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Old 2011-02-07, 03:04   Link #101
fukarming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decagon View Post
too many text
I believe everyone saw what you post when they watch the episode. And there is no doubt that the director wants you to think Kyubei is suspicious. However, is it correct to assume Kyubei is evil just because the director want you to think so? In a classic Japanese detective story, there is usually one suspect who looks extremely suspicious, but that person is usually not the murderer. Instead the plain looking background character is indeed the murderer.

It is just my belief, but I believe critical analysis is about taking the image/ emotion away and only think about the facts. Just because a gorgeous looking lady claim she uses a certain product to make her look good doesn't mean you should believe her (how long has she use the product? what else did she do?); Just because someone, who is on a trial for murder, who has a stutter problem, who looks extremely suspicious, doesn't mean they commit the murderer when he claim he is innocent.

Truth be told, if the pay is 1:1 on whether Kyubei is amoral or evil. I will probably bet on the evil side. However, many member on animesuki already assume that Kyubei is the most evil creature in the universe. The bet is like 10:1 or 100:1 on the amoral/ evil scale. In that case, given the current evidence I will bet on Kyubei being not evil.
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Old 2011-02-07, 03:36   Link #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
I believe everyone saw what you post when they watch the episode. And there is no doubt that the director wants you to think Kyubei is suspicious. However, is it correct to assume Kyubei is evil just because the director want you to think so? In a classic Japanese detective story, there is usually one suspect who looks extremely suspicious, but that person is usually not the murderer. Instead the plain looking background character is indeed the murderer.

It is just my belief, but I believe critical analysis is about taking the image/ emotion away and only think about the facts. Just because a gorgeous looking lady claim she uses a certain product to make her look good doesn't mean you should believe her (how long has she use the product? what else did she do?); Just because someone, who is on a trial for murder, who has a stutter problem, who looks extremely suspicious, doesn't mean they commit the murderer when he claim he is innocent.

Truth be told, if the pay is 1:1 on whether Kyubei is amoral or evil. I will probably bet on the evil side. However, many member on animesuki already assume that Kyubei is the most evil creature in the universe. The bet is like 10:1 or 100:1 on the amoral/ evil scale. In that case, given the current evidence I will bet on Kyubei being not evil.
Since QB does not outwardly exhibit the same range of emotion the girls in the series do, I believed that looking at his body language and reactions in the course of events is a less traveled venue to analyze his character as many of us have already been dicing at what he has said or has not said, has done or has not done, or references to a certain German epic.

I was of the impression that in the first two episodes, especially after going back over it rather carefully, Kyubey's actions present him as an innocent, typical cute, fluffy mascot that sits back and lets the MG do the fighting. As much as we can doubt something for being too obviously dark as episodes 4 and 5 have started to become, why don't we doubt Kyubey more because he acts too much like a magical girl mascot?
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Old 2011-02-07, 04:34   Link #103
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as urobuchi had said, kyubey is the very key to the story along with homura. whether he is evil or not, i can't still make an assumption.
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Old 2011-02-07, 06:09   Link #104
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Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
Except that Kyubei do not have the power of a leader. He is shown powerless before Homura. What make you think he can subdue Kyoko?
Seriously now you're moving the goal from being neutral to him taking an active side and subdue Kyoko? Are you sure you're aware of what the point was in the first place?

By simply informing both of them he would not need any power to "subdue" either. You want to kill him? Think he's weak and easily dead? Consider the fact of Homura's attempt (someone he noted that even he had no idea what she would do. What does that imply?). Homura consistently missed him and only one hit and her ultra powerful ability to pop up suddenly (time or space control doesn't matter) FAILED. Then consider the fact why she did not CONTINUE attempting to kill him. Its not like she did not have enough chances if she was spying on him.

Then consider this. If he was that easily dead, why isn't he? Any MS pissed off at their contract could simply attempt to kill him, no?

