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Old 2012-06-25, 13:33   Link #301
deadsea
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OMG, dat plot twist, so where is the real kanna? she die with the soujos?
Some pics here
Spoiler for Bad Kanna:
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Old 2012-06-25, 15:31   Link #302
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^

can't see the pics
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Old 2012-06-25, 16:31   Link #303
GoldenLand
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Originally Posted by Diveman View Post
^

can't see the pics
I can see them...
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Old 2012-06-25, 17:48   Link #304
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Originally Posted by 1337_haxor View Post
And shall we ignore Madoka's ridiculously large connection with Sagittarius and the cosmos for which reason?

At best Madoka is Sagittarius and Kazumi is not included.

Either way there is a Sagittarius character still to be revealed.
It's more fitting if Madoka was Sagittarius and Kazumi is Ophiuchus. It's not everything, but..

Sagittarius - Madoka
  • Glyph Meaning is a Bow and Arrow
  • Good-Natured
  • Sociable
  • Modest (Bonus Route in PSP Game!)
  • Element : Fire ("A fire gives light and heat, but it doesn't get depleted as others feed on its warmth.")

Ophiuchus - Kazumi
  • 13th Sign
  • Seeker of Peace and Wisdom (Trying to get the Pleaides and Yuuri stop fighting each other)
  • Attractor of good luck and jealousy (Mirai)
  • Will have a big family but will leave home at an early age (Pleaides)
  • They are very ethical and their sense of justice and the 'fight for the right' always comes through. (You can tell from various chapters.)
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Old 2012-06-25, 19:13   Link #305
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Originally Posted by Witched View Post
It's more fitting if Madoka was Sagittarius and Kazumi is Ophiuchus. It's not everything, but..

Sagittarius - Madoka
  • Glyph Meaning is a Bow and Arrow
  • Good-Natured
  • Sociable
  • Modest (Bonus Route in PSP Game!)
  • Element : Fire ("A fire gives light and heat, but it doesn't get depleted as others feed on its warmth.")

Ophiuchus - Kazumi
  • 13th Sign
  • Seeker of Peace and Wisdom (Trying to get the Pleaides and Yuuri stop fighting each other)
  • Attractor of good luck and jealousy (Mirai)
  • Will have a big family but will leave home at an early age (Pleaides)
  • They are very ethical and their sense of justice and the 'fight for the right' always comes through. (You can tell from various chapters.)
Indeed it is, Ultimate Madoka's theme is Sagitta Lumis for heaven's sake, not making her Sagittarius makes it look out of place.
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Old 2012-06-26, 12:00   Link #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_haxor View Post
And shall we ignore Madoka's ridiculously large connection with Sagittarius and the cosmos for which reason?

At best Madoka is Sagittarius and Kazumi is not included.

Either way there is a Sagittarius character still to be revealed.
Madoka isn't in the comic.

It's not like only one character can be assigned to an astrology sign, anyway.
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Old 2012-06-26, 15:42   Link #307
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Madoka isn't in the comic.

It's not like only one character can be assigned to an astrology sign, anyway.
So what?

Show who else fits the role or do you think they will introduce another character?

There have been many flashback and cameo appearances in Kazumi Magica, enough to warrant Madoka's appearance as a possibility.
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Old 2012-06-27, 14:32   Link #308
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Show who else fits the role or do you think they will introduce another character?
Kazumi herself, since she's similar to Madoka in oh so many ways that it's getting ridiculous?
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Old 2012-06-27, 17:00   Link #309
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Kazumi herself, since she's similar to Madoka in oh so many ways that it's getting ridiculous?
I don't find Madoka and Kazumi very similar, you better specify.
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Old 2012-06-28, 10:03   Link #310
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Scans are up at the "usual place". All I gotta say is: Poor Mirai !!!!!!!!
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Old 2012-06-28, 12:35   Link #311
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Scans are up at the "usual place". All I gotta say is: Poor Mirai !!!!!!!!


FUCK IT EPISODE 3!
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Old 2012-06-28, 14:42   Link #312
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Originally Posted by 1337_haxor View Post
I don't find Madoka and Kazumi very similar, you better specify.
Their personalities are quite similar, they're both rule-breaking characters, everyone is going to incredible lengths in order to keep them alive despite their immense Doomed-ness...
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Old 2012-06-28, 16:41   Link #313
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Their personalities are quite similar, they're both rule-breaking characters, everyone is going to incredible lengths in order to keep them alive despite their immense Doomed-ness...
They are both protagonists but you still didn't specify what makes their personalities similar.
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Old 2012-06-28, 17:24   Link #314
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FUCK IT EPISODE 3!
lol yeah, but in episode 3 your best friend/crush didnt eat your head. It was just some random witch.
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Old 2012-06-29, 00:58   Link #315
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I'd think that if the Madoka Magica mangas get an OVA, I'd rather see a Kazumi Magica OVA over an Oriko Magica OVA.

