AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Infinite Stratos

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-10-01, 23:29   Link #2021
Masuzu
ヒーロー
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: キセキの世代
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
Actually the Strike Gundam CAN be explained. It puts on different armors whenever it has to depending on who's fighting. The sword and shield is the all rounder, the bazooka's for long range but only has the knife for CQC, the big blue sword one is strong but completely lacks a gun etc etc. Unfortunately I can't use this explanation for the IS suits.
Think of it this way then, Mysterious Lady
is good in dealing with various situations
due to being equipped for long-mid-close
range combat, and a solid defense, yet,
her IS can still be outmatched by an IS
that specializes in a certain field, for
example: she has a nice sword, but it's
nowhere near Yukihira, she has a nice gun,
but Ugachi is definitely stronger, her water
can act as a good shield, but Setsura and
the AIC are much more suited for defending.
__________________
Masuzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-01, 23:29   Link #2022
wavehawk
O GALILEO LET ME GO
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
To be more accurate, the Aile Strike form is a high-mobility form., save that it has decent armor capability (most hi-maneuver units posses less armor in order to add mobility). Launcher loses mobility for ranged firepower and Sword gains close-combat ability and is the lightest unit, but lacks ranged abilities.

In the sense of <Mysterious Lady>, it's a very powerful IS with a lof or options, but is primarily a short- to middle-range unit with the weapons it possesses. Yes it has a gatling, but that's hardly the same as a sniper rifle, and definitely no BVR (Beyond Visual Range) weaponry. It could probably be beaten by <Blue Tears> or a <Rafale Revive> with sniping equipment from extreme range--eg not the ranges Cecillia snipes at, but true sniping ranges between 700-1400 meters or beyond.

Actually, <Blue Tears> weapon is probably ideal against <Mysterious Lady> at range since it';s a particle beam weapon and thus has more power than a shell-based rifle...plus it will have a smaller deviance in firing (eg gravity will not affect its accuracy as much as a physical shell)
__________________
"This is the worst webpage ever. Of all time."
wavehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-01, 23:29   Link #2023
Eratas123
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
Wasn't it said that Tatenashi's IS is not good against frames with HEAVY defense (Squall and Golems)?
THANK YOU! That's something I can exploit! If you can't take them head on then you have to do it with stealth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Detective-san View Post
Think of it this way then, Mysterious Lady
is good in dealing with various situations
due to being equipped for long-mid-close
range combat, and a solid defense, yet,
her IS can still be outmatched by an IS
that specializes in a certain field, for
example: she has a nice sword, but it's
nowhere near Yukihira, she has a nice gun,
but Ugachi is definitely stronger, her water
can act as a good shield, but Setsura and
the AIC are much more suited for defending.
So you're saying that her IS can be beaten down as long as the pilot is good enough in their specialty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehawk View Post
To be more accurate, the Aile Strike form is a high-mobility form., save that it has decent armor capability (most hi-maneuver units posses less armor in order to add mobility). Launcher loses mobility for ranged firepower and Sword gains close-combat ability and is the lightest unit, but lacks ranged abilities.

In the sense of <Mysterious Lady>, it's a very powerful IS with a lof or options, but is primarily a short- to middle-range unit with the weapons it possesses. Yes it has a gatling, but that's hardly the same as a sniper rifle, and definitely no BVR (Beyond Visual Range) weaponry. It could probably be beaten by <Blue Tears> or a <Rafale Revive> with sniping equipment from extreme range--eg not the ranges Cecillia snipes at, but true sniping ranges between 700-1400 meters or beyond.

Actually, <Blue Tears> weapon is probably ideal against <Mysterious Lady> at range since it';s a particle beam weapon and thus has more power than a shell-based rifle...plus it will have a smaller deviance in firing (eg gravity will not affect its accuracy as much as a physical shell)
Thanks for the analysis wavehawk-sama So sniping can destroy her shields? How strong do you think the shell has to be to pierce through and do you think it can be done with conventional weaponry?
Eratas123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-01, 23:44   Link #2024
wavehawk
O GALILEO LET ME GO
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
Thanks for the analysis wavehawk-sama So sniping can destroy her shields?
- Yes and No. The main advantage in sniping is that you'll be able to gain a head start and advantage in terms of shooting. If the first hit doesn't penetrate, you'd better make sure your second shot does. Otherwise, you need to relocate before the enemy can get a fix on your position and hit back.

Ideally it'll be from an ambush position, because only a complete idiot would try to snipe someone who knows exactly where their position is.

