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View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Episode 4 Rating
Perfect 10 48 36.64%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 46 35.11%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 27 20.61%
7 out of 10 : Good 6 4.58%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.53%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.76%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.76%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-01-28, 22:00   Link #181
NeoEevee
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Okay.

If a TV Tropes page for this series ever gets written, remind me to put "HIGH OCTANE NIGHTMARE FUEL" under it. o_e

Buuuut, we finally have our main characters getting in on the magical girl action. And we know the red-haired girl's identity. Am I imagining things, or did anyone else hear a bit of Vita in Kyoko's voice?

Edit: Also, I'm not giving up hope of Mami coming back. Madoka still has her wish. And I am going to cling to that little hope until it is pried from my cold, dead fingers. >3<
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Old 2011-01-28, 22:00   Link #182
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Originally Posted by Funkatron View Post
True but eventually the hero inside her is going to come out if anyone else that is close to her gets lured in by a witch. Heck, I was expecting Kyubee to show up when she locked herself in that room and for her to make the decision to save her green-haired friend (name escapes me) right then and there.
It's way too early for that. The show balances things pretty well. Episode 4 showed Madoka that she could help others as a MG, but then episode 3 showed her that, on the other hand, she could just die an ungrateful death, without saving anyone. Furthermore, through Sayaka, Madoka is probably going to learn how wishes can go horrible wrong, and the new girl is probably going to show her how the game could turn a MG into a villain....

So yeah, there's a hero inside her, but it's not ready to come out yet, and the show is doing a great job in making Madoka aware that being MG doesn't necessarily mean to be a hero.
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Old 2011-01-28, 22:01   Link #183
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Anyone who thinks Kyuube's little "miracles" are going to turn out well might be well-served to read "The Monkey's Paw"...
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Old 2011-01-28, 22:04   Link #184
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Neither asked about the possibility of the wish because both of them have resolved to run away. Learning more about it would simply make them feel more guilty so they just avoid it. It's natural for people to gloss over bad things about themselves. That is, untill Sayaka's feeling for Kamijo got better of her.
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Old 2011-01-28, 22:05   Link #185
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Anyone who thinks Kyuube's little "miracles" are going to turn out well might be well-served to read "The Monkey's Paw"...
No one around here thinks Kyuube miracle will end well. Everyone here gleefully waiting for the other shoe to drop on Sayaka and squish her into a pancake or a witch.
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Old 2011-01-28, 22:14   Link #186
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Originally Posted by NeoEevee View Post
Okay.

If a TV Tropes page for this series ever gets written, remind me to put "HIGH OCTANE NIGHTMARE FUEL" under it. o_e
Someone already beat you to it!

And, yes, HONF is included!
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Old 2011-01-28, 22:15   Link #187
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Someone already beat you to it!

And, yes, HONF is included!
Nuts. Ah well. *goes to read*
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Old 2011-01-28, 22:21   Link #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Ok havn't seen both in quite a while so hopefully I havn't forgotten too much (though honestly,I've been trying to forget they exist )

In NES2 &3 the protagonist has unlimited number of wishes and wishes were "free" there was nothing to pay back.

That's definatly not the case here,you've got 1wish and it pretty much comes at the price of turning your life into hell.

So even if not told outright the reason to not make a wish,the audience knowing about the price to pay for such a wish can make a reasonable guess,that was not the case with NES2 &3.
Yay! Someone remembered it! You're right about unlimited wishes, but there was a cost in the second one. And we're still left with the "obvious wish which can resolve everything, but the protagonist never addresses it, and no one else does either" aspect. Such as wishing that witches can no longer exist in our world or something.

The girls are probably too depressed to ask much, but they should soon. And at least I hope Madoka doesn't become a female Shinji "Despair is my anti-drug!" Ikari.
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Old 2011-01-28, 22:29   Link #189
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gotta say, i never dreamt of liking magical girl show this much, glad i didnt drop this series without even watching it.

waiting for another mentar's speculations, i love reading it
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Old 2011-01-28, 23:04   Link #190
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Good episode but a little too much crying from Madoka. Hey, we all know you're gonna cave and became a magical girl. You're the star for crying out loud.