Last edited by FlavorOfLife; 2011-02-07 at 06:23.
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Old 2011-02-07, 06:21   Link #105
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Originally Posted by Decagon View Post
(1:54) [Full view of QB from front, he wags his tail as he speaks.] "If you give up, then it's over. But you can change destiny."
(2:07) [Long shot of QB and Madoka from the front. QB is staring forward.] "Unavoidable destruction, grief... [QB turns toward Madoka] You can reject them. You hold that power."
I consider that double speak when the life of the mahou shoujo was later shown and Homura's word are applied, particularly the unavoidable part.
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Old 2011-02-07, 11:39   Link #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decagon View Post
Since QB does not outwardly exhibit the same range of emotion the girls in the series do, I believed that looking at his body language and reactions in the course of events is a less traveled venue to analyze his character as many of us have already been dicing at what he has said or has not said, has done or has not done, or references to a certain German epic.
One thing to keep in mind, though, if you're going to analyze this as a more "serious" angle... Kyube is a magical creature. He isn't human. His biology is different. Much like an aliens we may encounter in real life, they are going to be so different that it will be nothing like us humans. Thus trying to judge body language and facial expressions using humans as a base, is pretty much a fool's errand.

Quote:
I was of the impression that in the first two episodes, especially after going back over it rather carefully, Kyubey's actions present him as an innocent, typical cute, fluffy mascot that sits back and lets the MG do the fighting. As much as we can doubt something for being too obviously dark as episodes 4 and 5 have started to become, why don't we doubt Kyubey more because he acts too much like a magical girl mascot?
To note, other than Yuuno (and later, Keroberos), none of the magical animals have fought. If they have, it was because they had no choice and even then they didn't do much against baddies. Their role has always been to empower the heroine and let her do the fighting. In that light, Kyube is no different.

Question for those who think Kyube is evil: If he were to approach Madoka in the normal way, begging for her help to become an MG and help him fight witches, and there was no wishes nor compensation... would you still think of him as evil?
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Old 2011-02-07, 14:02   Link #107
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Do note that, for most other magical girls, they usually have enemies bearing down on them when the familiar asks them to take the power and become a magical girl, or get clobbered immediately. Unlike Madoka who keeps getting saved at the last second. In these cases, said girls are usually thankful that they got the power to save themselves.
Come to think of it, that does sound like what Kyubei keeps trying to do, doesn't it? If only he hadn't been knocked out back in ep1 and Mami had been slightly slower...
And put aside whether he's "good" or "evil." Consider he looks "evil" while acting "better" than other familiars. Where do the creators really want to go with his character?
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Old 2011-02-07, 17:41   Link #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
One thing to keep in mind, though, if you're going to analyze this as a more "serious" angle... Kyube is a magical creature. He isn't human. His biology is different. Much like an aliens we may encounter in real life, they are going to be so different that it will be nothing like us humans. Thus trying to judge body language and facial expressions using humans as a base, is pretty much a fool's errand.

To note, other than Yuuno (and later, Keroberos), none of the magical animals have fought. If they have, it was because they had no choice and even then they didn't do much against baddies. Their role has always been to empower the heroine and let her do the fighting. In that light, Kyube is no different.
You've just said he shouldn't be judged for human behavior because "Kyube is a magical creature" and "his biology is different", but why do the magical creatures in other magical girl anime exhibit these very expressions and actions I'm looking for? You seem to be willing to use other magical creatures as a metric to their behavior, so making body language and facial expressions an exception seems short sighted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Question for those who think Kyube is evil: If he were to approach Madoka in the normal way, begging for her help to become an MG and help him fight witches, and there was no wishes nor compensation... would you still think of him as evil?
I'd said this before, but the wish, because of how he presents its concept and scope, seems like a temptation to become a MG rather than a compensation for fighting. If he did not present a wish, I would hold him in much higher regard.
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Old 2011-02-07, 19:06   Link #109
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lol this discussion is pointless because there is simply not enough evidence to verdict anything.

QB is...

Suspicious? Sure as hell. Though in "mafia" suspicious player doesn't always mean mafia...

Opportunistic? Sure as hell. Without regards for other's safety and losses.

Uncaring? Sure as hell. As long as he gets his contracts, all those MGs can rot in hell for all he care.

Though I'm not calling him evil or anything, mind you
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Old 2011-02-07, 21:03   Link #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decagon View Post

I'd said this before, but the wish, because of how he presents its concept and scope, seems like a temptation to become a MG rather than a compensation for fighting.
It seems to me to function as both. Although I might use the word "incentive" instead of "temptation", as the latter is a less neutral term.


Quote:
If he did not present a wish, I would hold him in much higher regard.
Isn't it objectively better for magical girls to get a wish for their troubles than to get nothing at all?

