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Old 2011-11-02, 10:27   Link #1101
mrShady
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@marvelB: I doubt that, it's a zoldyck family secret I don't think they are going to spread it around. And it's not like Pariston has anything to say over them or their family. Heck I wouldn't even be suprised if he would avoid them, considering their reputation and strength. Would he even recognize them, they are still a mystery to most people.
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Old 2011-11-02, 11:14   Link #1102
margafred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrShady View Post
But the way I understand it Killua actually did die (though it also appeared to be faked) but the second request was for him to wake up and the final request was that game. Thus he completed them all. Would it not be possible for Alluka to request something and then negate that same request with the next request.
To explain:
Request 1: Die
Request 2: Wake up
In order for Killua to wake up he needs to be alive, thus the request made by Alluka made him come back to life and negates the 1st request...
He didn't die.

When Alluka pesters for something, she (yea she, no he pls) only says it without any intention at all. She doesn't have any sort of power at all, so her pesters are powerless, just a simple request that brings no harm. All her powers come from her other side, in which will only activate if
- Someone didn't do what she pesters 4 times in a row
- Someone fulfilled her pesters 3 times in a row

I think Killua already anticipates his sister's pestering to ask him to die (absurd request imo in return for granting Milluki's wish for latest and newest computer). Even if she didn't mean it, Killua still had to do it, for the sake of the rule. The implication might be greater for the next pestering if he didn't "die" from his sis's first pestering (like Kasuga's liver --> duodenum --> spine --> brain). At least acting as if he has died is easy, with his Kanmuru, better than if his sis asking for something even worst, like his brain or his spine, in which his Kanmuru will be useless.

The 2nd request that asked Killua to wake up didn't revive him at all. As i said, Alluka's request holds no power, only if the rule is fulfilled then only her power will be activated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrShady View Post
Ofcourse he could have faked it, however it didn't look like he activated god speed.

There's also the matter of this being his sibling. Alluka may be compelled to ask something horrible, but because they share a close connection the next request could be beneficial to Killua because Alluka doesn't want to see Killua hurt. This would be possible only for them, because of their love for eachother.
Like what omimon said above, as long as Alluka accepts it, then the pestering can be considered as done. That means, if Killua simply lies down, only acting like being shot when Alluka bangs him with her finger gun, i doubt Alluka will accept it as "die". Killua had to make it so real in order to give the impression to his sis that he has indeed died. And this is where the danger lies, because his sister doesn't really care what will happen to Killua, coz she only treats it as a part of a play. She doesn't know that her impression towards Killua determines Killua's fate. Its just either she is emotionless, or because of the effect of the ability that resets her emotion back to zero, as if nothing happens.

I doubt emotion plays any help to Killua. Her sister looks fine even after being confined inside the prison for years, not showing any sad feeling at all. To her, she just treats everything as a fun play, without knowing the implication behind it. Asking Killua to die is bad enough imo, okay let just say she probably anticipated that Killua could do such feat without any problem. But then that would just mean she will keep in believing that Killua is able to do just about anything, no matter how horrible it is.

The key in solving the pestering rule lies on how closest Killua can probably deceive his sister into believing that he can actually do whatever she requests for. Hiding his head inside the shirt at superhuman reaction speed is one of his feat, thanks to his Nen. But then there are even horrible ways of dying, that even his Kanmuru wouldn't be able to help. If worst comes, the last thing he could probably do would be
Spoiler for lol:
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Old 2011-11-02, 11:15   Link #1103
noktown
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From what i noticed there is no time limit on the pesterings,so could Killua just ask to cure Gon,she'd ask him to bring a star from the sky(example),so he can tell her he'll complete it later,but later can be forever.... ?
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Old 2011-11-02, 11:29   Link #1104
margafred
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^
May seem like forever, but this all depends on Alluka herself i believe. Maybe possible if she says yes and allows it, but the moment she requests for another thing, then that just implies that the previous request is incomplete/fails, because i think the request cannot overlap with each other.

But i think its a rule too that the target must admit that he/she cannot do it before the request can be considered as fail. Who knows, maybe that delaying plan will work lol.
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Old 2011-11-02, 12:44   Link #1105
marvelB
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Heh, y'know, I just realized that the confusion regarding Alluka's gender must have been why Silva referred to her as an "it" a couple chapters back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mrShady View Post
@marvelB: I doubt that, it's a zoldyck family secret I don't think they are going to spread it around. And it's not like Pariston has anything to say over them or their family. Heck I wouldn't even be suprised if he would avoid them, considering their reputation and strength. Would he even recognize them, they are still a mystery to most people.

