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Old 2011-03-10, 23:48   Link #741
omimon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThereminVox View Post
Spoiler for Kyubey:
Madoka did defeat Walpurgis the first time, its just that her soul gem got destroyed too. Probably did what Kyouko did in the current timeline.
What Kyubee did makes sense since he wanted Madoka as a witch so the only choice was have Homura travel back in time and give Madoka a second chance at becoming a witch. The only requirements for him to win is Madoka going witch after Homura dies.

It seems the Kyubee is officially a liar and this time with evidence. In the current timeline he made it sound like he is trying to save humanity but in the timeline that came before the current one he pretty much left it to rot against witch Madoka.
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Old 2011-03-10, 23:55   Link #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omimon View Post
Madoka did defeat Walpurgis the first time, its just that her soul gem got destroyed too. Probably did what Kyouko did in the current timeline.
What Kyubee did makes sense since he wanted Madoka as a witch so the only choice was have Homura travel back in time and give Madoka a second chance at becoming a witch. The only requirements for him to win is Madoka going witch after Homura dies.

It seems the Kyubee is officially a liar and this time with evidence. In the current timeline he made it sound like he is trying to save humanity but in the timeline that came before the current one he pretty much left it to rot against witch Madoka.
Oh, good catch. That certainly gave QB plenty of reason to grant Homura her wish.

Edit: Though I'd contest the whole she did defeat the Walpurgis the first time part. Totally agree that it was the soul gem being destroyed that gave QB the motivation to grant Homura's wish, so he would have a chance to get that delicious soul gem to turn into a grief seed. From his perspective, he probably sees no way he can be defeated (or, rather, the entire system), so he looses nothing since he had already lost Madoka's soul gem in that timeline.

Last edited by creb; 2011-03-11 at 00:24.
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Old 2011-03-11, 00:27   Link #743
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
Oh, good catch. That certainly gave QB plenty of reason to grant Homura her wish.
Umm, no. If he simply wanted a redo and get another chance at madoka's energy he screwed himself because the wish negates his success. The loop only stops if madoka never becomes a MS and also survives WN. If the wish was supposed to give QB a second chance, he would have exited at current loop -1 where he basically won it all. Madoka made a pact and also became a witch. Homura was able to wipe it and just start another loop though. So basically, he can't win under the current circumstance so he would never have knowingly granted the wish as a means to further his own goals.
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Old 2011-03-11, 00:36   Link #744
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Originally Posted by henwy View Post
Umm, no. If he simply wanted a redo and get another chance at madoka's energy he screwed himself because the wish negates his success. The loop only stops if madoka never becomes a MS and also survives WN. If the wish was supposed to give QB a second chance, he would have exited at current loop -1 where he basically won it all. Madoka made a pact and also became a witch. Homura was able to wipe it and just start another loop though. So basically, he can't win under the current circumstance so he would never have knowingly granted the wish as a means to further his own goals.
Wrong, QB just needs Homura to die to end the time loop. It can't be killed so far as whats within Homura's power to do so, so he has nothing to fear in terms of that.

In QB's mind the equation is this: Madoka alive + QB + time = Ultimate Witch.

All other factors aren't worth mentioning, even Homura because she can't kill QB completely. So he can continue to persuade Madoka with more situations even if WPN passes.
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Old 2011-03-11, 00:44   Link #745
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Originally Posted by henwy View Post
Umm, no. If he simply wanted a redo and get another chance at madoka's energy he screwed himself because the wish negates his success. The loop only stops if madoka never becomes a MS and also survives WN.
No, the loop ends if Madoka does not become a witch and survives. Madoka herself was the one who asked Homura to stop her from being stupid. It was never part of her wish.

If the power stacking of Madoka due to time looping is true and if Kyubei knows this, then it makes sense for him to allow the wish. Sooner of later Madoka will exit the loop herself due to her power exceeding that needed to destroy the W-night witch. Once that is done, Kyubei needs to merely wait for Homura and her to transform. Fail point here is that they can suicide, which would not bring about the energy (assuming that the energy is generated at that point is true)