I mean, presuming that the danger and difficulty level of being a magical girl in the Madoka Magica universe remains unchanged, taking the wish benefit away just made things objectively far worse for all magical girls in that universe.

So, I have to say that I disagree with you here. I'd hold Kyubey in lower regard if he didn't offer something in return for filling what is clearly a dangerous role.


It was good to read someone answer Kaijo's question, though, all the same. It's a question that I had on my mind myself.

Part of the reason why I view Kyubey (at least so far) has better than most characters of his character type is that at least he's not simply asking/expecting some girl to fulfill a difficult task for him in return for absolutely nothing at all.
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Old 2011-02-07, 22:30   Link #111
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Isn't it objectively better for magical girls to get a wish for their troubles than to get nothing at all?

I mean, presuming that the danger and difficulty level of being a magical girl in the Madoka Magica universe remains unchanged, taking the wish benefit away just made things objectively far worse for all magical girls in that universe.
Its also possible that whatever higher order of rules Kyuube is working off of (agent for a higher power or a cosmic bet between good and evil- or whatever), he must offer renumeration in order to create a binding MG contract. And it appears that same payment of a wish also serves to keep the contract in force. How that plays out we don't know yet.

To a young girl like Madoka or Sayaka the wish might, at first, seem like a boon and inducement to sign up- but those of us watching behind the fouth wall already suspect there are catches involved. I have a feeling that even granted wishes through QB are a mixed bag.

Do other such animals in the Magical Girl genre reveal the downsides and catches to being a Magical Girl at first or do the girls find out, along with the viewer, as the series progresses? (I understand that the Madoka universe is a dark one, but still there has to be down sides and incentives to push girls over the edge to commit to be MG in other shows- "stop the destruction of the Earth" would be a good motive I guess).
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Old 2011-02-07, 22:39   Link #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decagon View Post
You've just said he shouldn't be judged for human behavior because "Kyube is a magical creature" and "his biology is different", but why do the magical creatures in other magical girl anime exhibit these very expressions and actions I'm looking for? You seem to be willing to use other magical creatures as a metric to their behavior, so making body language and facial expressions an exception seems short sighted.
Ah, but this is a more "realistic" tale, isn't it? A lot of people here have been saying how this series is special, unique, and different. So, do you want to open it up to comparison to other series or no? You can't have it both ways.

Quote:
If he did not present a wish, I would hold him in much higher regard.
Interesting. So if Kyube didn't offer the girls anything for their troubles, he's somehow better.
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Old 2011-02-08, 01:59   Link #113
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This is meant to be a catalog of appearances with QB's actions and speech taken down as a catalog of sorts for reference. If you find something you want to check out, the time stamp should help you find it in whichever sub you prefer. I thought noting the lighting, sfx, and his tone in certain scenes might be too easily criticized as being biased on my part, so I've omitted those.
Spoiler for QB in ep 3:



Spoiler for QB in ep 4:



Spoiler for QB in ep 5:
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Old 2011-02-08, 02:32   Link #114
Decagon
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Ah, but this is a more "realistic" tale, isn't it? A lot of people here have been saying how this series is special, unique, and different.
Please let us know what you specifically find to be more "realistic" about this series as there are a lot of people who find this series special, unique, and different, and all of us would likely have different opinions on what could constitute realism here. If I don't believe I could adequately reply without that information.
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
So, do you want to open it up to comparison to other series or no? You can't have it both ways.
I had never closed it to being compared to other series. To quote myself in my reply to one of fukarming's posts,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Decagon View Post
Since QB does not outwardly exhibit the same range of emotion the girls in the series do, I believed that looking at his body language and reactions in the course of events is a less traveled venue to analyze his character as many of us have already been dicing at what he has said or has not said, has done or has not done, or references to a certain German epic.