If anyone dares to charge Kazumi Magica for being lighter and softer than the anime, I'd have to pity their premature judgement. True, the lag time to an equivalent of Mami Tomoe getting her head eaten is longer( and indeed, there's no defining moment of that until Nico Witched out, if not at Chapter 17), but at the same time, the plot get's steadily darker, though at a more gradual pace than the anime itself.

At this point, it's darker than Madoka Magica itself. Kazumi Magica touches on the horrors only hinted at in the relatively benign environment of Madoka Magica.
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Old 2012-06-29, 04:21   Link #316
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They are both protagonists but you still didn't specify what makes their personalities similar.
They're both people who blame themselves for things outside their control, want what's the best for their friends at their own expense, have borderline martyr complexes, and are immensely gracious and compassionate people who leave huge marks on everyone around them, to the point that both of them have friends who are willing to fuck up the laws of nature for their sake.

They're basically perfect foils.
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Old 2012-06-29, 14:49   Link #317
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
They're both people who blame themselves for things outside their control, want what's the best for their friends at their own expense, have borderline martyr complexes, and are immensely gracious and compassionate people who leave huge marks on everyone around them, to the point that both of them have friends who are willing to fuck up the laws of nature for their sake.

They're basically perfect foils.
I disagree with the part of self blaming and martyr complex for Kazumi.

Michiru Kazusa was more like that but chronologically she came even before Mami so one could interpret her as the Sagittarius of the last year.

Kazumi isn't blaming herself for anything, she is trying to cope with what comes at her the best way she can and she demonstrated ax crazy bravery in many points rather than breaking down in tears. It is more like she took bombshell after bombshell and through that found her own identity.

Madoka had a martyr complex born out of her fear of being useless, she was the female Shinji seeing the world spinning around her and who did not feel able to recognize her own value outside of being a Magical Girl.

Kazumi woke up with powers and used them in what she tought was righteous, the plot kind of dropped on her head because she was living a lie penned by her friends and saw that lie being deconstructed before her eyes.

I never saw her kneeling down and cursing herlself for not being Jesus, she kind of got freaking persecuted the entire series first by Airi and later by the Pleiades themselves not to mention she ended up kidnapped a second time by a batshit insane homunculus with a god complex.

Madoka could have escaped her fate the whole series, if she said "Screw this city I will save my ass" then Homura could have simply taken her and her family away from Walpurgis and the world would have continued blissfully.

The problem came becase Madoka would never allow that and threw her life away repeated times to save people she would end up killing as Kriemhild Gretchen.

Kazumi just couldn't avoid her disgrace, the universe is angry that she is a being who defy it's laws and threw every ounce of "FUCK YOU!" against her.

No matter where she goes she will be an outcast or even a threat to human beings, she couldn't just ran away from the Pleiades and let Kaoru die for her because they were all she truly had and were hurting themselves for her.

Madoka on the other hand threw away a dream family for a gamble against the universe when nearly every magical girld died trying to prevent her from doing it.

Also, the is more meaning to Kazumi being Ophiucus and Madoka being Sagittarius.

Ophiucus is an outcast sign, it is shadowed position fits perfectly for Kazumi's exhistance as a witch. She is an element that would not be accounted for in the normal zodiac system and hence she breaks the count (Ophiucus comes before Sagittarius in the year) before Madoka assumes her role as protagonist.

Madoka as Sagittarius, in contrast to Michiru possibly being the previous one, enlarges the symbolism of passing the torch.

Kazumi as an unaccounted sign passes down Michiru's will and that of the Pleiades into the next generation of magical girls.

It also comes into fridge brilliance that since Madoka becomes Kriemhild Gretchen and destroys the world the next Zodiac cycle ends within Sagittarius position until her new universe wish allows for the next year to follow through.
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Old 2012-06-29, 18:53   Link #318
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@1337_haxor/AuraTwilight: There's this. (Fanmade Analysis!)
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Old 2012-06-30, 01:18   Link #319
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Stuff 1337 Haxor says about their respective plots.
None of this really matters because their personalities, and the resulting symbolism you're trying to enforce, is about how these characters CHOOSE TO DEAL with their circumstances and how they effect other people. In that respect, the two are similar enough that if Madoka were in Kazumi's shoes and vice versa, I have no doubt they would make most of the same decisions.

