold, he still wants to contract her. Furthermore, when Homura reveled she knows Incubator has a True Form and a secret plan, Incubator revealed that contracting Madoka goes anlong with his plan...

So no, if Madoka makes a contract with Incubator she won't be able to stop him, because Madoka contracting is part of Incubator's plan to begin with!!
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Old 2011-02-25, 18:59   Link #171
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
That makes no sense. Incubator is clever enough to know if a full powered Madoka is a treat to whatever plan he has, and lo and behold, he still wants to contract her. Furthermore, when Homura reveled she knows Incubator has a True Form and a secret plan, Incubator revealed that contracting Madoka goes anlong with his plan...

So no, if Madoka makes a contract with Incubator she won't be able to stop him, because Madoka contracting is part of Incubator's plan to begin with!!
True, which is why...

1) If Kyubey truly has an evil, diabolical plan that requires contracting with Madoka, and...

2) If Madoka still doesn't see Kyubey as evil, even with Sayaka turning into a witch...

Then Homura is nearing the point where she really should spill the beans to Madoka. Her current approach clearly isn't going to work any longer (as shown by Madoka one word away from consentually contracting with Kyubey), unless Madoka sours on Kyubey.


My suggested idea, though, is actually that maybe Homura is keeping things secret because Kyubey's ultimate plan isn't entirely diabolical and evil. Mabe he intends to have Madoka sacrifice herself to destroy the MG/Witch system, and/or to stop Walpurgis Night. Now, I admit that seems unlikely given the events of Episode 8, but it would explain Homura's reluctance to spill the beans...
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Old 2011-02-25, 19:12   Link #172
Deconstructor
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
So no, if Madoka makes a contract with Incubator she won't be able to stop him, because Madoka contracting is part of Incubator's plan to begin with!!
Madoka is allowed to wish for anything. She thinks that she can stop Kyubey's plan by wishing for it to never happen, or maybe just getting rid of Kyubey entirely. Madoka, I would say, has proven herself naive enough to believe that.
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Old 2011-02-25, 19:26   Link #173
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Hmm... I think I've covered all the main characters...
But... Errgg.... Homura could also be Madoka's mom, her wiped out of existence childhood friend or older sister.... and even a cat ... who knows....

Anyway, what do you think is more probable? Place your bets before the final ep.
You know that might actually work as a long shot... if this were Evangelion, also Homura has a somewhat similar approach to life as Rei.
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Old 2011-02-25, 19:26   Link #174
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Madoka is allowed to wish for anything. She thinks that she can stop Kyubey's plan by wishing for it to never happen, or maybe just getting rid of Kyubey entirely. Madoka, I would say, has proven herself naive enough to believe that.
Look at it this way. Madoka's main flaw is her inferiority complex. She says so herself to Incubator: she thinks she's worth nothing.

So, considering that, what do you think character development entails for her, becoming a goddes so she can solve all her problems magically, OR learn to accept herself as she is, and realize she isn't really a worthless person and that there are many people how love her as she is???

If Gen is going for Greek tragedy then she's going to make a freaking contract and fall for it because it means she learned nothing. BUT if Gen is going for a less tragic ending, then maybe Madoka will finally learn to value herself more, and MAYBE then, she'll be able to unlock her real powers and become the true light alluded to in the manga tag line and the Magia song.
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Old 2011-02-25, 19:41   Link #175
Deconstructor
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Look at it this way. Madoka's main flaw is her inferiority complex. She says so herself to Incubator: she thinks she's worth nothing.

So, considering that, what do you think character development entails for her, becoming a goddes so she can solve all her problems magically, OR learn to accept herself as she is, and realize she isn't really a worthless person and that there are many people how love her as she is???
Interesting point. But you have to think as Homura, not as a viewer.
If I were Homura, telling Madoka about the world's end at Kyubey's paws is not a good idea. Madoka would freak out for a while, and then wish to Kyubey the future away.

I mean, Madoka nearly made the wish after seeing Sayaka in danger, twice. If she were told the entire world is doomed, imagine how willing she would be to contract with Kyubey.
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Old 2011-02-25, 19:58   Link #176
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Interesting point. But you have to think as Homura, not as a viewer.
If I were Homura, telling Madoka about the world's end at Kyubey's paws is not a good idea. Madoka would freak out for a while, and then wish to Kyubey the future away.
But Madoka is the protagonist, so she has to mature on her own and come to the right (or wrong) decision on her own. That's why the plot can't have Homura telling things that would greatly influence her development and decisions as the main character. Yeah, a good in-universe reason for Homura not to spill the beans needs to be given so her actions won't appear contrived and driven by plot necessity, of course.