.....Except that we just saw Illumi explaining the mechanics of her power to Hisoka, who's probably one of the least trustworthy characters in the series.



But even putting that aside, me and some others already pointed out that Pariston's sneaky and manipulative enough to obtain the information about her powers from a different source, if he so desired. Also notice what Cheadle was thinking this very chapter about how he's so willing to tackle difficult challenges that seem disadvantageous to him. If Alluka's power is such a great secret, then I'd have no doubt that he'd love to entangle himself into such an enigma if it meant he could gain absolute power.....
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Old 2011-11-02, 13:02   Link #1106
Clarste
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You also have to consider that Pariston or someone he knows has some sort of nen power that can discover "secrets". Anything is possible. Fortunetelling like Neon, Mindreading like Pakunoda, etc. I'm pretty sure the Zoldyicks and everyone else realize that it's impossible to keep a secret perfectly in this world.
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Old 2011-11-02, 13:03   Link #1107
The Small One
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I'm not really what this chapter is really about.
What use is the discussion between Hisoka and Illumi about killing Alluka? Unless this part is a flashback, there is no point in this discussion, since they won't be able to reach Killua in time anyways. Alluka is already ready for the wish.

And why is Illumi so sure, that Killua will fail? Should have more trust in his brother(s).
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Old 2011-11-02, 13:16   Link #1108
marvelB
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^Probably because Illumi is insanely protective of him. I mean, didn't he join the hunter exam early on for the exact purpose of discouraging him from becoming one (y'know, threatening to kill his friends and all that)? And not to mention putting that needle in his head that made wary of fighting (which he didn't discover until the ant storyline).....
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Old 2011-11-02, 14:23   Link #1109
mrShady
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Quote:
Originally Posted by margafred View Post
He didn't die.

When Alluka pesters for something, she (yea she, no he pls) only says it without any intention at all. She doesn't have any sort of power at all, so her pesters are powerless, just a simple request that brings no harm. All her powers come from her other side, in which will only activate if
- Someone didn't do what she pesters 4 times in a row
- Someone fulfilled her pesters 3 times in a row

I think Killua already anticipates his sister's pestering to ask him to die (absurd request imo in return for granting Milluki's wish for latest and newest computer). Even if she didn't mean it, Killua still had to do it, for the sake of the rule. The implication might be greater for the next pestering if he didn't "die" from his sis's first pestering (like Kasuga's liver --> duodenum --> spine --> brain). At least acting as if he has died is easy, with his Kanmuru, better than if his sis asking for something even worst, like his brain or his spine, in which his Kanmuru will be useless.

The 2nd request that asked Killua to wake up didn't revive him at all. As i said, Alluka's request holds no power, only if the rule is fulfilled then only her power will be activated.



Like what omimon said above, as long as Alluka accepts it, then the pestering can be considered as done. That means, if Killua simply lies down, only acting like being shot when Alluka bangs him with her finger gun, i doubt Alluka will accept it as "die". Killua had to make it so real in order to give the impression to his sis that he has indeed died. And this is where the danger lies, because his sister doesn't really care what will happen to Killua, coz she only treats it as a part of a play. She doesn't know that her impression towards Killua determines Killua's fate. Its just either she is emotionless, or because of the effect of the ability that resets her emotion back to zero, as if nothing happens.

I doubt emotion plays any help to Killua. Her sister looks fine even after being confined inside the prison for years, not showing any sad feeling at all. To her, she just treats everything as a fun play, without knowing the implication behind it. Asking Killua to die is bad enough imo, okay let just say she probably anticipated that Killua could do such feat without any problem. But then that would just mean she will keep in believing that Killua is able to do just about anything, no matter how horrible it is.

