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Old 2011-11-22, 04:31   Link #8881
demino_hellsin
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I don't explicitly mean he dies for nothing or doing nothing. Sure he does something to drive the plot, then it just backfires and everything gets reset to negative one. That's the vibe I get from him.

Throw away character? I'm not familiar with the term, because to me every character was made for a reason. I don't mean that you're just going to throw him away, but I feel like he's being pushed and pulled by circumstance only.

I did say that I lack data on Irish. Half the stuff you guys talk about is how he's going to get hurt, die, or have something backfire on him.

Disproving the equality between a named character and a mook won't negate my point. There is a difference between killing a character and a mook. The difference is that a character killed off gets a "I came back as a (clone, ghost, memory, insert whatever here)". Mooks just get replaced by more mooks, same applies for innocents. It's nice when those mooks and innocents do something that drives the story because it sets them apart from those mooks/innocents who are to follow in their deaths. Those mooks that do make a difference are somewhere between named character and unnamed mook AKA side-character.

A mook that's about to be killed by Rong won't be a pointless and controlled death. Because in writing, you only do such things to insinuate an outsider's outlook on your named character. That mook died to give the audience a look at how heartless Rong is/ died alerting others due to the struggle he put up against Rong or some other. Chance circumstance and controlled circumstance are two very different things. stuff happens, coincidence. Stuff happens to you on a daily basis that makes you wish you were dead and probably kills you in the end, controlled, something is definitely at fault. Plus if you give a mook a POV and even the tiniest bit of background that's worth sympathy, that character becomes named.

EDIT: @eratas: All I really want to say is that I feel sad that after all the bad stuff and a little bit of good stuff that happens to Irish from what I read of your conversations and descriptions of him, the dude probably will die as per word of god. Can't really say I congratulate him

EDIT2: sorry if any offense was made.

Last edited by demino_hellsin; 2011-11-22 at 05:53.
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Old 2011-11-22, 05:29   Link #8882
Masuzu
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On a roll with the one-shot ideas here.

Thinking of an alternate universe whithout the IS or anything like that, a drama centered on Tatenashi going into compensated dating, and Ichika's team of detectives trying to find her after she goes missing.


Maybe on Saturday.
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Old 2011-11-22, 05:54   Link #8883
wavehawk
O GALILEO LET ME GO
 
 
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'compensated' dating?
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Old 2011-11-22, 05:56   Link #8884
Masuzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehawk View Post
'compensated' dating?
*Date: One night for $xx*

Not sex, otherwise I'd have simply called it prostitution.
(Although it's not like this is much different. )
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Old 2011-11-22, 05:58   Link #8885
Eratas123
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@ Box - Didn't they do one for Charlotte?

@ demino_hellsin - You specifically mentioned that he dies for nothing and lives and dies suffering in your post. I answered no to that.

The only backfiring happpens in the arc where he's an antagonist, of course things backfire for him! His actions aftewrwards are more effective since he's on the same side as the others and working alongside then rather than specifically trying to impede each others progress.

Also, the reason we're talking about him being hurt/attacked/injured is because I spent the last 200 pages planning future scenarios/missions/filler where he succeeds, has fun, has character development or has romantic moments with his partner, there has to be points where he gets hurt an suffers to offset these moments. Please don't assume I'm just plotting his demise and suffering with other authors.

Planning for bad things to happen to our characters is normal here: I've done it, Zero's done it, Ethernalrain's done it, and Detective-san's done it. Almost everyone here discusses a part where the characters in their story get hurt/die because having OC's doesn't mean we baby them. We're not going to be afraid to show our character getting hurt because that's part of their development or the story. If Rong doesn't get hurt/killed in your story, that's your choice, I'm not going to stop you.

Also, please be reminded of the Genre's we're talking about. Do you see me planning the characters from "Daydreams of Maidens in love" getting hurt? No, it's a humor story. "What lies in Shadow" is darker and has more of a cynical view compared to that. Detective-san's story is "cosmic horror" while Wavehawk's story is "film noir", they've made it pretty clear that things end up badly for their protags.

As I said before, every protag has a role in the story and if one fails, they all fail in the end. If Irish's actions keep backfiring, doesn't that mean all the other protags's actions backfire too? No, they all accomplish something major at the end at the culmination of everything.

So, let's stop arguing about this. You mentioned before that you don't want to show the scarring on wrong too much. Well, I'm not hiding the fact that Irish is unbalanced and has problems from the readers. We have similar characters, but that doesn't mean we have to write the same way.