I was of the impression that in the first two episodes, especially after going back over it rather carefully, Kyubey's actions present him as an innocent, typical cute, fluffy mascot that sits back and lets the MG do the fighting. As much as we can doubt something for being too obviously dark as episodes 4 and 5 have started to become, why don't we doubt Kyubey more because he acts too much like a magical girl mascot?
To which you replied:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Decagon View Post
Since QB does not outwardly exhibit the same range of emotion the girls in the series do, I believed that looking at his body language and reactions in the course of events is a less traveled venue to analyze his character as many of us have already been dicing at what he has said or has not said, has done or has not done, or references to a certain German epic.
One thing to keep in mind, though, if you're going to analyze this as a more "serious" angle... Kyube is a magical creature. He isn't human. His biology is different. Much like an aliens we may encounter in real life, they are going to be so different that it will be nothing like us humans. Thus trying to judge body language and facial expressions using humans as a base, is pretty much a fool's errand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Decagon View Post
I was of the impression that in the first two episodes, especially after going back over it rather carefully, Kyubey's actions present him as an innocent, typical cute, fluffy mascot that sits back and lets the MG do the fighting. As much as we can doubt something for being too obviously dark as episodes 4 and 5 have started to become, why don't we doubt Kyubey more because he acts too much like a magical girl mascot?
To note, other than Yuuno (and later, Keroberos), none of the magical animals have fought. If they have, it was because they had no choice and even then they didn't do much against baddies. Their role has always been to empower the heroine and let her do the fighting. In that light, Kyube is no different.
I did not believe your points were presented with the thought of closing off comparisons to other series for one and be open to comparisons to other series for the other, so replied to both points with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Decagon View Post
You've just said he shouldn't be judged for human behavior because "Kyube is a magical creature" and "his biology is different", but why do the magical creatures in other magical girl anime exhibit these very expressions and actions I'm looking for? You seem to be willing to use other magical creatures as a metric to their behavior, so making body language and facial expressions an exception seems short sighted.
Unless you find deeper analysis of Kyubey should be exclusive of comparisons to his cohorts in other series?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Interesting. So if Kyube didn't offer the girls anything for their troubles, he's somehow better.
Yes. Do you believe that Sayaka became a MG out of the goodness of her heart to her fellow man? Kyubey had told her earlier that day another MG would arrive to take over. The wish is a tool to pick up on human weakness.
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Old 2011-02-08, 05:46   Link #115
fukarming
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Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
Seriously now you're moving the goal from being neutral to him taking an active side and subdue Kyoko? Are you sure you're aware of what the point was in the first place?

By simply informing both of them he would not need any power to "subdue" either.
What? You are the one that said Kyubei is equal to a crime boss, I question where he got his power and authority. Remember our gang member theory? If he is an over figure to Kyoko (thus not afraid of Kyoko's retaliation) then I would like to see some power from Kyubei.

Read last couple post as I really don't understand where I "lost" you. For a regular colleague being a whistle blower will cause both side to want to kill Kyubei. That is what you said Kyubei should do. (It seems you really disagree with that. Watch some crime drama about spy or undercover then) Of course if he is an overlord/ boss than he can persuade/ force the other to stop the assault, but as we have seen, Kyubei lack the power of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
You want to kill him? Think he's weak and easily dead? Consider the fact of Homura's attempt (someone he noted that even he had no idea what she would do. What does that imply?). Homura consistently missed him and only one hit and her ultra powerful ability to pop up suddenly (time or space control doesn't matter) FAILED. Then consider the fact why she did not CONTINUE attempting to kill him. Its not like she did not have enough chances if she was spying on him.
That is your interpretation of the scene when Homura attacking Kyubei? That Kyubei is dodging skillfully and make a fool out of Homura? Kinda like those martial art movies where the super master is skillfully dodging an opponent's attack to establish his supremacy? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

Homura is not targeting Kyubei anymore is because Kyubei is always with Madoka/another MG. Homura never shows aggressive behavior towards another MG and obviously she don't want to hurt Madoka (knowing Madoka will want to protect Kyubei if she launch an assault on Kyubei before Madoka).

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
Then consider this. If he was that easily dead, why isn't he? Any MS pissed off at their contract could simply attempt to kill him, no?

Because no MG are pissed at Kyubei as Kyubei is always fair. There is always a easy answer for a easy question and you don't need to think so deep. So far only Homura is pissed, and that is not because Kyubei (supposedly) change her into a MG, but because Kyubei tried to contract Modoka.
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Old 2011-02-08, 12:44   Link #116
Kaijo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decagon View Post
Please let us know what you specifically find to be more "realistic" about this series as there are a lot of people who find this series special, unique, and different, and all of us would likely have different opinions on what could constitute realism here.
Because this anime lacks the things like sweatdrops, forehead veins, etc. All those little anime visual tics and exaggerated expressions that normally imply some sort of emotion. With them, a magical animal doesn't much in the way of conveying emotion.