The key in solving the pestering rule lies on how closest Killua can probably deceive his sister into believing that he can actually do whatever she requests for. Hiding his head inside the shirt at superhuman reaction speed is one of his feat, thanks to his Nen. But then there are even horrible ways of dying, that even his Kanmuru wouldn't be able to help. If worst comes, the last thing he could probably do would be
Spoiler for lol:
Her request range from easy to absurd, but let's assume for a minute that the guy who was asked to give her his spine would say yes, how would she claim it and he give it? it's not like he can magically pull his spine out. Thus I assume she magically takes his spine out, the same way she instantly can kill people. But this only happens when the person agrees to the request. So when she asked Killua to die and he said yes; she killed him.
When she asked him to come back to life he did. Ofcourse he could have just as easily faked it, however because her requests can be so absurd, there is no way some can ne fulfilled, thus she has to do them because she can make crazy stuff happen.

And what I meant by them having a good relationship is that she would ask him different stuff in return because she knows him. She wouldn't treat a butler or stranger in the same way. Ofcourse with this I assume she has some form of control over her requests, they just need to fulfill a certain standard set by the nen power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Heh, y'know, I just realized that the confusion regarding Alluka's gender must have been why Silva referred to her as an "it" a couple chapters back.





.....Except that we just saw Illumi explaining the mechanics of her power to Hisoka, who's probably one of the least trustworthy characters in the series.



But even putting that aside, me and some others already pointed out that Pariston's sneaky and manipulative enough to obtain the information about her powers from a different source, if he so desired. Also notice what Cheadle was thinking this very chapter about how he's so willing to tackle difficult challenges that seem disadvantageous to him. If Alluka's power is such a great secret, then I'd have no doubt that he'd love to entangle himself into such an enigma if it meant he could gain absolute power.....
Illumi knows Hisoka, they have worked together a couple of times and Hisoka considers Illumi usefull (otherwise he would have killed him).
Illumi told him the secret because he needed the help of someone strong enough but without any affiliation or desire to tell his family. Enter Hisoka. Who has the motivation of being killed if he doesn't help to stop it.

Any way I still see no way for Pariston to know such a family secret.
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Old 2011-11-02, 18:19   Link #1110
zeniselv
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i have to say i love how the art is good again, and about the gender, im going with female afterall killua knows her best, this was a very fun chapter in all aspects.
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Old 2011-11-02, 19:05   Link #1111
margafred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrShady View Post
Her request range from easy to absurd, but let's assume for a minute that the guy who was asked to give her his spine would say yes, how would she claim it and he give it? it's not like he can magically pull his spine out. Thus I assume she magically takes his spine out, the same way she instantly can kill people. But this only happens when the person agrees to the request. So when she asked Killua to die and he said yes; she killed him.
I don't think real Alluka has that power to "forcefully" make the person do what she pesters. That would make her even more absurd, aside from what Illumi has said about her powers.

Well there's no sign of Killua being killed magically anyway. If his head really got blown up by Alluka's finger shot, then there should be blood pouring down from his neck, or at least bits of pieces from his blown head scattering on the floor (like how she "minced" her butlers). And if what you said is true, then there is no way for her to "magically" revive Killua if Killua was really dead at that moment, since Killua couldn't give his reply to her 2nd request. Lastly, she could at least make her revive process looks better if she really has the magic to do so
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Old 2011-11-02, 20:48   Link #1112
frubam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by margafred View Post
I doubt emotion plays any help to Killua. Her sister looks fine even after being confined inside the prison for years, not showing any sad feeling at all. To her, she just treats everything as a fun play, without knowing the implication behind it. Asking Killua to die is bad enough imo, okay let just say she probably anticipated that Killua could do such feat without any problem. But then that would just mean she will keep in believing that Killua is able to do just about anything, no matter how horrible it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrShady View Post
Her request range from easy to absurd, but let's assume for a minute that the guy who was asked to give her his spine would say yes, how would she claim it and he give it? it's not like he can magically pull his spine out. Thus I assume she magically takes his spine out, the same way she instantly can kill people. But this only happens when the person agrees to the request. So when she asked Killua to die and he said yes; she killed him.
When she asked him to come back to life he did. Ofcourse he could have just as easily faked it, however because her requests can be so absurd, there is no way some can ne fulfilled, thus she has to do them because she can make crazy stuff happen.

And what I meant by them having a good relationship is that she would ask him different stuff in return because she knows him. She wouldn't treat a butler or stranger in the same way. Ofcourse with this I assume she has some form of control over her requests, they just need to fulfill a certain standard set by the nen power.
I can't really see how he died when it showed him popping his head back out of his shirt. I actually think it's a combination of the your[margafred/mrShady] ideas: the real Alluka has no power whatsoever, and her pesterings can't be forcibly invoked upon a person(Killua in this case), but her other persona, which is probably Nen-induced, possibly can and does. I don't think Alluka's intention was to actually 'kill' Killua, as she said 'wake up' to him afterwards, not 'come back to life'. This pretty much infers that she wanted him to 'play dead', not 'die'.