In any case, it's Madoka's call, not Homura's.
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Old 2011-02-26, 00:45   Link #177
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But Madoka is the protagonist, so she has to mature on her own and come to the right (or wrong) decision on her own. That's why the plot can't have Homura telling things that would greatly influence her development and decisions as the main character. Yeah, a good in-universe reason for Homura not to spill the beans needs to be given so her actions won't appear contrived and driven by plot necessity, of course.
I am just suggesting that if Homura has the ability to tell Madoka about Kyubey's plan but chooses not to, this might be the reason. Yes, I know that Homura could have spoiled the entire backstory in episode 1, but maybe there's a logical reason behind that. Maybe Homura is keeping silent for other reasons than "the plot must reveal itself."
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Old 2011-02-26, 03:22   Link #178
BaKaBaKaOtaKu
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Homura might have spilled the beans during her early iterations(if ever)- getting the same result-DOOM. Now, perhaps she figured out that she must try to alter her method(telling them outright about the apocalypse etc.), leading her choosing to stop madoka W/O spilling the beans. And she thought,by doing these, she'd get to succeed in stopping madoka from contracting QB.

but unfortunately,she's getting the same result still that's why she cried.
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Old 2011-02-26, 03:56   Link #179
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But Madoka is the protagonist, so she has to mature on her own and come to the right (or wrong) decision on her own. That's why the plot can't have Homura telling things that would greatly influence her development and decisions as the main character. Yeah, a good in-universe reason for Homura not to spill the beans needs to be given so her actions won't appear contrived and driven by plot necessity, of course.

In any case, it's Madoka's call, not Homura's.
I think that you're probably right Madoka needs to fix that self esteem issue of hers. But, I don't agree that Homura would not be a great influence on that particular issue. Self-esteem building is usually an arduous and long process especially if you believe that your life meant so little that you are willing to trade it for so many things like Madoka have tried to do so many times.

What Madoka needs right now, is someone who sees her worth as Kaname Madoka and guess who fits the bill . I know that the textbook example of self-esteem or confidence is it is innate and not reliant on others, but sometimes before you can believe in yourself, you need someone who believes in you. Yep, Kamina you got the right idea. ^^

It is very hard to not think of yourself as unimportant when someone is doing everything they can for you like Homura can. Really when someone proclaims that they like you or think your doing a good job everyday or at least express it in actions, your self esteem is guaranteed to rise a little just by the sheer propaganda. At the very least, Madoka must have consideration to those who treasure her existence. Now, Homura just needs to be a little more obvious to the characters and communicate more. sigh .... not going to happen ... oh well ... I can hope...


Btw, I can think of one story justification of why Homura is not doing anything or telling everybody. She already did and it did not work well.

Theory 1 = You can't fight Fate
Every time she tells someone of the future and due to can't fight fate... static like in ep. 8 happen. Either, the someone forgets the said information, get seriously confused like Madoka who can't seemed to process it or Homura can't actually tell.

Another version of this is anytime that Homura tried to change the future for the better something worse happen or it becomes negligible. For example save Mami from the witch in ep 3 but Mami get killed by something else or become a witch who knows.

Theory 2 = Time looping
Homura has been looping this thing for quite a while. I made some theories earlier and one thing I've noticed about it is, for the origin theory of Homura to actually work in context and not be riddled by humongous holes is for this time line that is happening right now cannot be Homura's first foray into time travel especially if the first episode dream is past reiteration and there are growing evidence that Homura and Madoka knows each other somehow.

Observations: (Pls. correct me if I'm wrong or if there is any point of contention)
1. Homura's wish is related to time somehow. There is a ridiculous amount of evidence for this that it is almost confirmed.
2. Homura in dream episode 1 is already a magical girl and Madoka is not. Homura is fighting Walpurgist alone.
3. Madoka or any other character for that matter in the current timeline do not know Homura until she transfered.

Let's see if its Homura's wish to travel in time and this caused her to go back and we assume this is the first time travel of Homura. Then, that means dream is premonition.
( I don't like this theory much since it doesn't explain Homura's character much except that she really is that cold blooded and yes she only cares for Madoka and yes she have very bad communication problem. Because anyone really especially someone from the future who is a combat pragmatist like Homura is going to do everything and exploit future knowledge as much as she can even if she only cares for Madoka)

Another theory, assume dream sequence is a past event. This would mean that Homura already used her wish and the dream sequence for Homura is already a re-winded time line perhaps her second one at the very least? Best case scenario here is the current time line is Homura's third try...

It would be however very likely that Homura has many more tries than that... assuming that Madoka always use her wish to rewind time or cause a reset of sort which only Homura remembers due to the nature of her wish or to make Homura more hax her full power is time travel for a few weeks.

This would mean repeated failures of course which would make Homura have a very hard emotional armor in order to go on and not despair. Homura must have been really exhausted all options of being a nice comrade and forcefully changing the future and it did not work, technically it would be the first thing she would try... So now, Homura is being really subtle about her future manipulation or just intervening when she can. And really in hindsight, Homura has statistics of Walpurgis implying that she at least have experienced it quite a bit to know this particular information.

Theory 3= You can't fight Fate + looping ( Screw destiny , there is a happy ending somewhere)
Of course, it is highly possible that both version is correct for maximum drama. Assume that there is some sort of you can't fight fate effect happening which is why Homura even in the number of reiterations she's been doing is not able to find the good end. ^^
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Old 2011-02-26, 06:19   Link #180
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Just a note on the names - "Homura" is a word for flame (like honou). Interestingly, both of my dictionaries give me a second definition, as a metaphor for "fires of rage/jealosy/hate" - my classical Japanese dictionary gives me a quote from Chikamatsu, "美女は悪女の焔の種" which is something like "a beautiful woman is the seed of a evil woman's hate (homura)".

An interesting name, to say the least.
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