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Old 2011-02-18, 11:25   Link #61
venk
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Did anyone notice that kyoko and her family in the flashback live in renaissance age (14-17th century).

you can see from the architecture of the church and the city at that time.
that's definitely renaissance architecture.

that means kyoko is really old ? how old ? 200 years old ?
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Old 2011-02-18, 11:39   Link #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venk View Post
Did anyone notice that kyoko and her family in the flashback live in renaissance age (14-17th century).

you can see from the architecture of the church and the city at that time.
that's definitely renaissance architecture.

that means kyoko is really old ? how old ? 200 years old ?
i noticed it too the first time.
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Old 2011-02-18, 11:50   Link #63
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Nao was one of my favorite characters in Mai Otome, and Kyoko has a lot in common with the Nao of HiME and Otome, so I have to agree. She's a real interesting character, and would probably be much like myself in that world; fighting for myself.
???

Haven't you been saying all this time that the witches threat has to be stopped? And now you're agreeing with Kyoko fighting only for herself?

I mean, this has been our chief defense of Kyubey for a long time now.
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Old 2011-02-18, 12:27   Link #64
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Originally Posted by venk View Post
that means kyoko is really old ? how old ? 200 years old ?
Problem with the theory is she and Sayaka apparently walked from Mitakihara to the burnt out church, suggesting it's not that far away. The short distance is probably why she was first to reach Mitakihara after Mami died.
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Old 2011-02-18, 12:32   Link #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venk View Post
Did anyone notice that kyoko and her family in the flashback live in renaissance age (14-17th century).

you can see from the architecture of the church and the city at that time.
that's definitely renaissance architecture.

that means kyoko is really old ? how old ? 200 years old ?
I don't think Japan had Renaissance age stuff back in the 14-17th century. Nor even a church.
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Old 2011-02-18, 12:50   Link #66
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Originally Posted by omimon View Post
I don't think Japan had Renaissance age stuff back in the 14-17th century. Nor even a church.
Christianity was introduced in Japan around 1550.

As for the background art during Kyouko's narrative, I attribute it to artistic direction, rather than a hint about which era those events took place.
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Old 2011-02-18, 17:18   Link #67
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Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
Problem with the theory is she and Sayaka apparently walked from Mitakihara to the burnt out church, suggesting it's not that far away. The short distance is probably why she was first to reach Mitakihara after Mami died.
The distance is...an interesting thing to think about.

Kyoko apparantly spent her childhood in their; so if the place is THAT close (to the degree in which Sayaka would just walk with her to there), the town in which Madoka story occurs would be pretty much like her hometown, to an extend. But Kyoko does not fight here or guard here.

Other possiblities:

1. The anime stuff thinks that how far Kyoko's home is is unimportant. They just decided to have them walk their because that's easier to draw or something.

2. The two girls used MG power to move, and travelled much further than any other normal person would have had. Hmm.
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Old 2011-02-18, 22:44   Link #68
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I think it was all just for the sake of art.

Puppetry was big in the Renaissance era, so it was just a representation for Western Culture religion.

Hell trying to preach Christianity to Japan is bound to be hard even in today's era.

The anime really goes all out with background art. So I think we can take the church as not having a very deep meaning. No way in hell a place like that could remain in that condition for hundreds of years without collapsing.

Kyoko looks a little bit younger (when they showed her fighting) while she told the story. It seems like they can age to some extent at the very least.

Some hints that it is not taking place in the past:
1. At time 11:19 starting with Kyoko's line "My dad broke down" it shows an electric overhead light flickering. Electricity wasn't available in renaissance era
2. At time 8:51 Kyoko said "He was the type to cry reading the morning newspaper". Mass printing didn't exist yet.
3. Kyoko's outfit as well as the audience (not paper form) are much more modern era clothing.

Another important note is the Church design is very strange. The main stage is much higher up. I used to have to do a lot of traveling singing in churches as a kid and I can say that even in mega churches the preaching area is one of the lowest areas, like in a stadium for example. So I really have to think its all for the sake of art and has no real deep meaning as to how old Kyoko might be.
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Old 2011-02-18, 22:54   Link #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
???