I think some people are overstating the cruelty of a magical girl's life. We really don't know much about how long they live or what limit their wishes have. Yeah, Mami died and Homura said she's seen countless (5? 10? 50? 5000?) die, but:

Mami saved at least 3 people so far:
Sayaka and Madoka when Madoka went to save Kyubey.
The woman who jumped off the building.

Homura saved at least 2:
Sayaka and Madoka after Mami died.

Sayaka saved a lot:
All the people in the warehouse and Madoka.

And we really don't know what happens if a magical girl decides to stop fighting witches. They need the Grief Seeds to replenish their energy but what if they don't use their energy? We also don't know that magical girls can be witches, only that "witches are born from curses" so I don't know where all this business about Sayaka maybe becoming a witch is coming from.
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Old 2011-01-28, 23:09   Link #191
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
No one around here thinks Kyuube miracle will end well. Everyone here gleefully waiting for the other shoe to drop on Sayaka and squish her into a pancake or a witch.
I was thinking more of how it was going to turn out for Kamijo, since it's pretty obvious by now how its going to turn out for Sayaka.
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Old 2011-01-28, 23:46   Link #192
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Its always going to be hard to show inference to people who keep saying "but they never stated it outright!". Funny thing is that forms of inference happens all the time and is accepted eg Homura clenching her fists.

From a meta view, Sayaka dying in the next ep would leave too many eps. My guess is that she bites it or goes witchy in episode 7 leaving 5 episodes to explain Homura and Madoka
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Old 2011-01-28, 23:58   Link #193
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Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
Its always going to be hard to show inference to people who keep saying "but they never stated it outright!". Funny thing is that forms of inference happens all the time and is accepted eg Homura clenching her fists.
Yeah, my inference is Madoka was crying because she missed her favorite TV show. But it's always going to be hard to convince people that this inference was correct. It's a good thing, though, that I don't have to show any evidence, and thus always claim that I'm right! After all, no one can prove that she wasn't thinking that.^^

I know some people might roll their eyes, but they just don't see the signs, man. After all, it doesn't need to be stated outright; we can infer that just fine. =)
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Old 2011-01-29, 00:05   Link #194
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surprised noone has a screeny of madoka torn apart yet
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Old 2011-01-29, 03:11   Link #195
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surprised noone has a screeny of madoka torn apart yet
heh, i was quite shocked when i view that, *wait they killed madoka that instant?*
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Old 2011-01-29, 03:18   Link #196
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Yeah, my inference is Madoka was crying because she missed her favorite TV show. But it's always going to be hard to convince people that this inference was correct. It's a good thing, though, that I don't have to show any evidence, and thus always claim that I'm right! After all, no one can prove that she wasn't thinking that.^^

I know some people might roll their eyes, but they just don't see the signs, man. After all, it doesn't need to be stated outright; we can infer that just fine. =)
Lol. .. I think we can't cut out the inference especially since that's what we do - most of the time in the forum . Its unavoidable in this type of show who is doing their best at being "gray" and muddying the characters' motivation. Since they don't speak their thoughts and we can't read their minds - all we have is inference. ^^ (though in my opinion that's 50% of the fun esp. in an anime original )

But, as always, there are good inference and bad inference just like you said "Madoka is crying because she missed her favorite TV show" is a bad inference, Since we know that Madoka had seen Mami, someone she admires get killed, it is more likely that she is crying because of this than missing her favorite TV show. Of course, Madoka crying more due to missing her TV show than Mami's death is entirely possible but that would entail Madoka having a very strange mindset or an outright psychopath which is not supported by the show.

In this line of thinking and assuming that the staff has not missed a major plothole. It is entirely possible that Mentar is right and Madoka is guilty because she is thinking of Mami's death and the possibility that the wish could bring Mami back to life. And is guilty because she finds that she can't risk the possibility of having an untimely death for a stranger no matter how admired.