I don't feel she's emotionless either. I mean, she was happy to be smothered in Killua's scent after all . I think that she is just a happy person who pesters; almost as if it's some kind of mental disease. She doesn't think about being locked up in a vault away from everyone. Her other persona, however, might be that emotionless being you describe, but certainly not her 'true' self.

To note about the 5 brothers thing; I wonder if the Zoldycks simply want to have all their children be men instead of women for some reason? I mean, that could be the reason Mil/Ill call her him(in accordance to some kind of family rules) while Killua calls her 'her' and fits in with the whole 'going against the family creed' business he has.

Last edited by frubam; 2011-11-02 at 21:01.
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Old 2011-11-02, 22:04   Link #1113
vansonbee
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Can anyone list the oldest to youngest in the family?
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Old 2011-11-02, 22:08   Link #1114
Clarste
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Pretty sure it's Illumi, Milluki, Killua, Alluka, Kalluto.

You can tell by the names, actually. The last syllable of the older brother becomes the first syllable of the younger one. With a "llu" in the middle of course.
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Old 2011-11-03, 00:57   Link #1115
The Small One
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I wonder if it is even necessary to fulfil the wishes.
Maybe the answer "yes" is already enough.
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Old 2011-11-03, 01:08   Link #1116
james0246
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While I certainly enjoy the riddles, and I appreciate that Togashi is getting his creative juices flowing, I am still unclear how this storyline actually works in the main plot (which is centered around the Zodiac currently). Sure, everyone may die (unlikely), but the actual story of healing Gon could have been handled in any dozen of different ways (all of which did not require the invention of a near godlike character that can grant wishes) whereas the plot featuring the Zodiac and the Hunter's seems far more natural to the overall narrative and plot progression. Here's hoping Togashi can combine the 2 storylines a bit better than the somewhat silly "they all might die" scenario currently tangentially connecting the stories...
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Old 2011-11-03, 01:18   Link #1117
Kokukirin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
While I certainly enjoy the riddles, and I appreciate that Togashi is getting his creative juices flowing, I am still unclear how this storyline actually works in the main plot (which is centered around the Zodiac currently). Sure, everyone may die (unlikely), but the actual story of healing Gon could have been handled in any dozen of different ways (all of which did not require the invention of a near godlike character that can grant wishes) whereas the plot featuring the Zodiac and the Hunter's seems far more natural to the overall narrative and plot progression. Here's hoping Togashi can combine the 2 storylines a bit better than the somewhat silly "they all might die" scenario currently tangentially connecting the stories...
I don't see the election as the main storyline at all. For one, everyone heavily involved in the election is a new character, except for Ging who apparently does not care too much either. It is more of a side event that is shaping the world in the future. No doubt this will develop into something more interesting than an election, but for now it is not making progress at all.

The real focus is on Killua and Alluka right now.
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Old 2011-11-03, 01:19   Link #1118
t3ck
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So, why does Killua want to bear the pestering for recovering Gon?
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Old 2011-11-03, 02:11   Link #1119
Kokukirin
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That's just what Illumi thinks will happen. But Killua apparently knows more about Alluka than Illumi. Things may not go as Illumi thinks.
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Old 2011-11-03, 05:31   Link #1120
Gooral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeniselv View Post
i have to say i love how the art is good again, and about the gender, im going with female afterall killua knows her best, this was a very fun chapter in all aspects.
Yeah, he definitely knows better than his mother who couldn't tell apart a boy from girl, just like Goku, lol. Let's be serious here. Alluka is definitely male if both Illumi and SIlva say so, Killua treats her as sister since she acts like a girl, simple as that.

As for the chapter, it was great, especially interaction between Hisoka and Illumi. Still I can't believe that Illumi had revealed to him he has at home a genie that could make his wishes come true. A bit risky if you ask me, especially taking into account Hisoka's desire to fight the strongest opponents no matter what. It seems they're rather good friends and trust each other to a degree.

I wasn't as much interested in voting since Parriston was in the center but it was also good. Anyway, 10/10 chapter for me.
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