Quote:
Unless you find deeper analysis of Kyubey should be exclusive of comparisons to his cohorts in other series?
On the contrary, I don't find deeper analysis of Kyube to be warranted. As has been pointed out before, his role and actions aren't much different than other magical animals. Well, the only main difference is that he gave the girls a choice, and also offers a pretty hefty compensation factor.

Quote:
Yes. Do you believe that Sayaka became a MG out of the goodness of her heart to her fellow man?
That's not entirely incorrect. If it was just for the wish and just for her friend, Sayaka wouldn't have attacked Kyoko. She very clearly wants to protect the people of the town *and* help Kamijou. The two positions aren't mutually exclusive.

Quote:
Kyubey had told her earlier that day another MG would arrive to take over. The wish is a tool to pick up on human weakness.
No, he told her he had to find another one to protect the town; a distinct difference. You state "the wish is a tool to pick up on human weakness" as if it were a fact, but it's not. Your position is essentially that I want you to perform a service for me, but I won't offer you any compensation. And that's somehow better than someone paying their employee for work rendered.

That's a strange notion you have there. Considering everyone here would love to get paid for what they do, it also smacks of hypocrisy. I can just see the scene now...

Kyube: "Would you like to be a magical girl and fight witches for the rest of your life?"
Random girl #1: "Do I get anything out of it?"
Kyube: "Um, not really, I just really need your help!"
Random Girl: "Well, risk my life over and over for nothing? Sorry..."
Kyube: "Would you like to-"
Random Girl #2: "Nope."

*Repeat several dozen times*

Kyube: (On the phone) "Yeah, this isn't working out too well. It seems not many want to do something without getting paid."
Home Office: "We've been talking it over, and as much as we want to get free labor without paying for it, someone suggested we actually start offering something of value. You can now grant wishes."
Kyube: "Whew, that should make this easier. So many witches and not enough selfless people. But yeah, sucks to actually pay people. Plus, if I start offering something of value, people will think I'm evil or something!"
Home Office: "Why would they? I mean, humankind has been bartering goods and services for thousands of years!"
Kyube: "Hell if I know. People are strange like that."
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Old 2011-02-08, 13:09   Link #117
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Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
What? You are the one that said Kyubei is equal to a crime boss, I question where he got his power and authority. Remember our gang member theory? If he is an over figure to Kyoko (thus not afraid of Kyoko's retaliation) then I would like to see some power from Kyubei.
You already have. The power to contact MS from unknown distances. How did you think he contacted Kyoko? Sent her a letter? What happens if he simply decides that your area is now empty and sends out the invite for other MS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
Read last couple post as I really don't understand where I "lost" you. For a regular colleague being a whistle blower will cause both side to want to kill Kyubei. That is what you said Kyubei should do. (It seems you really disagree with that. Watch some crime drama about spy or undercover then) Of course if he is an overlord/ boss than he can persuade/ force the other to stop the assault, but as we have seen, Kyubei lack the power of that.
You should consider that people already understood your point and moved on from there and now you're missing the point instead. He does NOT need to "persuade/force" them to stop. He needs to simply tell the both of them and survive. Hence if he is high defensive abilities but has the offensive capability of a mouse that is sufficient. He does not need superman powers to smash kyoko or sayaka into obedience which is what you seem to think when you think he is required to "subdue" them.

Hell, he even has telepathy for communication from hiding

Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
That is your interpretation of the scene when Homura attacking Kyubei? That Kyubei is dodging skillfully and make a fool out of Homura? Kinda like those martial art movies where the super master is skillfully dodging an opponent's attack to establish his supremacy? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?
You never counted the shots eh? 7 shots fired. 1 hit. This is when he is already wounded. The injury caused? None visible except sliding on the floor. I like how you try to make my point sound nothing like what i said. Very comedic.

Then there's the part where you did not even attempt to answer why Homura never used her shunpo style movement and was seen very slowly running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
Homura is not targeting Kyubei anymore is because Kyubei is always with Madoka/another MG. Homura never shows aggressive behavior towards another MG and obviously she don't want to hurt Madoka (knowing Madoka will want to protect Kyubei if she launch an assault on Kyubei before Madoka).
Sayaka + Kubei in ep 3 ring a bell? Kyubei leaving in ep 4 ring a bell? Do you really need to to list down when she could have taken shots with Madoka out of the picture?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
Because no MG are pissed at Kyubei as Kyubei is always fair. There is always a easy answer for a easy question and you don't need to think so deep. So far only Homura is pissed, and that is not because Kyubei (supposedly) change her into a MG, but because Kyubei tried to contract Modoka.
Eh you must be joking. Your statement here would invalidate your own gang example. According to you, if the targetted gang member (Sayaka) survived, he would not be pissed enough to off his "colleague" (Kyubei, since you seem to think he's not the boss who recruits people).

