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Old 2012-01-25, 13:28   Link #2001
leokiko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim1167 View Post
Um...that also describes Fam. Maybe not a "dark past" but what of her family past that has been hinted at?



Why does Fam have to be punished? Yes she's idealistic, but she definitely lives in a less than idealistic world. Yet she still manages to smile and prosper. She's a survivor. I like that. Yes, she's impulsive and does whatever she wants...mainly helping people while even knowing that it will put her in harm's way. Nothing wrong with that.

Almost everything Dio has done has pretty much gone his way also. Should he be punished too?
You are forgetting what happened to Dio in the original LE. He WON'T have character development on this anime, since it won't be about the previous characters but instead, Fam and co. And Dio isn't a idealistic, he obviously have something he stand up for and he realizes the reality of what's around him. Not RECKLESS, like Fam.

And about Fam, we will just have to agree to disagree. I don't like her idealistic nature, and the way the she is. She's a boring character.
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Old 2012-01-25, 13:58   Link #2002
Joachim1167
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Originally Posted by leokiko View Post
You are forgetting what happened to Dio in the original LE. He WON'T have character development on this anime, since it won't be about the previous characters but instead, Fam and co. And Dio isn't a idealistic, he obviously have something he stand up for and he realizes the reality of what's around him. Not RECKLESS, like Fam.

And about Fam, we will just have to agree to disagree. I don't like her idealistic nature, and the way the she is. She's a boring character.
REALLY? Dio is not RECKLESS? I think Claus, Lavie, Lucciola and Millia would disagree with you.

Maybe that's part of the problem. We already know Dio's story so we empathize more with him and tend to give him a pass. Fam's story is still unfolding. I'll still give my girl the benefit of the doubt.

Yes, we'll agree to disagree. Maybe by the end of the series some opinions may change (including my own).
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Old 2012-01-25, 14:11   Link #2003
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Haha, well...that's true, he still is a bit reckless xD.
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Old 2012-01-25, 14:13   Link #2004
Graveyard Duck
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Originally Posted by Joachim1167 View Post
I think that the title also refers to Luscinia, as he's starting to do things that are alienating his supporters - mainly Sadri and Vasant.
There are some interesting details that give bases for speculating whether Luscinia is aware that Sadri and Vasant could turn against him and whether he has taken any precautions. With Vasant, it's fairly obvious: She is from Chaos and may hold loyalties to her people rather than to Ades. It would be odd if he didn't take any precautions against her. With Sadri, the basis is not as obvious, but the compositions of the first four fleets suggest that he might not be held with as much trust as the other generals.

Let's briefly examine the old Ades battleship:
Spoiler for Ades Old Battleship:

It's distinguished by two large claudia engines protruding from the sides, a two section bow with an assortment of cannons between the upper and lower sections, and a rudder in the back. This is the same type of battleship that the provincial fleets used in the attack on Glacies, and it's the same as the old type battleships that Fam stole, except the old types have towers.

Compare this to a modern Ades battleship:
Spoiler for Ades Modern Battleship:

The obvious differences are as follows:
1. The modern ship has a bulky enclosed space in its main section rather than exposed claudia engines.
2. It has two sets of air rakes rotating on the sides.
3. It has a single connected bow with no weapons rather than two sections.

Now let's look at the Anshar, the flagship of the first fleet:
Spoiler for Anshar:

The Anshar has an enclosed space with air rakes like a modern Ades ship, but it has a divided bow section like the old Ades battleship rather than the unified bow section of a modern Ades battleship.

Take a look at the first fleet as it engages the Sylvius in episode 8:
Spoiler for First Fleet:

The main section of the first fleet consists of the Anshar and a number of modern Ades battleships. However, the first fleet also has a few detachments that consists of old Ades battleships. It's shouldn't be surprising for a fleet to have both modern and older ships. However, compare to the third and fourth fleets under Orang and Sorush

Spoiler for Third and Fourth Fleets:

These fleets seem to consist entirely of modern Ades battleships, though it's possible that we just haven't seen their older detachments. They are also the fleets that were outfitted with the new anti-vanship flak systems, though it's possible that Ades didn't want to spend too much on outfitting their ships with a system that only worked well on Glacies vanships. However, it may still be significant that they are the most modern fleets in the Ades armada--better equipped than the first fleet, which has old Ades battleships and a flagship that retains some older design characteristics.

