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Old 2012-03-16, 11:39   Link #26201
demino_hellsin
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But America would be screwing itself by saying they made an IS which breaches treaty because treaty demands that the Silver and the findings with it, even while experimental, should be made known unless it is a technology researched in ISA.

Silver was stated to be developed outside of ISA and I'm pretty sure there is no American personal IS in ISA. if this is the case then Silver is illegal.
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Old 2012-03-16, 11:41   Link #26202
ZeroXSEED
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That's where we should put in comparison. Breaking the rules or not, it's Americans. However, Gospel severed it's own core from Core network, effectively cutting it's ties with the world's I.S. management system.

American sealing the Gospel, saving their own ass in process, is damn wise decision.
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Old 2012-03-16, 11:42   Link #26203
Eratas123
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Screwed or not, it's theirs. If they seal it, they avoid most of the problems or backlash. They were going to seal it anyway, so it's a win win.
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Old 2012-03-16, 11:44   Link #26204
demino_hellsin
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So they swoop in on ISA, and claim the core is a safety hazard without claiming it as their own. And ISA would just let this pass?
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Old 2012-03-16, 11:46   Link #26205
Eratas123
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They would claim It as their own. Considering that the Silverio rampaging was public, it's most likely that it was allowed. It was a treaty experiment, and it might be allowed as a gesture of peace and science.
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Old 2012-03-16, 11:53   Link #26206
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then the level of secrecy demanded of the students involved in the mission would've been meaningless. The mission itself being confidential would be reasonable but I'm sure they weren't allowed to even know about the gospel until Rin/Cecilia(forgot which, but I think it was Rin) had the presence of mind to ask what they were up against. Chifuyu gave them the standard "You squeal, we kill" kind of speech before handing out the specs.
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Old 2012-03-16, 11:58   Link #26207
Eratas123
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Maye cause they were students? Anyway, I don't know much about the legality of IS, so do what you want. I just follow the No war clause and be done with it
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Old 2012-03-16, 12:02   Link #26208
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Thin like this

At the time of attack, information of Gospel is not well known. Not even the fact that it's an illegal design.

When Cecilia asked, they're handed a secret design illegal as it may seems, a secret is a secret.

Because Gospel was engaged mostly in I.S.A. airspace, so the case is kept confidential.

To kept information from leaking further, they're sworn secrecy, possibly happens with the illegal fisher too. (possible blackmailed)

To save their own ass, Gospel is sealed. No gospel = no treaty infringement, and only I.S.A. knew that America is trying to fuck up the status quo.
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Old 2012-03-16, 12:06   Link #26209
demino_hellsin
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but that breaks down in Icarus Wings when Gospel actually got away from the fight and ended up in the hands of Lyon. Lyon called them out on trying to take away his property. But when americans claimed ownership, he called them out on breaking the treaty.
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Old 2012-03-16, 12:15   Link #26210
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Which might result with the United Nations demand the Gospel to be destroyed or the information to be shared.

It works against Lyon in any case.
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Old 2012-03-16, 12:27   Link #26211
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@'Senpai - Do Ichika and Madoka have any impulses or built in attitudes/compuslsions?

Going to sleep.
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Old 2012-03-16, 12:35   Link #26212
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Eh? you mean implanted personality?
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Old 2012-03-16, 20:48   Link #26213
agetreme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
but that breaks down in Icarus Wings when Gospel actually got away from the fight and ended up in the hands of Lyon. Lyon called them out on trying to take away his property. But when americans claimed ownership, he called them out on breaking the treaty.
Still, technically, he didn't own the core. (How can they take away something which he claimed to be his but doesn't belong to him and belongs to them in the first place? It's like I steal your computer from you and claimed it to be mine....because you are not at the computer when I took it from you.)

Technically, he 'stole' it from America.... since it is part of America's property and he is possessing it illegally(note: being a personal IS pilots doesn't mean you own the core but it means that the country or organization loaned the core to you...and they wanted it back as soon as you are done with IS competition).

It's like walking into a house or private property with nobody living in it and claim it as your own.... and you argued that because nobody is living in it anyway.....when the owner is merely away.

The only exception is Houki because Tabane made it for her and no country has claim over her IS core yet..... Probably Japan will do it as soon as she is out of ISA....(Using the house/private property, Houki's IS core is a land which is slightly outside the territorial border and no nation has a claim over it yet....)

edit: breaking a treaty doesn't means Lyon get the core but America being punished for it.... Countries such as China and other nations are more eager to 'punish' America by taking the core and give it to themselves. America sealing away the core is actually America way of pointing the middle finger at them saying: If I can't have it, I will make it useless by sealing the core away....

Moar edit: Going back to the property thingy example again,
Assuming that breaking the treat = breaking contact/law which demands the owner to be in the property for at least a month to claim ownership over it,
even if the owner broke the law, it doesn't mean the 'trespasser' get the property but the government took it back from him.
The Trespasser then can buy the property from the government, then it will legally become his.

But the process is most likely going to be a bid and the poor/Hobo Trespasser(Lyon) is going against powerful and rich people (Powerful nation such as China) who can buy/bribe/exert pressure on the government(UN) to giving them the property (core)....

Even more edit: If the process done by Lyon is threatening/blackmailing America... then they still won't do it because the choice would be worst for them.
> They had already broke a rule
> by agreeing to Lyon's 'arrangement', it is putting them into bigger risk/disadvantage if the other nation found out about it (it means America broke two rules of the treaty: No core transaction/transfer is allowed)
> The punishment for breaking second rule is probably a core taken away from them.... which means they will lose two cores instead of 1.... which is worst than just confess and lose one core instead.
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Last edited by agetreme; 2012-03-16 at 21:22.
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Old 2012-03-17, 00:12   Link #26214
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Speaking of core transfer, that kind of plaguing my fic too.
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Old 2012-03-17, 03:29   Link #26215
Eratas123
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@ Senpai - Something like that. For example: The Ichika clones used as cannon fodder are inherently violent to make them better shock troops. This is another reason Kazuma gets more violent as the story goes.
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Old 2012-03-17, 03:52   Link #26216
demino_hellsin
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Lyon's tactic was more, "Sign it under me and no one will ever know it came from america. Even if they can somehow prove it, Gospel's database at this point is totally shot. No records of being in America will ever be found."

So it's a "make this situation complicated or let's jsut sweep it all under the rug" kind of deal.

EDIT: Hmm... sounds somewhat villainous
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Old 2012-03-17, 04:06   Link #26217
Eratas123
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They'd just kill him if he tried that. Unless you wanna disregard canon, there's no way for him to keep it legally.
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Old 2012-03-17, 04:22   Link #26218
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@ Eras
Actually, they have it: emotion. They are devoid of emotion and human instinct at first (similar to Laura). You could call it Pinocchio syndrome.

@ Demi
No offense, but are you serious? I actually reconsidered "getting Silent Zephyr for Madoka" because of this, and if we could compare, mine are even worse.
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Old 2012-03-17, 04:26   Link #26219
Eratas123
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@ Senpai - All people have emotion, it's a basic instinct. I was wondering if they have a personality or impulse to do things they normally wouldn't do.
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Old 2012-03-17, 04:30   Link #26220
ZeroXSEED
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Nope, no such thing.

What I meant is, normally such process included eliminating "immeasurable variables" i.e. emotion. However as the project is canceled, the babies are freed from emotion-suppressor and instead stimulated to redevelop such instinct.
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