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Old 2011-11-14, 10:04   Link #161
Marcus H.
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Good luck to noitaminA. The path of 12:45~ will be hard for a timeslot that aimed to be original.
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Old 2011-11-14, 10:14   Link #162
fertygo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Good luck to noitaminA. The path of 12:45~ will be hard for a timeslot that aimed to be original.
Its already been a years since they moved to that airing time you know.
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Old 2011-11-14, 10:24   Link #163
cyth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Maybe I'm getting old and cynical, but which business isn't about profit?
I fully expected this type of response, and maybe I'm naive (no, I'm pretty sure I am), but the consumer, the fan, if you will, likes to think that there's genuine love involved in producing entertainment. I will only blame Yamamoto P in this case, as he's been one heartless mofo during this switch. I like GAINAX, Yamakan and all other reckless, but filled with emotion creators who try their damnest to make something great a lot better than some guy whose sole mission it is to turn a profit the next fiscal year.

And one other thing, MAYBE I'M NAIVE TO THINK THAT ORIGINAL CARTOONS CAN BE ENJOYED BY GENERAL AUDIENCES AS WELL, but honestly, why didn't Noitamina try to produce original content for general audiences? Doesn't anyone have the balls to do anything risky these days? At any rate, it just shows how much confidence Yamamoto had in the Noitamina "brand."
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Old 2011-11-14, 10:39   Link #164
fanty
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Weren't Bakeneko and Mononoke anime-original? I thought those sold quite well...
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Old 2011-11-14, 11:31   Link #165
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyth View Post
I fully expected this type of response, and maybe I'm naive (no, I'm pretty sure I am), but the consumer, the fan, if you will, likes to think that there's genuine love involved in producing entertainment. I will only blame Yamamoto P in this case, as he's been one heartless mofo during this switch.
I may not work in the entertainment industry, but I do work in media, and it never gets easier to accept layman accusations against so-called heartless "suits". If it were really just about the moolah, them heartless monkeys-in-suits would work in a bank or an energy company, and not in entertainment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyth View Post
And one other thing, MAYBE I'M NAIVE TO THINK THAT ORIGINAL CARTOONS CAN BE ENJOYED BY GENERAL AUDIENCES AS WELL, but honestly, why didn't Noitamina try to produce original content for general audiences? Doesn't anyone have the balls to do anything risky these days? At any rate, it just shows how much confidence Yamamoto had in the Noitamina "brand."
Every creative attempt is risky, whether or not it's an "original" or an adaptation. There is never any accounting for taste, and you can never tell in advance whether your project is going to be a hit or a flop.

That said, while I wouldn't be so quick to blame Yamamoto for his apparent "lack" of passion, I wouldn't be as quick to defend him for diluting the brand. With shows like Fractale and Guilty Crown in the stable, I don't even know what the slot is supposed to be about any more, other than anime as usual.

In any case, the problem as I see it is not just about noitaminA but also about anime in general. The industry just isn't "growing up" sufficiently with fans who are growing older and more discerning, and remains stuck with a niche (but high-paying) audience. The "creatives" are as much to blame for this as the heartless executives, I feel. But artists will always do what they do best, which is to create whatever they feel like creating, be it banal or brilliant. Try telling them to do something "different" for the sake of the industry. I don't think you'd get very far.
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Old 2011-11-14, 11:33   Link #166
SeijiSensei
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Yes, at least that was true for Mononoke, which sold about 12,000 units. Eden of the East was also an anime-original, as was [C]. However I suspect the non-otaku market is all but gone for noitaminA now since they've chosen to follow the same path as 90% of all anime producers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyth View Post
I fully expected this type of response, and maybe I'm naive (no, I'm pretty sure I am), but the consumer, the fan, if you will, likes to think that there's genuine love involved in producing entertainment.
The animators and writers might love the material they are producing, but they're not the ones calling the shots. That's the job of the "production committee," which usually includes publishers, music executives, toy and game manufacturers, and the like. Their job is to make money for their respective enterprises; they're likely not driven by a desire to carry on some artistic quest.
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Old 2011-11-14, 14:13   Link #167
Katapan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Good luck to noitaminA. The path of 12:45~ will be hard for a timeslot that aimed to be original.
What path of 12:45~? noitaminA has had the 12:45 timeslot since Jyu Oh Sei, which dates back to 2006. The three previous shows (HachiKuro, ParaKiss & Ayakashi) started at 12:35 which is hardly different - fantastic ratings were achieved on this timeslot with Moyashimon and Nodame Cantabile anyway.

Really, this point seems completely irrelevant - the only thing that changed is the fact that the block now goes on for an hour and it may sometimes bring down the general ratings, but detailed ratings for C & AnoHana have shown that it is hardly the case.
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Old 2011-11-14, 14:16   Link #168
TJR
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Yamamoto is one of the most respected producers in the business, so I wouldn't be so quick to pin him as a heartless, money-grubbing suit. He took tons of risks (misguided or not) in the past, from the helming of the Noise slot to the production of experimental, creator focused projects, such as The Tatami Galaxy and The House of Five Leaves. In terms of overall quality, noitaminA/Noise had a great batting average, which can only be attributed to the passion of the slot's producers.

However, you can only keep shooting in the dark for so long until the realities of business catch up to you. With changes in sponsorship (which have made their business much riskier and dependent on home video) upsetting whatever plans they may have had in the past, there's a need to adapt.