Combine this with the attitudes of the generals. When Luscinia asked the provincial fleets to lead the vanguard, Sadri gave him the evil eye--the basis on which some speculate he would turn against Luscinia if Ades were to split. The other generals didn't appear to react at the meeting. It is unlikely that they didn't know the implications of sending the provincial fleets as the vanguard--both Orang and Sorush's cry of "avenge the provincial fleets!" were suspicious: Orang in his usual stone face, Sorush with a bizarrely inappropriate smile, both coming too quickly considering how many lives and ships were lost when the vanguard was annihilated. It seems more likely that they were well-informed and agree to the ploy to get rid of the provincial fleet.

So we have two generals--Orang and Sorush--who appear to support Luscinia's policy as well as his apparent plan to implement it. They command the most modern fleets. We have one general--Sadri--who appears to dislike Luscinia's policy. He commands a less modern fleet. We don't know what Vasant's fifth fleet composition is like, but I speculate that it's like the first fleet based on the fact that its flagship the Anaitis has the same design as the Anshar.
Spoiler for Anaitis, Fifth Fleet Flagship:


It seems plausible that Luscinia is aware of the possibility that Sadri and Vasant could turn against him. Thus, he gave them weaker ships to command so that his more loyal generals can win if a civil war or coup should occur within Ades. We would thus see another underdog faction should two of the five generals turn against Luscinia.

I'm not sure what to predict for Kayvan. His second fleet doesn't have as many toys as the third and fourth fleets, but it appears to consist wholly of modern Ades battleships.
Spoiler for Second Fleet:

He was present when Luscinia briefed his generals at the start of episode 13, but it was probably necessary for him to be there because he was one of the three commanders in the assault. We don't see his reaction to the destruction of the provincial fleets, so we don't know how much he personally supports Luscinia. At this junction, I would only put Orang and Sorush on Luscinia's side should Ades have a civil war or a coup.
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Old 2012-01-25, 14:40   Link #2005
Joachim1167
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@Graveyard Duck

Good post.

I do think all of the generals would turn on Luscinia if he openly moves against Sara.

On a related note:

We know that Vasant is Chaos nobility, but could she also be Chaos' Exile key? I notice on conceptual drawings that her headgear centerpiece has the same design as Delphine's ring in S1 and does have slight "nobility" elven ears. She is the only non-Ades general of the bunch. I wonder if Luscinia had something to do with her promotion to keep her close till he finds the correct Mysterion passages.
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Old 2012-01-25, 17:24   Link #2006
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Okay new here but I need to get this semi-crackpot theory about Fam's origins out of my system.

So in the Grand Race episode we saw the remergence of the question of what Fam's obviously-important-to-be-reveiled-origin, and its probable importance e.g. she's another key to exile (which actually gets some back backing in 13 when after seeing Liliana have her "disturbance in the Force" moment after Glacies unleash their exile, we cut immediately to Fam dropping something...).

But my theory is from another angle because in the Grand Race episode I noticed something, Fam isn't the only person looking longingly at an item related to someone she lost.

Spoiler for other person:


That's rights I'm arguing that Sadri is somehow related to Fam. How do I guess well look at the locket picture he's holding.

Spoiler for locket picture:


See the resemblance to Fam? I'm betting she is our protagonists mother. And we may have seen her before. Going back to episode 3 where we flashback to Atamora finding Fam at a crashsite.

Spoiler for Fam's dead mother?:


And now my final piece evidence look at their eyes, Sadri and Fam have the same green eyes.

That's all I got; love to hear some other opinions.
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Old 2012-01-25, 18:12   Link #2007
MeoTwister5
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We can't see them since the pictures don't come out.
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Old 2012-01-25, 18:13   Link #2008
Myssa Rei
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The theory that Fam is Sadri's granddaughter is relatively new, only coming around just around episode 10 or so, but it does kind of fit the theory from way at the start of the series that she's nobility of some sort (remember Giselle's joke that "You're the last one I'd expect to be a princess") and, judging from the engraving on the medal found with her, likely connected to the Guild to boot. If Sadri was from one of the countries Ades had annexed, during the reign of the previous Augusta perhaps or older, then maybe we could go someplace with this theory, but as it is we haven't seen anything from the old man's side yet.

I don't think that Fam herself is a Key though, as she missing the obvious markers. Eye colors aside (which both she and Sadri share mind), she doesn't have the elven ears that we've seen on both Alvis (where they seem to have become prominent at 13 years) and the princesses of Turan.