*coughcough*Cecillia*coughcough*

Quote:
How strong do you think the shell has to be to pierce through and do you think it can be done with conventional weaponry?
- I think it can be done using conventional weaponry, but I'd need to know exactly how powerful her shields are to figure out just how much of a shell is needed, the size and safe distance. Since it's an IS, anything short of an actual explosive shell is pointless. That and the smallest 'sniping' round I know of (existing in real life) would be a 25mm sniping round:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_XM109

Bear in mind, that's the SMALLEST I would recommend. knowing the shielsds in IS, it'll most likely be bigger.
__________________
"This is the worst webpage ever. Of all time."
wavehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-01, 23:52   Link #2025
Eratas123
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehawk View Post
- Yes and No. The main advantage in sniping is that you'll be able to gain a head start and advantage in terms of shooting. If the first hit doesn't penetrate, you'd better make sure your second shot does. Otherwise, you need to relocate before the enemy can get a fix on your position and hit back.

Ideally it'll be from an ambush position, because only a complete idiot would try to snipe someone who knows exactly where their position is.

*coughcough*Cecillia*coughcough*

- I think it can be done using conventional weaponry, but I'd need to know exactly how powerful her shields are to figure out just how much of a shell is needed, the size and safe distance. Since it's an IS, anything short of an actual explosive shell is pointless. That and the smallest 'sniping' round I know of (existing in real life) would be a 25mm sniping round:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_XM109

Bear in mind, that's the SMALLEST I would recommend. knowing the shielsds in IS, it'll most likely be bigger.
*Irish starts looking around for a Barret_XM109* Mwahahaha! Time to get some revenge!
Eratas123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-01, 23:58   Link #2026
wavehawk
O GALILEO LET ME GO
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Uhm, I said that would be ths SMALLEST weapon I woudl recommend, Irish. Don't blame me if it proves oo weak against an IS....

Vladimir Putin: "We can always use artillery. It worked against Chechnya."
__________________
"This is the worst webpage ever. Of all time."
wavehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-02, 00:07   Link #2027
Eratas123
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehawk View Post
Uhm, I said that would be ths SMALLEST weapon I woudl recommend, Irish. Don't blame me if it proves oo weak against an IS....

Vladimir Putin: "We can always use artillery. It worked against Chechnya."
Irish: I will have my revenge! *Tries shooting through Tatenashi's IS*

Tatenashi: *Deflects bullet*

Irish: What the!?

Tatenashi: Looks like somebody needs to learn a lesson

Irish: *Looks at Wavehawk's message* NOOOOOOO!~
Eratas123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-02, 00:20   Link #2028
wavehawk
O GALILEO LET ME GO
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
Irish: *Looks at Wavehawk's message* NOOOOOOO!~
- ....baka.

IS Shields work differently from conventional armor. For conventional armor I woudl recommend a discarding sabot--eg a bullet that has a much smaller (usually tungsten) needle tip that penetrates armor by being propelled faster than the sabot it was jacketed in (See Discarding Sabot for a full explanation).

Now this won't work on Is because the shield isn't a physical object but a form of energy. While the sabot will do damage, it probably won't be a lot, and will definitely not penetrate the shield to injure the person inside (which is the point of discarding sabot rounds in the first place). For IS shields, you really will have to chip away at it until the energy supply runs out.

Anyone who's played Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram can probably think of the IS shielding much like the V-Armor used by Virtuaroids in that game: smaller or glancing shots will be deflected with little to no damage, it requires a direct and powerful hit to deplete said armor.
__________________
"This is the worst webpage ever. Of all time."
wavehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-02, 00:32   Link #2029
Eratas123
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehawk View Post
- ....baka.

IS Shields work differently from conventional armor. For conventional armor I woudl recommend a discarding sabot--eg a bullet that has a much smaller (usually tungsten) needle tip that penetrates armor by being propelled faster than the sabot it was jacketed in (See Discarding Sabot for a full explanation).

Now this won't work on Is because the shield isn't a physical object but a form of energy. While the sabot will do damage, it probably won't be a lot, and will definitely not penetrate the shield to injure the person inside (which is the point of discarding sabot rounds in the first place). For IS shields, you really will have to chip away at it until the energy supply runs out.

Anyone who's played Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram can probably think of the IS shielding much like the V-Armor used by Virtuaroids in that game: smaller or glancing shots will be deflected with little to no damage, it requires a direct and powerful hit to deplete said armor.
Irish: *Being forced to crossdress as punishment* Now you tell me...

Do you think things like mini EMP's, Chaff grenades, and energy jammers would work on an IS unit shield? They are made of energy and/or electricity so they should be jammed at least temporarily right?
Eratas123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-02, 00:36   Link #2030
Masuzu
ヒーロー
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: キセキの世代
Btw, she still has a beam canon akin to Setsura,
so let's not say she looses at range, basically I'm
saying that Mysterious Lady (Destiny Gundam) has
a nice sword, but against (Infinite Justice), who
specializes in bladed weaponry, he got cut to pieces,
and even if he has a big-ass canon, he still loses
to (Strike Freedom) in ranged combat, I hope it's
clear now.