Thanks for the arguments They made me think and they passed the time, but they're not really on topic and I don't think we should keep going lest it devolves to an insulting match(Trust me, I've stopped getting into debates because of this).
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Old 2011-11-22, 06:04   Link #8886
wavehawk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detective-san
not sex, otherwise i'd have simply called it prostitution.
(although it's not like this is much different. )
Quote:
Originally Posted by eratas123
@ box - didn't they do one for charlotte?
-

----what
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Old 2011-11-22, 06:04   Link #8887
Masuzu
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Yes, something simmilar has been done for Charlotte, only in premise ofcourse, it's not like I'd be able to live up to that one, definitely still top-story in the IS section.
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Old 2011-11-22, 06:11   Link #8888
Eratas123
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@ Hawke - Yeah, something about Enjo Kosai.

@ demino_hellsin - No offense taken. Honestly though, if you'd been here months ago you'd get tired since most of what I wrote for him is comedy/romance and not dark like what we're discussing now.

Besides, I said he'd die if he needed to. Unless something changes, I'm planning to give him a happy ending along with everyone else. Zero knows about it.
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Old 2011-11-22, 06:20   Link #8889
wavehawk
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Charu...You mean...Charu...she...

(catatonic)
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Old 2011-11-22, 06:24   Link #8890
Eratas123
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@ Hawke - Here's the title! http://m.fanfiction.net/s/6802582/1/

Go nuts and read it, it's pretty good. Char's actually a tease on poor Ichika By the way, No she wasn't having sex. According to her, most of the people she "dated" just wanted someone to listen to them about their problems or talk.

And don't get any ideas about calling her services! I made sure that she retired before I posted up that link!
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Old 2011-11-22, 06:24   Link #8891
MeisterBabylon
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*pokes General Hawke*

Well done, you broke him.
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Old 2011-11-22, 06:25   Link #8892
Eratas123
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@ Meister - How old is Karon's mom? Most of the recruits seemed very interested in her.
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Old 2011-11-22, 06:26   Link #8893
demino_hellsin
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@eratas: I think I back-tracked to those parts. If I remember right the poor kid was trapped between boobs or a knife up his backside... not much of a choice

I think I saw that enjo-kosai fic on ffnet. I do believe it was based on a doujin.
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Old 2011-11-22, 06:27   Link #8894
MeisterBabylon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
@ Meister - How old is Karon's mom? Most of the recruits seemed very interested in her.
That's... not for me to say. She's just been retconned to hell and back...
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Old 2011-11-22, 06:31   Link #8895
Eratas123
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@ demino_hellsin - How is that any different from Ichika He's trapped between boobs and IS units so his situation is even worse! At least Irish fightd back most of the time! Ichika just gets dope smacked a lot. Besides, those were mostly humorous compared to what I'm makong now.

@ Meister - I'm guessing at leat 25, judging by her position in he army.
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Old 2011-11-22, 06:33   Link #8896
Masuzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
@ Hawke - Here's the title! http://m.fanfiction.net/s/6802582/1/

Go nuts and read it, it's pretty good. Char's actually a tease on poor Ichika By the way, No she wasn't having sex. According to her, most of the people she "dated" just wanted someone to listen to them about their problems or talk.

And don't get any ideas about calling her services! I made sure that she retired before I posted up that link!
I honestly think Tatenashi should've filled Charlotte's role there.
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Old 2011-11-22, 06:38   Link #8897
Eratas123
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@ Box - Tatenashi wasn't known yet since the novel wasn't translated at that point. I agree that she really fits though

Side note - I'm including Chelsea in Daydreams. Can you tell me her personality?
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Old 2011-11-22, 06:44   Link #8898
Masuzu
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She's loyal to Cecilia, something of a motherly figure since Cecilia's well...

She has a flirty side to her, and tends to tease Cecilia, especially when it comes to Ichika.

Though I said she is flirty, she is smart, even warning Cecilia about Ichika's powers, she is apparently too strong with the force to fall for this though.
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Old 2011-11-22, 06:47   Link #8899
Eratas123
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@ Box - Then I guess she's going to go to the dark side of the force for Daydreams Imagine it: Ichika as a servant for the prestigious Alcott family, the exciting relationship between a junior and his senior! All behind the back of her host family

Side note - How old is she anyway?
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Old 2011-11-22, 06:50   Link #8900
ZeroXSEED
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Hmm, Enjo Kosai eh?

Rubs hand.

That aside, about the capabilities of Iori, only one thing about his capability is that he's the one Tabane hailed as rival scientist, actually he isn't (= All just Tabane's BS), though Tabane was right that he was the only one that could be close to her, and the rest is menial and insignificant to her.

Though so far he haven't able to replicate the cores, he was able to repair it (though the result is imperfect, it was guaranteed safe to use). He also the one designed the first I.S. frame and Module complement system, while Tabane developed the core.

So indeed he's inferior, and most of his works is always related to Tabane in some way or other and vice versa. This is due to Tabane's weakness of being easily distracted (such as diasppear to create Akatsubaki before ByakuShiki can be perfected) leaving Iori to clean the mess.

As for Chelsea, she's also patient and clever enough to deal with superdense Ichika.
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