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Old 2012-01-14, 00:48   Link #17901
ZeroXSEED
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detective-san View Post
That's the point, how is the caveman even supposed to understand the flashlight? To him it's no different from magic, by his knowledge you need fire to create a torch, and yet it glowed without any visible flame. The same goes for how the IS seems to break the laws of physics beyond belief, and yet we're still able to make weapons for it? How is that possible? Is that not like a caveman being able to advance a flashlight?
Once again I said how can cavemen advance a flashlight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Detective-san View Post
Naturally the first thing would be to advance his own knowledge first, but if a caveman does not have the capacity to do so, then the answer is simple--he simply needs to evolve beyond a caveman, then he can comprehend the flashlight.
Except the men in question already knew the concept of electricity, mainly within the usage of chemical reaction as battery and metal as conductor.

Cavemen is simply can't know that, they don't even knew the theory, how they can develop without theory?

Different case in that you gave flashlight to people in 18th century, they knew electricity, they knew metal conductivity. They just don't know to create light-bulb because they don't know they have to extract argon and neon from air, put it into a vacuum glass tube, and insert a flimsy looking electrodes.

Tabane is comparable to Thomas Alfa Edison. Only achieve it without too much effort and is much more genius, and much more dangerous and uncontrollable.

The hype about I.S. technology is disturbing, really.
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Old 2012-01-14, 00:51   Link #17902
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@ Senpai - Do bullets pass through a person or lodge into their skin?

@ Demi - Here it is:
Quote:
Somehow, it seems yesterday's matter was even bigger than I had imagined.

The group [Ruined Country Weaving Industry] - [Phantom Task] had started operating over 50 years ago. According to rumors scattered in the electronic network, the organization was born during the second big war or something.

They're not affiliated with any country, don't possess any ideology, nor religious faith, and also have no specific race. Therefore, their objective is unclear. Their reason to exist is uncertain, and their scale is also unknown. Just like a ghost kind of organization, is what Laura told me.

The only thing known is that the organization is mainly divided into two parts(?), the Board of directors who manage the organization and decide the policy, and the Operational Squad which is filled with specialists.

And in recent years, their primary target have been ISes.
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Old 2012-01-14, 00:55   Link #17903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
@ Senpai - Do bullets pass through a person or lodge into their skin?
Some bullet do pass (called overpenetration), various bullet are precisely designed to lodge into the flesh and cause massive damage internally.

EDIT: That monologue is delivered in the middle of a food porn? Tch.
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Old 2012-01-14, 00:55   Link #17904
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@eras: What I can glean off that is the group is divided into those "who want something" and whose "who want to wreck shit". The former always changes so I can assume(not safely) that this is what "deciding policy" means. The latter basically just follow orders, so long as they get to wreck stuff. Targetting IS in recent years makes me think Tabane somehow got into the former group.
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Old 2012-01-14, 00:58   Link #17905
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@ Demi - Tabane only cares about Ichika, Houki (and her parents), and Chifuyu. She doesn't care about anyone else and she wouldn't join PT.

@ Senpai - If someone's arm breaks, would their be bleeding seen on the outside?
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Old 2012-01-14, 01:01   Link #17906
demino_hellsin
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@eras: Exactly, she doesn't care. A pawn is a pawn, why waste resources if you can get someone else to do things for you? Tabane seems the type to think so. She doesn't join Phantom Task but more like stays in a mutually beneficial pseudo alliance.
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Old 2012-01-14, 01:03   Link #17907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
@ Demi - Tabane only cares about Ichika, Houki (and her parents), and Chifuyu. She doesn't care about anyone else and she wouldn't join PT.
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
@eras: Exactly, she doesn't care. A pawn is a pawn, why waste resources if you can get someone else to do things for you? Tabane seems the type to think so. She doesn't join Phantom Task but more like stays in a mutually beneficial pseudo alliance.
While this makes sense, we still have to wait for confirmation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
@ Senpai - If someone's arm breaks, would their be bleeding seen on the outside?
Depend on the fracture level and location. Some could be subtle as thin internal bleeding, some could have the bones sticking out and tars the flesh and skin and cause a massive bleeding.
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Old 2012-01-14, 01:03   Link #17908
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You're forgetting the fact that they attacked Ichika. Any agreement after that would be dossolved immediately.

@ Senpai - So it only bleeds if the bone passes tje skin?

Side note - It was also in the middle of discussing Ichika's birthday.
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Old 2012-01-14, 01:05   Link #17909
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@eratas: Well there's that O.o Then again those kinds of operatives are difficult to control. But your point has been made.
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Old 2012-01-14, 01:06   Link #17910
Masuzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED View Post
Once again I said how can cavemen advance a flashlight



Except the men in question already knew the concept of electricity, mainly within the usage of chemical reaction as battery and metal as conductor.

Cavemen is simply can't know that, they don't even knew the theory, how they can develop without theory?

Different case in that you gave flashlight to people in 18th century, they knew electricity, they knew metal conductivity. They just don't know to create light-bulb because they don't know they have to extract argon and neon from air, put it into a vacuum glass tube, and insert a flimsy looking electrodes.

Tabane is comparable to Thomas Alfa Edison. Only achieve it without too much effort and is much more genius, and much more dangerous and uncontrollable.

The hype about I.S. technology is disturbing, really.
I think you're looking at what I'm saying from the wrong angle.