About her shields though, just her water shields
(not counting the regular energy barrier an IS has,
and definitely not counting the AB)
she was able to
completely negate Arachne's attacks, also, her
water shields can be converted to attach power by
using it in conjunction with the lance thingy.


(The wiki's quite lacking in info eh?)
__________________
Masuzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-02, 00:43   Link #2031
wavehawk
O GALILEO LET ME GO
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detective-san View Post
Btw, she still has a beam canon akin to Setsura,
so let's not say she looses at range,
- It's still not a sniping weapon. Yes, it may be powerful, but it's not designed for that role.

It's like comparign the GM's Beam Spray Gun against a GM Sniper's Beam Sniper Rifle. Both are powerful weapons, it's just that one tends to lose power and is less accurate at range, while the other is excellent at long, extreme ranges but not the best thing to use in close-in fighting.

I would also say that (and no, it's not a bias) the only person using the full capabilities of her IS is Charlotte. And only because <Rafale Revive Custom II> uses relatively[ conventional weaponry and is a proven platform.

Given what I know of the other machines, I'll have to level criticisms:
  • <Blue Tears>, as I've mentioned before, should be used for longer-range sniping operations with the BT bits used as support. Cecillia's use of <Blue Tears> is far too close-in for a true sniper, and she tends to be too showy--big failigns for a sniper.

    Would help if <Blue Tears> has a stealth cloack to truly make use of the unit's long-range sniping ability. Otherwise, they could have retooled the unit for mid-range gun combat and it would have been fine. While Starlight MkIII is an ecellent particle beam weapon, it's use as a sniping weapon and length make it unwieldy for short-range battle, and workable but not ideal in mid-range battle (You try fighting with a long-range semiauto rifle in middle range)
  • <Shenlong> shoudl primarily be a short and close-range unit. Although it has the Pressure Cannons, they're only really useful in CQB or closer mid-range. The further out you are, the less range it has and the shots can be more easily predicted as such. Linyin actually does rather well, but <Shenlong>'s weaknesses are pretty glaring when you think about it.
  • <Schwarzer Regen> has similar issues as <Shenlong>, as it has a powerful cannon for long- and mid-range as well as whips and an AIC field. Thing is, that makes it more of a defensive IS than an offensive one, since it lacks full-auto weaponry for mid-range attack and only has one blade as a CQB weapon other than the whips. However, given Laura's personality...

    Seriously, <Schwarzer Regen> is a tank. High firepower, high forward defense, but VERY vulnerable to attack from the rear. In tank tactics, your best bet is to move fast and have someone cover your back (usually other tanks or infantry), but Laura...well...
  • <Akatsubaki>, as I mentioned, suffers from being assigned to (or designed for) someone who isn't exactly an A-grade Is pilot. Not going to repeat what I said here, but it's effectively an IS that can't be used to it's fullest due to the limitations of it's pilot.
  • <Byakushiki> is actually used pretty well by Ichika, all other things considered. But one wonders how it would function had it been Chifuyu piloting it...
__________________
"This is the worst webpage ever. Of all time."
wavehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-02, 00:49   Link #2032
wavehawk
O GALILEO LET ME GO
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
Do you think things like mini EMP's, Chaff grenades, and energy jammers would work on an IS unit shield? They are made of energy and/or electricity so they should be jammed at least temporarily right?
- I haven't thought of it, but since IS are designed for space exploration originally, I woudl say EMPs are probably something they've thought of already.

On another note, read the latter parts of my <Ren> fic, and you'll note that I mentioned smoke and possible gas grenades. I haven't seen them actually use the IS underwater or a true vacuum, so I'm not sure if that means the pilots still have to breathe normal air--but I am assumig they have to, as the shield only protects them from conventional/beam weapons, not smoke, tear gas, disease, etc. other agents.

White Phosphorus would be particularly nasty, htough. To Cruel and unusal levels.
__________________
"This is the worst webpage ever. Of all time."
wavehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-02, 00:58   Link #2033
Eratas123
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehawk View Post
- I haven't thought of it, but since IS are designed for space exploration originally, I woudl say EMPs are probably something they've thought of already.

On another note, read the latter parts of my <Ren> fic, and you'll note that I mentioned smoke and possible gas grenades. I haven't seen them actually use the IS underwater or a true vacuum, so I'm not sure if that means the pilots still have to breathe normal air--but I am assumig they have to, as the shield only protects them from conventional/beam weapons, not smoke, tear gas, disease, etc. other agents.