Quote:
but still, Noitamina didn't suddenly realize the power of anime originals, they were forced into this situation, and I doubt they particularly like it.
This attitude toward original work is shared by most of the industry, not just noitaminA producers. Additional risk is one concern. However, there's also a perception that

a) anime directors and scriptwriters are generally honed to adapt existing stories, so the chances of a good original work are slimmer than with other forms of media (in short, industry talents aren't hired on the basis of how well they envision new stories. We've already seen plenty of respected directors and scriptwriters flub anime original stories/arcs)

b) the companies involved with anime are not good at marketing their own work. They're structured to serve the publishing industry, which remains the driving force behind anime production
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Old 2011-11-14, 15:10   Link #169
ZODDGUTS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyth View Post
Read this link, everyone: http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-5241.html


The cause for this switch was mainly two-fold. First of, there hasn't been many popular manga or novels recently that would attract general audiences (the oversaturation of the light novel market is mentioned as well). The solution they saw was to make anime originals (holy fuck, Japan, why didn't I think of that).



/thread
What a miss of a opportunity. Looks like they won't adapt March Comes in Like a Lion and Saint Oniisan, both popular with the general audience. The two series would have made a great combo in the line up.
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Old 2011-11-14, 16:07   Link #170
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJR View Post
a) anime directors and scriptwriters are generally honed to adapt existing stories, so the chances of a good original work are slimmer than with other forms of media (in short, industry talents aren't hired on the basis of how well they envision new stories. We've already seen plenty of respected directors and scriptwriters flub anime original stories/arcs)

b) the companies involved with anime are not good at marketing their own work. They're structured to serve the publishing industry, which remains the driving force behind anime production
Interesting points, but on what do you base those observations, particularly the first one?

I've suspected before that the committee approach is both an enabler and an obstacle in anime production. I can imagine the model working very well when it comes to established franchises with obvious potential for merchandising (hence the cosy ties between the publishing and broadcast media, along with the toys and games companies). By the same token, I can easily imagine the relative lack of interest in original productions with no obvious strategy for monetisation.

Are there media organisations in Japan that specialise in funding or collating independent productions for wider distribution? Because, as far as I understand, that is how media content is produced and distributed internationally. If such infrastructure is lacking in Japan's anime industry, small wonder then that projects like noitaminA have difficulties with "original" anime. You'd basically have to be a big independent studio like Ghibli to pull off such productions.
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Old 2011-11-14, 17:26   Link #171
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJR View Post
This attitude toward original work is shared by most of the industry, not just noitaminA producers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Interesting points, but on what do you base those observations, particularly the first one?
wao once posted an interview with Mitsuo Iso about the difficulties he faced getting someone to produce Dennou Coil. (It took him about seven years.) The interview gives an insider's view of the problems creators have when trying to pitch anime-original projects. For instance:

Quote:
Iso says that original works are not particularly welcomed or commended by the anime industry, which was originally created to animate manga in the first place. Like when everyone gets together to make an original anime but it doesn't sell... he ventures that perhaps this industry is not suited for making original projects.
He goes on to talk about the aversion to letting creators direct their own projects as well.

(I miss wao; she was such an enthusiastic and informative AS member.)
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Old 2011-11-14, 17:31   Link #172
fertygo
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The amount of original anime is increasing heavily since last year or two though.
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Old 2011-11-14, 17:35   Link #173
SeijiSensei
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Care to provide us with a short list? The only anime-original show I've watched in 2011 is Madoka.
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Old 2011-11-14, 17:43   Link #174
Stealther
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Original works:

http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl...&catid.275=600
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Old 2011-11-14, 17:56   Link #175
fertygo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Care to provide us with a short list? The only anime-original show I've watched in 2011 is Madoka.
Well...

Tiger&Bunny, Madoka, Blood-C n Penguin Drums comes to mind and few more title incl.

And noitaminA itself already releasing 4 original show this year plus the upcoming Black Rock Shooter in Winter... that season too have at least adding 2-3 new original anime aside BRS.
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Old 2011-11-14, 19:19   Link #176
Marcus H.
Hunk o' Burning Love
 
 
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@fertygo and katapan: Consider me mistaken. You know I'm not the kind to look too much into programming timeslots.

Well, now that I've become curious about it, I found out that I haven't picked up a single series until BRS' announcement in noitaminA. I dunno, shows from noi don't really pique my interest from the get-go.
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Old 2011-11-14, 21:09   Link #177
Kirarakim
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Penguindrum, Tiger & Bunny, and Madoka were 3 great originals. They were all risks but they all paid off.

Well okay Penguindrum sold just okay, but T&B and Madoka were big hits. But they are also all good shows with thought & heart put behind them.
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Old 2011-11-15, 00:45   Link #178
kuroishinigami
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T&B issunrise series, which mean they have a little more leeway since sunrise is experienced in producing original series and they have a main flagship franchise to depend on even if they fail with the experiment. Madoka is a little bit of a surprise, and penguindrum isn't that profitable like you mention.

It's funny though how everyone seems to forget about sunrise's flop called sacred seven right after their t&b success lol.
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Old 2011-11-15, 01:14   Link #179
Tempester
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Shouldn't the fact that Kuragehime and Usagi Drop were much more popular than Fractale, [C], and No. 6 be a sign to the executives that there is still a 'non-otaku' (I don't like that word, to be honest) audience for the time slot?
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Old 2011-11-15, 01:30   Link #180
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZODDGUTS View Post
What a miss of a opportunity. Looks like they won't adapt March Comes in Like a Lion and Saint Oniisan, both popular with the general audience. The two series would have made a great combo in the line up.
Why complain? Unless you wanted the anime series for both of them to be just 11 episodes.... Chihayafuru is as noitaminA as a show can be this season but thank fuck it's not airing in that slot. Otherwise instead of 25 episodes of it we'll get 11 episodes (and even if it was 2 cour it would still be 22) and that's it. It would be Kuragehime all over again....
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