The problem lies with your own sentence "as Kyubei is always fair", which fails the Kyoko/Homura/Sayaka example.
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Old 2011-02-08, 13:53   Link #118
Ricky Controversy
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@FlavorofLife: You can justify Kyuube's ability to intercede in situations as much as you want, but then you're basically asking Kyuube to undertake something that is not his duty. Kyuube's role is to contact potential Puella Magi and offer them the exchange. He lets them know what they're getting into and offers a compensation that he fairly delivers on.

From then on out, things fall into the Puella Magi's hands, and you know what? That's perfectly fair. Since I like Kaijo's 'capitalism' analogy, let's expand on that theme. When you take a job, a typical, mutually beneficial arrangement between employer and employee will look like this.

Employee receives
-Payment (In this case, a wish)
-Equipment, facilities, information necessary to perform assigned tasks (In this case, magical powers)

Employee undertakes
-Assigned tasks (Fighting witches)
-Responsibility to ensure they are able to continue such tasks (Surviving other challenges and keeping themselves healthy and stable)

What people who want Kyuube to more directly intercede are basically asking that a manager take over that second responsibility for his employees. While a caring manager can be a good thing, a manager who doesn't add 'babysitting my employees at all times' to his list of things to do is not suddenly morally at fault. Especially if he's busy with lots of other employees, he's just being pragmatic.

Where I think people are running aground with Kyuube is, as I've said, that this is not a rose-tinted fantasy as most Mahou Shoujo stories are. This is not a world where little girls are readily willing to throw their lives away in battle against violent horrors without personal compensation, nor a world where the powers that be have the desire to hold the hands of their human agents. It's a world where people have their own motives and act accordingly. That doesn't make Kyuube evil, it makes Kyuube pragmatic. I don't think he builds any catch into the wish that the girls aren't warned of beforehand--how heavy their unique cost is depends on their own actions.
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Old 2011-02-08, 14:14   Link #119
Slick_rick
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy View Post
What people who want Kyuube to more directly intercede are basically asking that a manager take over that second responsibility for his employees. While a caring manager can be a good thing, a manager who doesn't add 'babysitting my employees at all times' to his list of things to do is not suddenly morally at fault. Especially if he's busy with lots of other employees, he's just being pragmatic.
This would of course require to believe that employers have no responsibility towards the safety of their employees. Why do coal mines supervisors alert their employees of dangers or put in safety measure they are just doing the job of coal miners who should anticipate danger and make it out alive. Correct?

In his situation I would say the actions of a moral person would put the safety of the employee first, the action of a amoral person would put the business first, and an immoral person would just take pleasure over the consequences. In my opinion only being amoral and immoral are left open for QB.
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Old 2011-02-08, 14:22   Link #120
Ricky Controversy
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
This would of course require to believe that employers have no responsibility towards the safety of their employees. Why do coal mines supervisors alert their employees of dangers or put in safety measure they are just doing the job of coal miners who should anticipate danger and make it out alive. Correct?
No, what it requires us to believe is that employers do not intercede in the affairs of their employees where it's beyond the line of duty. An employer's concern is only with their employee's welfare during their work hours. If two coal miners get in a fight in a bar, it's not on the supervisor's head to break that fight up even if he has foreknowledge that it will happen. You said yourself 'alert employees of dangers or put in safety measures': Kyuube took the steps to give the Puella Magi every protection he can possibly afford them for their duties by both empowering them and letting them know what threats they'd face. If they choose to go after each other, the burden of responsibility is on them, not him.

Quote:
In his situation I would say the actions of a moral person would put the safety of the employee first, the action of a amoral person would put the business first, and an immoral person would just take pleasure over the consequences. In my opinion only being amoral and immoral are left open for QB.
And I agree that Kyuube is amoral. He's a pragmatist. What bothers me is people acting like he's evil or suspicious because of that. He's just neutral. It would be more morally laudable for him to resolve the dispute himself if he can, but it's also in no way required of him.
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