Haven't you been saying all this time that the witches threat has to be stopped? And now you're agreeing with Kyoko fighting only for herself?

I mean, this has been our chief defense of Kyubey for a long time now.
Sorry, must have missed this. I'll clarify, because I can see how one might come to that conclusion. Mostly what I meant is I find her character type interesting, because in most shows, there are the good guys and the bad guys, which can get a bit stale. I like the ones in the middle, who do what they want, not necessarily good nor evil.

I suppose I should also clarify that I wouldn't be exactly like her. I'd still fight witches, but also familiars, too. I just wouldn't get too involved with people, like she is. That's if I was in it (I'd also be asking questions, heh). I made my contract, and thus would devote myself to the fight, and using my magic to provide for myself how I liked, such as stealing apples for food.

Part of me isn't so sure all the witches can be stopped, and odds are I wouldn't have the power to. Most MG's don't seem to want to work together, and as one person, I don't think I could handle eliminating all witches; unless I had Madoka level power, heh.
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Old 2011-02-19, 00:14   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Sorry, must have missed this. I'll clarify, because I can see how one might come to that conclusion. Mostly what I meant is I find her character type interesting, because in most shows, there are the good guys and the bad guys, which can get a bit stale. I like the ones in the middle, who do what they want, not necessarily good nor evil.

I suppose I should also clarify that I wouldn't be exactly like her. I'd still fight witches, but also familiars, too. I just wouldn't get too involved with people, like she is. That's if I was in it (I'd also be asking questions, heh). I made my contract, and thus would devote myself to the fight, and using my magic to provide for myself how I liked, such as stealing apples for food.

Part of me isn't so sure all the witches can be stopped, and odds are I wouldn't have the power to. Most MG's don't seem to want to work together, and as one person, I don't think I could handle eliminating all witches; unless I had Madoka level power, heh.
Thanks for the clarification, and no problem. I see what you mean now.

I raised the questions that I did mainly since I had the impression that you agree with Sayaka's choice of action to target both witches and familiars (a major bone of contention between her and Kyoko, of course). Glad I wasn't horribly misinterpreting you there, lol.

But like yourself, I do understand why Kyoko would want to be a bit of loner, given her situation.
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Old 2011-02-19, 01:04   Link #71
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Originally Posted by Sekirei07 View Post
I think it was all just for the sake of art.

Puppetry was big in the Renaissance era, so it was just a representation for Western Culture religion.

Hell trying to preach Christianity to Japan is bound to be hard even in today's era.

The anime really goes all out with background art. So I think we can take the church as not having a very deep meaning. No way in hell a place like that could remain in that condition for hundreds of years without collapsing.

Kyoko looks a little bit younger (when they showed her fighting) while she told the story. It seems like they can age to some extent at the very least.

Some hints that it is not taking place in the past:
1. At time 11:19 starting with Kyoko's line "My dad broke down" it shows an electric overhead light flickering. Electricity wasn't available in renaissance era
2. At time 8:51 Kyoko said "He was the type to cry reading the morning newspaper". Mass printing didn't exist yet.
3. Kyoko's outfit as well as the audience (not paper form) are much more modern era clothing.

Another important note is the Church design is very strange. The main stage is much higher up. I used to have to do a lot of traveling singing in churches as a kid and I can say that even in mega churches the preaching area is one of the lowest areas, like in a stadium for example. So I really have to think its all for the sake of art and has no real deep meaning as to how old Kyoko might be.
how about the city's architecture ?

it's very unlikely for a city to have 2 very different architecture at the same times.
one is renaissance architecture, and the other modern minimalist architecture
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Old 2011-02-19, 02:09   Link #72
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Originally Posted by venk View Post
how about the city's architecture ?

it's very unlikely for a city to have 2 very different architecture at the same times.
one is renaissance architecture, and the other modern minimalist architecture
True, but remember in the puppet interpretation of the church he preached in had the audience sitting rising from where he preached. In the actual church in real life the preaching stage is at the top. Could be there not even the same church and the one in the show was perhaps the main branch of the church. Or perhaps he visited the head church to plead his ideas as we saw. Many of Europe's cities still have architecture from that time period even today.
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Old 2011-02-19, 02:18   Link #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venk View Post
Did anyone notice that kyoko and her family in the flashback live in renaissance age (14-17th century).

you can see from the architecture of the church and the city at that time.
that's definitely renaissance architecture.

that means kyoko is really old ? how old ? 200 years old ?
I stated the possibility of Homura being old in another thread, same thing applies to kyouko now.