1. I give flashlight to caveman.
2. ???
3. Profit.

1. Tabane gives IS to the world.
2. ???
3. Profit.


You see, I use the caveman because an ordinary person given an IS would simply be able to use it, but he doesn't understand it. A caveman would definitely be able to use a flashlight, but he wouldn't be able to understand it. That's what I'm saying, a caveman being able to advance a flashlight is like an ordinary person being able to advance an IS, because the flashlight and the IS both look like impossible things, they're like magic. We see in the series that people do understand the IS, not completely, but they do. Now, a caveman having a limited understanding of flashlights sounds ridiculous, but it's not that much different.

What I'm trying to say is that people didn't obtain the IS because they advanced, they advanced because they obtained the IS.
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Old 2012-01-14, 01:08   Link #17911
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@detective: Your argument is invalid. Because what you're basically proposing is not the way advancement works. You're just taking notes off somebody else's work.

Last edited by demino_hellsin; 2012-01-14 at 01:21.
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Old 2012-01-14, 01:09   Link #17912
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@ Demi - That'd make sense if it was an out of control operative. The dialogue between her and Squall shows that it was a genuine mission and that she was supposed to kill Ichika had Tatenashi not stopped her. Tabane really wouldn't let that go and nuke their asses from orbit if she was initially aligned with them.

@ Box - Once again, we can't say that's a fact since we don't know enough of the IS world. This isn't index where the darksides and behind the scenes are shown.
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Old 2012-01-14, 01:11   Link #17913
Masuzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
@detective: Your argument is stupid. Because what you're basically proposing is not the way advancement works. You're just taking notes off somebody else's work.
I'm not sure how this is different from what I'm saying, note that I'm talking about 1 caveman, but many over the course of years trying to figure out the flashlight, naturally the caveman who eventually cracks it won't be able to take all the credit since countless other cavemen helped not to mention the person who gave them the flashlight in the first place.

I'm not stating any of this as a fact, now that I think about it I'm not sure why I'm even doing this.
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Old 2012-01-14, 01:14   Link #17914
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@ Eras

The red and swelling is still visible though.

@ Demi

That's is rude so please fix the post (even though what said can't be pulled). That aside, this is a discussion so everyone can have their argument.

However, I am in your side, if one cannot understand the principles, I.S.A. won't even exist and the advancement can't be made (they have a school and treat the science as high school curriculum). :|
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Old 2012-01-14, 01:16   Link #17915
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@ Box and Senpai - We're really looking at this too deeply. As tvtropes said, real life logic in an anime like this is moot. Here's a better question: How the eff did Tabane make the white knight and core when she had no gear, funding, or help? That's never going to be answered since it's not important to this kind of genre.

@ Senpai - So if the arms bleeding it's because the bone broke through?
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Old 2012-01-14, 01:20   Link #17916
Masuzu
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Advancement was made, that's why we have IS Academy, so in this scenario the cavemen were able to advance the flashlight and centered their education and politics around it. Then again nobody other than Tabane (flashlight giver) can make IS cores so it shows that they haven't mastered it completely, which would be the same for the cavemen not knowing how to make the light-bulbs.

If this scenario is followed then the cavemen are no longer cavemen, which is the same as the people in the Is world not being modern people, but futuristic people...at least by our own knowledge.


This topic seriously needs to be laid to rest now.
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Old 2012-01-14, 01:21   Link #17917
demino_hellsin
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@eratas: then I imagine some sort of political war within the top brass of PT. I don't know what was said exactly so I can't interpret it from my point of view.

@detective: atomic model to applying the knowledge in bonding elements and production of compounds; newtonian physics and its following concepts giving birth to atomic bombs and nuclear energy. Each theory or part of the theory is given credit to the person who proposed it.

The advancement of IS is not to the IS itself because that means they're tinkering with IS core. They are only improving the frame. The frame still uses knowledge within science of their time.
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Old 2012-01-14, 01:23   Link #17918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
@ Box and Senpai - We're really looking at this too deeply. As tvtropes said, real life logic in an anime like this is moot.
..... yes, Okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
Here's a better question: How the eff did Tabane make the white knight and core when she had no gear, funding, or help? That's never going to be answered since it's not important to this kind of genre.
Once again, yeah. it's up to Fanfic Writer apparently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
@ Senpai - So if the arms bleeding it's because the bone broke through?
Yes.

@ Demi

That's the reason I said people can make battery and conductor, not the light-bulb. Now let's close the argument because other people is disturbed.
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Old 2012-01-14, 01:24   Link #17919
Eratas123
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@ Demi - I think Squall's the boss and she said Autumn did her best on the job. There's no such thing as an enemy civil war or anything like that. This series is black and white for the most part and we shouldn't look for things that aren't there.
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Old 2012-01-14, 01:29   Link #17920
demino_hellsin
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The core already existed in her time. It was the first and people laughed at her for it. The other cores were also existing but in incomplete stages. Tabane focused all her resources in completing core 001 hence why Chifuyu said it was the core Tabane worked on the most. White knight frame was basically the original IS bulky space suit, redefined. Same parameters only using non-physical material and more on energy based matter. The weapons were added on because people always listen to the guy with the gun(or in this case, high-tech power armor).

Theories and application of energy based systems actually exist in present day. For the most part they are impractical because of the massive amounts of energy and construction requirements. Tabane answered this with the IS core's (probably) infinite source of energy. She used the last of her government funding to finish the frame and gather enough materials to set up her own lab.
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