White Phosphorus would be particularly nasty, htough. To Cruel and unusal levels.
Last thing.

Do you think it's possible for a person to just break through the barrier? If a person assaults an IS head on and they manage to get close enough do you think the shield will still block a human body for trying to make contact? If that doesn't work I'll just have to use the jammer knife as a temporary disabler, the weakness being that getting close enough to stab the shield without the IS spotting you is nigh impossible by yourself

Btw, thanks for giving me an idea Cecilia's gonna get a new stealth field
Eratas123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-02, 00:59   Link #2034
Masuzu
ヒーロー
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: キセキの世代
I never really said it was good
for sniping, I was just using it
to complete the SEED analogy,
oh and another thing:

Quote:
suffers from being assigned to (or designed for) someone who isn't exactly an A-grade Is pilot
I don't know if you've forgotten
what happened in Volume 7, but
didn't Houki jump to S-rank? Not
only that, but mastering Kenran
Butou
and unlocking Ugachi,
also being the only one by the end
not in bandages or something?
__________________
Masuzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-02, 01:06   Link #2035
wavehawk
O GALILEO LET ME GO
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123
Btw, thanks for giving me an idea Cecilia's gonna get a new stealth field
- Oh fudge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Detective-san View Post
II don't know if you've forgotten
what happened in Volume 7,
- uhm...haven't read 7 yet, waiting on the official baka-tsuki translation?
__________________
"This is the worst webpage ever. Of all time."
wavehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-02, 01:10   Link #2036
Masuzu
ヒーロー
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: キセキの世代
^ I can't believe you forgot about
that time on the novel thread where
a certain black reaper did the summary
of Volume 7 for us.
__________________
Masuzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-02, 01:15   Link #2037
wavehawk
O GALILEO LET ME GO
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123
Do you think it's possible for a person to just break through the barrier? If a person assaults an IS head on and they manage to get close enough do you think the shield will still block a human
- I don't know. If such tech existed, they'd have used it by now, wouldn't you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Detective-san
^ I can't believe you forgot about
that time on the novel thread where
a certain black reaper did the summary
of Volume 7 for us.
I'll make jdgement when I read the full work, not just the summary.

...wait, what's that dark, dreaded feeling--the sort Ichika gets before someone like Houki brings a sword down on his he---CRACK
__________________
"This is the worst webpage ever. Of all time."
wavehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-02, 01:31   Link #2038
Eratas123
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehawk View Post
- I don't know. If such tech existed, they'd have used it by now, wouldn't you think?


I'll make jdgement when I read the full work, not just the summary.

...wait, what's that dark, dreaded feeling--the sort Ichika gets before someone like Houki brings a sword down on his he---CRACK
I meant if the shield actually repels people If the IS pilot is injured then they might need medical attention so if the shield is still active when the persons knocked out then that would cause problems for them in the long run

The jammer knife is a jury rigged weapon unique only to Irish. even if it was mass produced it wouldn't be very popular as you have to be VERY stealthy to even get close to an IS with it's 360 degree vision Thankfully the Skull suit hides his heat signature from the IS pilot as long as they're distracted/don't know he's there.

Side note- Hold on Old Man! I'll get nurse Charlotte here as fast as I can! Don't die on me!
Eratas123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-02, 01:43   Link #2039
wavehawk
O GALILEO LET ME GO
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
You'd have to explain how the jammer knife works. Most IS have enough energy to power a jury-rigged weapon is that were the case. I think it would be more beievable to have aonce-off jamming unit not in the knife itself but in the area. Something that would prevent it from being used by other IS or even conventional weaponry.
__________________
"This is the worst webpage ever. Of all time."
wavehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-02, 01:54   Link #2040
Eratas123
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehawk View Post
You'd have to explain how the jammer knife works. Most IS have enough energy to power a jury-rigged weapon is that were the case. I think it would be more beievable to have aonce-off jamming unit not in the knife itself but in the area. Something that would prevent it from being used by other IS or even conventional weaponry.
The knife works by stabbing it in machinery and overloading it with signals and frequencies which then stop the machinery for a limited amount of time, permanently if he's lucky. I read on the IS wiki that the IS units still try to fight on full power no matter how many "limbs" it loses so stabbing one will extremely cripple the IS for a time which would allow him enough time to gain distance. The knife is also pretty sharp and can be used in Close quarters combat (Which Irish has absolutely no training in)

Side note- Sorry old man, Charlotte was to busy having f- I mean hanging out with Ichika, yup, that's what I mean.
Eratas123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fanfiction, ff.net, harem, is fanfic, warning fanfic spoilers, wincest

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 20:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.