Of course as someone who believes that Madoka was being set-up to wish Mami to be resurrected or something in the previous episode also finds it hard to believe that no one made a single pip about the possibility of this and not even hinted of it. I know Madoka might not want to confront the possibility right now but, no one mentioning it from the cast,,, is perhaps a plot hole but since I really like the show and enjoying it right now ... I'll trust that they have a good reason that the writer have for not mentioning it.

After some further thinking, I think I've come to some interpretation to why none of the ones on the cast made mention of Mami's resurrection wish

Sayaka
- has another wish that she wants to be fulfilled. She is shown to be one of those guys that gives everything to one task, but also has a slight case of tunnel vision. Remember she still antagonistic to Homura even when she saved them and believe that Homura is after grief seeds. Though in her defense, Homura makes this easy . But, there is no doubt in her mind about it. I believe that once she has an idea in her head it would be very hard to dislodge it. So having the idea of her wish she might not be thinking of other wishes due to tunnel vision. Besides, I agree with the poster that said she might be in denial. Remember when Madoka broached the subject to her she don't want to talk about it.
-On the off chance that she isn't having a tunnel vision or in denial and knows that it is entirely possible that Mami can be revived by her wish. She must have judged that Kamijo's recovery has a higher priority in her mind. The very first thing that she thought of when saying she doesn't have wishes that needs to be fulfilled because she is content but there are others who are worse of is Kamijo. She must have watched him a lot and saw how much he suffered from not being to play all his life. Thus, his recovery rates a lot on her. Come to think of it Sayaka must really like Kamijo a lot.
-Now, there is also the chance that Sayaka would want Madoka to know this. But, from her character she won't mention it when it might lead to Madoka being a magical girl and being in danger and get killed. She seemed to have a protector vibe for Madoka like an elder sister .

Kyubey
- hmm... the devil in disguise of a cute furry animal (WMG) .... if this is true why didn't Kyuubey mentioned this temptation to attract more mahou shoujo. Perhaps he is good after all .
- nah its more likely that Kyuubey has rules and regulation to follow like he said in episode 2. He can't make suggestions of wishes to prospective mahou shoujo... which kinda mirrors Faust when you think about it, the devil isn't all blown out bad guy but someone who has some inner code of honor or rules that they follow.

Homura
- now this easy ... why the hell would Homura suggest even in a cryptic way that Mami can be revived? She's doing everything to dissuade Madoka from being a magical girl even so far going to kill Kyuubey so that Madoka and Kyuubey won't meet , she isn't going to tell, give hints, or lead the conversation to what Madoka can possibly wish for. In fact, its more likely she'll be doing the opposite which is what she's been doing the whole episode emphasizing the dangers of being a magical girl.

Madoka
- lol .... it seemed like at the end Madoka is the only one with the motivation for Mami's revive spell wish. But, as many posters said above she seemed to be partly in denial, fearful and guilty. Madoka just saw for the first time someone die that is traumatizing and really to use an analogy if I saw someone climb a mountain and die it I would not be trying to climb the mountain in the future. In fact I'll avoid the mountain most of the time. Besides, Madoka is not going to ask Kyuubey ( at least for now) if it is possible for Mami to be revived because she subconsciously or not don't want to know the answer.If she doesn't know it is possible, then there are no wish that is important right now for her to risk her life on. She could be scared of the possibilities that she's subconsciously avoiding it. Of course if Madoka knows the possibility of Mami's revival due to her wish and is more scared for her life to risk it, she is not going to ask because she doesn't want it to be confirmed and add more guilt for herself and expose herself for the coward she believe she is.
- Its also entirely possible that Madoka isn't in her right mind right now and is completely buried in sorrow that the ramification of a wish that can grant anything even revive Mami has not occured yet.
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Old 2011-01-29, 05:40   Link #197
applejuice
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Originally Posted by night_sentinel View Post
I know Madoka might not want to confront the possibility right now but, no one mentioning it from the cast,,, is perhaps a plot hole but since I really like the show and enjoying it right now ... I'll trust that they have a good reason that the writer have for not mentioning it.
There are plenty of good reasons.