Also, Miki calling kyouko out for the apples was a bit of a jerk move IMO. Its nnot like kyouko has money to pay for them which is one thing, but Miki still has her family to pay for everything.
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Old 2011-02-19, 03:00   Link #74
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Originally Posted by alu546 View Post
I stated the possibility of Homura being old in another thread, same thing applies to kyouko now.

Also, Miki calling kyouko out for the apples was a bit of a jerk move IMO. Its nnot like kyouko has money to pay for them which is one thing, but Miki still has her family to pay for everything.
Question: Is it possible for magical girls to have an actual real life job? I mean, there are some jobs that teenagers can get.

It's interesting that Sayaka went to school in Episode 7, which suggests to me that fighting witches is very far from a 24/7 thing at least.
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Old 2011-02-19, 04:30   Link #75
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In America, i know you cant have a job till your like 16. For Japan, im not all that sure. But in sophisticated society, that age is about right. I could be wrong, but they appear tp be 13 and 14.
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Old 2011-02-20, 13:32   Link #76
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Ah, a question: has it been stated explicitly anywhere in the series that Kyouko actually let people die at the hands of the familiars?
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Old 2011-02-20, 13:33   Link #77
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Originally Posted by Scrooge McDuck View Post
Ah, a question: has it been stated explicitly anywhere in the series that Kyouko actually let people die at the hands of the familiars?
Not quite directly. She just stopped Sayaka from killing a familiar, and then stated that you should let them kill people so they become a witch, so you can get a grief seed. Considering her selfish nature and using her magic for herself, the logical conclusion is that she has done that before.
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Old 2011-02-20, 13:48   Link #78
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Anyway, my favourite character so far. Just love her personality for some reason.
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Old 2011-02-20, 13:51   Link #79
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She just stopped Sayaka from killing a familiar, and then stated that you should let them kill people so they become a witch, so you can get a grief seed.
Hmm. I'm only basing this on fansub translation, so pardon if my understanding is completely off base. Also, the following would be quite the speculation so pardon me for that, too.

In episode 5, Kyouko told Sayaka to let the familiar "feed on humans". Now, I think that doesn't necessarily mean that they literally gulp them down. I am under the impression that Witches and familiars' sustenance is grief and despair. Mami's description of them in episode 2 seems to support this, also. So we can assume that the Witches/familiars don't really need their victims to die. It's just that their actions cause people to be too depressed to live or too unfocused to be careful.

From this line of thought, it's entirely possible that the victims are quite healthy after an encounter with a familiar, though certainly considerably sadder. Maybe Kyouko actually saves them from falling to their death while letting the familiar get away. Maybe she chases the familiar away before things get worse. Heck, maybe familiars aren't actually strong enough to instigate a mass suicide.
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Old 2011-02-20, 14:03   Link #80
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This is true, as I'm only going off a fansub, too, which uses "kill" instead of "feed." We'd have to get someone in here who can understand Japanese to try and parse the phrase.

Could it be possible a familiar only feeds? Yes. But then, feeding might be worse than death. Torture usually is. The one Kyoko let escape, says it has the power to make humans bounce once for each lie they've told over their lifetime; on average, a human lies a LOT, so a human is going to be bouncing for a long time. Possibly in pain, but at least being trapped and bounced for a LONG time is going to drive a lot of people nuts. It doesn't specify any kind of limit as to how many humans it can have bouncing at a time.

And lastly, whether someone is tortured or killed (or dies during torture to, say, heart concerns), would mostly be up to the familiar or witch. I'd find it a bit hard to believe that no one has ever died to a familiar. Statistically speaking, there would have to be some that have died.

So, even if you don't think familiars kill on average, you're still looking at physical and mental torture, based on its powers. It's up to the reader to determine which is worse.
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