Alternatively, Kyubei does not have the ability to grant wishes, merely allowing the MS 's soul power to make their wishes come true, in which case he is open to attack from wishes against his interests.
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Old 2011-03-11, 05:23   Link #746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omimon View Post
It seems the Kyubee is officially a liar and this time with evidence. In the current timeline he made it sound like he is trying to save humanity but in the timeline that came before the current one he pretty much left it to rot against witch Madoka.
I'm pretty sure he flat-out lied to Madoka to get her to form a contract in the most recent timeline. He went on and on about how her powers could undoubtedly SAVE EVERYONE and REVERSE THE DISASTER fully knowing her contract would just cause more disaster.
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Old 2011-03-11, 05:37   Link #747
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In order to get what he wants, he'll say ANYTHING to get them to make the contract. What a great salesman. :/
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Old 2011-03-11, 05:52   Link #748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omimon View Post
Madoka did defeat Walpurgis the first time, its just that her soul gem got destroyed too. Probably did what Kyouko did in the current timeline.
What Kyubee did makes sense since he wanted Madoka as a witch so the only choice was have Homura travel back in time and give Madoka a second chance at becoming a witch. The only requirements for him to win is Madoka going witch after Homura dies.

It seems the Kyubee is officially a liar and this time with evidence. In the current timeline he made it sound like he is trying to save humanity but in the timeline that came before the current one he pretty much left it to rot against witch Madoka.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
I'm pretty sure he flat-out lied to Madoka to get her to form a contract in the most recent timeline. He went on and on about how her powers could undoubtedly SAVE EVERYONE and REVERSE THE DISASTER fully knowing her contract would just cause more disaster.
Huh? Someone remind me where he said explicitly that reversing/countering entropy was to help humanity? Pretty sure his race is aware of the issue, thus the purpose was to save themselves?

Saving everyone is a lie? He slyly means averting the current situation. Nothing about what may or may not happen in the future.
Think of this: Mami wished to live after the car crash...and she dies later on. Does that mean Mami didn't have her wish granted?

What makes him such a brilliant character is his choice of words.
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Old 2011-03-11, 08:39   Link #749
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Didn't QB make a comment that one day humanity will join up with QB's?
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Old 2011-03-11, 09:12   Link #750
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Not just that, he pretty much "die in order to save humanity"
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Old 2011-03-11, 09:24   Link #751
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
Huh? Someone remind me where he said explicitly that reversing/countering entropy was to help humanity? Pretty sure his race is aware of the issue, thus the purpose was to save themselves?

Saving everyone is a lie? He slyly means averting the current situation. Nothing about what may or may not happen in the future.
Think of this: Mami wished to live after the car crash...and she dies later on. Does that mean Mami didn't have her wish granted?

What makes him such a brilliant character is his choice of words.
This brings up the point of how Kyubey represents every evil Advertising Agent & Telemerketer out there:


Kyubey says "Make a contract, and your wish is fulfilled!". Isn't that basically the major point of every Advertising campaign out there? He said such words instead of "Join me and become really powerful witches".

And, everytime Kyubey says something, he always uses the word "contract" which is a major business term amongst salesmen, marketing execs, PR consultants and Ad Men. Isn't it obvious that Kyubey is nothing more than a telemarketer for witches?

And besides, "Magical Girl" is nothing more than a PR word for "witch". I mean, if you're going to recruit humans into witches, you don't say "witch", you'll of course say the PR word that is "Magical Girl". And that could easily fool people into becoming witches, because they think "Magical Girl" is a positive term, eventhough we all know that it's nothing more than an endurance test to turn them into witches.

And if you look at the PR and Advertising for Blackwater, Fox News, Monsanto, Pharmaceutical companies and BP, what they say are exactly similar to what Kyubey has said.

So yeah, Kyubey is a representation of modern Bernaysian propaganda methods we called "Public Relations", using good words to hype up and give a good image to evil.
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Old 2011-03-11, 10:43   Link #752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
I'm pretty sure he flat-out lied to Madoka to get her to form a contract in the most recent timeline. He went on and on about how her powers could undoubtedly SAVE EVERYONE and REVERSE THE DISASTER fully knowing her contract would just cause more disaster.
Technically Kyubey's telling the truth, as Madoka will save the world from Walpurgisnacht.

Of course he doesn't mention she will doom the world to an even worse fate if she becomes a Witch.
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Old 2011-03-11, 14:09   Link #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taufiq91 View Post
This brings up the point of how Kyubey represents every evil Advertising Agent & Telemerketer out there:


Kyubey says "Make a contract, and your wish is fulfilled!". Isn't that basically the major point of every Advertising campaign out there? He said such words instead of "Join me and become really powerful witches".

And, everytime Kyubey says something, he always uses the word "contract" which is a major business term amongst salesmen, marketing execs, PR consultants and Ad Men. Isn't it obvious that Kyubey is nothing more than a telemarketer for witches?

And besides, "Magical Girl" is nothing more than a PR word for "witch". I mean, if you're going to recruit humans into witches, you don't say "witch", you'll of course say the PR word that is "Magical Girl". And that could easily fool people into becoming witches, because they think "Magical Girl" is a positive term, eventhough we all know that it's nothing more than an endurance test to turn them into witches.