1st: Reviving Mami is a cliche. Predictable plot = FAIL.
2nd: Reviving Mami hinders the entire plot of this series. Mami's death is already significantly grave in terms of plot position, and even mentioning 'possibility' of Mami's revival with wish will actually create 'even more plot hole'.
3rd: Urobuchi wants story with NO DREAMS and NO HOPE. 'Wish of reviving Mami' is HOPE. Thus, it is better left unsaid in order to achieve his ultimate goal through this entire series.

Which is preferable; inevitable plot-hole or ruining entire mood of the story?
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Old 2011-01-29, 05:48   Link #198
ac195
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You'd agree that this is a deconstruction of the MG genre, right? Then what makes you think anything is going to go exactly as you predict? If, as you might believe that the very notion of this anime is going to against all preconceived notions, then by that very viewpoint alone, you can't adequately predict.

It's the nature of the human mind to see patterns in chaos, even if such patterns ultimately don't exist. I wouldn't get so caught up in yourself, that you lose sight of the fact that you could be wrong.
You seriously don't see all the hints dropped throughout the show? It still may not end up as Mentar has envisioned it yet, but I think most of us agree the show's direction is leaning toward his way of thinking.

Hell, with everything I've seen so far... the OP and ED lyrics are enough support to sell me on the idea.

Spoiler for for size:
Haha, I know my reply is off topic but I just had to stop and comment on this awesome post. It really made me smile, because this is a master-class level diplomatic right hook. Even though it didn't seem to work (continues to read the following posts) it made my day.
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Old 2011-01-29, 06:08   Link #199
guuchan
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My biggest complaint here is that neither girl asked if a wish could bring back the dead. It would seem to be an obvious thing to ask. Granted, they are both depressed, but it has to come up sooner or later. By not addressing it, it becomes a big ole elephant in the room, leaving them an out later to bring back Mami.

The big thing is, we don't know what limits there are on the wish, if any. We clearly know that it can save someone who is dying... but what if you could wish to end the system? Wish for all witches to go back to normal, and/or for witches to never be created nor exist within their world ever again? Wish that there was never a need for someone to become a magical girl?

To me, that's the biggest beef with this series, and it's what throws all this speculation into near pointlessness. As opposed to a series like Mai HiME, the idea that everyone can come back is right there in our faces.
Don't write it off just yet -- I haven't, hence my bet with Mentar is still on. I did mention in last episode's thread that I wouldn't bet on it happening right away.

However, right now I'm kind of torn between who she is going to choose to revive, since it's hinting so heavily that Sayaka will soon be the next one. Of course, the show can be giving us the wrong hints purposefully; or, Madoka can be choosing to revive every single MG who died in battles (which then of course will happen only till near the end of the show). Yes, as shocking as it sounds, it's possible. I mean, she's being hinted as the strongest possible MG, so why can't she make a big wish? Kyuubee never implied or mentioned of any limitation to the wish.

As for if resurrection itself could be wished, I don't think that's even debatable. Mami was already revived once; she was pretty much as good as dead. She did clearly imply that she would be dead if she didn't become a MG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
What was real interesting was his conversation with the new girl at the end of the episode. Especially the part where she asks Kyubey "what the hell is going on, seems like the story has changed". I don't speak Japanese, so I have to take subs at face value, but that line sure makes it seem like something is being planned/played out, and Mami's death was not part of that plan.
That's just a bad translation. She simply meant that things turned out different as what Kyuubee told her (that Mami died and there was no more MG in the city). But hm... what about Homura? Kyuubee said afterwards that the place already had a new MG, sounding like Homura wasn't counted as one or she's not supposed to be there.
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Old 2011-01-29, 06:12   Link #200
ac195
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Mami was already revived once; she was pretty much as good as dead. She did clearly imply that she would be dead if she didn't become a MG.
Unless... she only thought she was dying... now that would make Kyubey REALLY evil...
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