Madoka could choose her fate, but so could Kazumi. Both, however, require making choices they would never make. Free will only goes so far before you have to factor in those personality traits so ingrained into our characters that we can't defy them without ceasing to be ourselves.
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Old 2012-06-30, 21:27   Link #320
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None of this really matters because their personalities, and the resulting symbolism you're trying to enforce, is about how these characters CHOOSE TO DEAL with their circumstances and how they effect other people. In that respect, the two are similar enough that if Madoka were in Kazumi's shoes and vice versa, I have no doubt they would make most of the same decisions.

Madoka could choose her fate, but so could Kazumi. Both, however, require making choices they would never make. Free will only goes so far before you have to factor in those personality traits so ingrained into our characters that we can't defy them without ceasing to be ourselves.
I don't agree with what you say, sorry but Madoka wasn't a witch in human skin with nowhere to run to and nobody to rely on.

Madoka had a choice and her personality forced her to follow a certain path. As far as it goes she could have continued to live with her family on a rebuild city and enjoy a happy long life with possibly marriage and children.

Kazumi didn't had this choice, she was already a witch with magical powers who came into being with the purpose of filling the shoes of Michiru.

Like I said, Michiru could fill the role of Madoka by a wide margin but she is not Kazumi.

Kazumi was throw into the world under a false premise and the plot droped on her as that facade was twarted by outside parties.

Kazumi didn't make something to unsettle Airi, neither was she responsible for Kanna's wish and her clone's subsequent revenge that costed her life and those of Satomi, Saki and Mirai.

Michiru did that, she created the Pleiades and forged deep bounds with them, she was their Madoka in the sense they would go to the lenghts of defying the laws of nature to bring her back.

Kazumi is not Michiru, she is herself with her own beliefs, this is why she should not be treated in the same way as the alternate timeline Madokas were.

The heart of this series is to what measure someone can be considered human, this is heavily touched upon at several moments.

Even tough Saki loved Michiru she never saw Kazumi as a human being in her own right, she could only see Michiru in her and hence when Kazumi rejeted being Michiru she accepted to dispose of her.

Whenever Umika gave the clones Michiru's memories they lost their sanity on the moment they faced a witch, it is heavily implied that because Michiru fell into despair the clones cannot handle their exhistance as something inhuman (a mere shadow of the girl they were to have been) and rather choose to be killed than to handle Michiru's mind.

Kanna Hijiri had a similar despair event horizon than the clones, she realized she was an impersonator forced to live a life imposed on her and for that reason she decided to take revenge despite the arguably dream life she has had.

The first clue to this whole humanity and identity subtext came with Airi who impersonated Yuuri out of her own free will but was a whole different person inside.

In this context, you can separate Michiru and Kazumi as characters each representing their own sign.

===Michiru Kazusa - Former Sagittarius===

Positive Traits

• Optimistic and freedom-loving (Her belief in magical girls led eight girls to contract and she respected her grandmother's freedom to choose a natural death)
• Jovial and good-humored (To the point of laughting and using a life threatening situation to teach people happiness)
• Honest and straightforward (She was about to tell the truth about magical girls before "showing it" to the Pleiades
• Intellectual and philosophical (Studied abroad and had a deep life philosophy)

Negative Traits

• Blindly optimistic and careless (Finding out the truth about magical girls after convincing many girls to contract was her undoing)
• Irresponsible and superficial
• Tactless and restless (Loves giving a big entrance with life threatening moral lessons and has enormous determination)

Sagittarius Likes: unlimited freedom, alternative or unusual ideas (Horay for becoming a magical girl), being on the move all the time, plentiful food and drink (A running gag in the series), perfumes and beauty aids of any kind, gambling (Bet your soul), raffles and lotteries, and recreational flirting with those aforementioned people (Pleiades funtime).

Sagittarius Dislikes: disapproval of others (My God what have I done to these girls), inclined to keep in the end, being too safe, secure, or confined, administrative details (The magical girl way), and above all having their basic honesty doubted by others for any unmerited reason.

===Kazumi - Ophiuchus===

•Seeker of peace and wisdom (A witch with no memory trying to figure out her past and her place in the world, she deeply tries to avoid violence because of her)
•Attractor of good luck and jealousy (Was born into a circle of loving friends and was envied by Mirai, can be subverted somewhat that as a curse she brings bad luck to her and her friends)
•Interpreter of dreams (She witnessed numerous flashbacks not to mention witches are moving psychological deconstructions)
•One who reaches for the stars (Witches are fuel for the universe)
•Wearer of plaid (Witch in human clothing)
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