And if you look at the PR and Advertising for Blackwater, Fox News, Monsanto, Pharmaceutical companies and BP, what they say are exactly similar to what Kyubey has said.

So yeah, Kyubey is a representation of modern Bernaysian propaganda methods we called "Public Relations", using good words to hype up and give a good image to evil.
As my manager form a previous job always say,

"It is not what you say, it is how you say it"
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Old 2011-03-11, 16:06   Link #754
Quadratic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekirei07 View Post
Didn't QB make a comment that one day humanity will join up with QB's?
He made a speculative comment.
Spoiler for MAJOR spoilers involving episode 10:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taufiq91 View Post
This brings up the point of how Kyubey represents every evil Advertising Agent & Telemerketer out there:


Kyubey says "Make a contract, and your wish is fulfilled!". Isn't that basically the major point of every Advertising campaign out there? He said such words instead of "Join me and become really powerful witches".

And, everytime Kyubey says something, he always uses the word "contract" which is a major business term amongst salesmen, marketing execs, PR consultants and Ad Men. Isn't it obvious that Kyubey is nothing more than a telemarketer for witches?

And besides, "Magical Girl" is nothing more than a PR word for "witch". I mean, if you're going to recruit humans into witches, you don't say "witch", you'll of course say the PR word that is "Magical Girl". And that could easily fool people into becoming witches, because they think "Magical Girl" is a positive term, eventhough we all know that it's nothing more than an endurance test to turn them into witches.

And if you look at the PR and Advertising for Blackwater, Fox News, Monsanto, Pharmaceutical companies and BP, what they say are exactly similar to what Kyubey has said.

So yeah, Kyubey is a representation of modern Bernaysian propaganda methods we called "Public Relations", using good words to hype up and give a good image to evil.
Exactly. If someone tries to sue him (yeah, good luck with that, lol), he can say "well, hold on, that's not what I said. My exact words were...".
The fact is, is that people are filling in the gaps themselves which makes them think he lied about things.


Oh, and about the manga. Let's not bring that into the anime, because he's clearly different in that one. Kyubei is showing emotions the manga (judging from the posted images - haven't read it myself), whereas the anime explicitly says Kyubei is incapable of emotions.
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Old 2011-03-11, 18:00   Link #755
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I've seen too many government propaganda videos to buy Kyubey's point. How many times has some asshole dictator called on your sacred duty to fight against "evil" to furfill their own agenda?

Fight the power!
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Old 2011-03-11, 18:17   Link #756
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I've seen too many government propaganda videos to buy Kyubey's point. How many times has some asshole dictator called on your sacred duty to fight against "evil" to furfill their own agenda?

Fight the power!
Nah, Government propaganda is horrible,

but nothing compares to Blackwater and other "Private Military Contractors":




Think about it:

Erik prince=Kyubey

Military Contractors=Mahou Shoujos (except the fact that most Military Contractors are former Marines and SEALS, whereas Mahou Shoujos are just Japanese teen girls).
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Old 2011-03-11, 19:39   Link #757
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From a recent interview with the series director:

Quote:
Q - PMMM is now approaching the climactic stage. Is there anything to watch for at this final part?
A - Kyubei is still Kyubei at the end. And personally I am happy with that
That scares the crap out of me
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Old 2011-03-11, 19:44   Link #758
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From a recent interview with the series director:



That scares the crap out of me
That annoying prick lives huh? Too bad then....
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Old 2011-03-11, 19:57   Link #759
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
From a recent interview with the series director:



That scares the crap out of me
Oh, Shinbo-sensei, you're just waiting for this series to end so that you can start making new seasons of SZS aren't ya? (I don't know how a 4th season of Zetsubou looks like though).
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Old 2011-03-12, 03:29   Link #760
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I've just re watched Episode 8 , and some things jump right out at me .

In episode 8 , Homura mentions that Kyubey has a true form, and certain.... plans. Could it be that Walpuirgis is Kyubey ?????

Perhaps all the Grief Seeds collected by Kyubey is used to produce a Walpurgis night , multiple Grief Seeds blended together to create a Super Witch , that would reverse massive quantities of Entropy in the process . This Walpurgis Night is directly controlled and managed by Kyubey himself , hence essentially being Kyubey's true form ?

I mention this because of Episode 10. So far as I know , it has not been showed when, where and under what circumstances Homura learned of Kyubey's true form . Walpurgis Night = Kyubey could be a very real possibility here.
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