Encia: All good and well, but like MeoTwister5 I can't actually SEE those pictures (office blocking I suppose), so I can't really comment onthem.
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Last edited by Myssa Rei; 2012-01-26 at 04:07.
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Old 2012-01-25, 20:47   Link #2009
encia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
The theory that Fam is Sadri's granddaughter is relatively new, only coming around just around episode 10 or so, but it does kind of fit the theory from way at the start of the series that she's nobility of some sort (remember Giselle's joke that "You're the last one I'd expect to be a princess") and, judging from the engraving on the medal found with her, likely connected to the Guild to boot. If Sadri was from one of the countries Ades had annexed, during the reign of the previous Augusta perhaps or older, then maybe we could go someplace with this theory, but as it is we haven't seen anything from the old man's side yet.

I don't think that Fam herself is a Key though, as she missing the obvious markers. Eye colors aside (which both she and Sadri share mind), she doesn't have the elven ears that we've seen on both Alvis (where they seem to have become prominent at 13 years) and the princesses of Turan.
Spoiler for Fam's mother?:

Last edited by encia; 2012-01-25 at 21:08.
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Old 2012-01-25, 21:28   Link #2010
Joachim1167
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Definitely a FAMily resemblance there.

If true, I imagine future family gatherings would be a hoot...

Fam: "I still remember that time during the Great War when Millia and I took out Grandfather's flagship with a single shot from a glorified flaregun!"
Sadri: "grumble...grumble...grumble"

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Old 2012-01-25, 22:03   Link #2011
Graveyard Duck
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
I don't think that Fam herself is a Key though, as she missing the obvious markers. Eye colors aside (which both she and Sadri share mind), she doesn't have the elven ears that we've seen on both Alvis (where they seem to have become prominent at 13 years) and the princesses of Turan.
It's hard to say just how many of the common Guild traits a guildsman must have. Al was consistently depicted with normal ears in LE1, though she did gain pointy ears in LE2. Euris Bassianus had brown hair and brown eyes, though we didn't see her ears. It's hard to dismiss the possibility of Fam being Guild-descended, though we have yet no reason to believe she is.
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Old 2012-01-25, 22:21   Link #2012
Cosmic Eagle
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I wonder if Exiles have any other weaponry besides oversized grappling hooks....

Otherwise the coming Glacies vs Turan Exile battle will be like horizontal UFO-catcher...
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Old 2012-01-25, 22:28   Link #2013
MeggieMay
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I finally managed to get "Bad Move" watched today. First, I have to say I like Fam. While I agree with the camp that says she's not had as much character development as many of the other new characters, I don't find her unrealistic or particularly boring. Now this is a issue that is a "to each their own" type of thing but there really are people like Fam in our world. Super optimistic and often in denial of the things going on around them. Fam's main "sin," if it really is that, is she is a character type that isn't that common in the 20teens and/or post 20th Century Western media. Fam's character feels to me like she is out of a young adult novel from the turn of the 19th/20th century and seeing that this show has a loose connection to that real life earth era, in tone and look, the shows writers going with this time of character isn't really that out of place. That said, if found Fam's comment about the Grand Race in this episode actually making sense. She didn't say that as if everything was still peach keen but as someone who realizes, at least on some level, that what she wants really can't happen again. It has never been about the "race" part, IMO, with Fam. What Fam wants is everyone to live happily together like they were on that day, before Farahnaz was killed. IMO what Fam is doing at this point is fighting with herself out loud. I think she knows what she is wanting has slipped away from her but she can't quite allow herself to accept reality and move on. She's in denial at this point.

Which is, at least to me, a character trait. Fam is an extremely young for her age - 16 year old. She's chronologically the oldest of the girls but she has never acted it through out the series. From the early episode where she drew the Silvius as a literal Monster ship, to the episode before this where she expressed that she though the Glacians were cannibals - right down to mimicking them eating people, Fam is showing herself to be quite young and naive. Still, she does realize things are going really wrong around her. I think that is why she dropped the item in the scene right before the end (when both Giselle and her were trying to pack up supplies to get going). She knows one one level what is going on and how bad it is. She simply hasn't been able to, so far, express that in a more adult manner which both Millia and Giselle have done (Fam also may have reacted to the Exile being activated as well - that's something we'll have to see how it pans out or not, though).

So why is Fam so young for her age? It may just be a trope the writers are using but it is interesting that Dio and some of the other younger Guild people we've seen over the years, have similar delayed emotional development. Even Alivs and Augusta Sara (who seems to have some Guild blood) seems young for their age. So does Fam have some Guild blood? I think it's possible. If she's related to Sadri, then he does seem to have Guild ears and I think the ears are the more important clue here. I think the eye color issue is over stated. While we've not seen Guild males with other eye colors in this show, I seem to remember seeing at least one female Guild member in Last Exile, toward the end of the series, who didn't have blue eyes (I think they were green or grey). This character was nameless and was running with other Delphine supporters but did have a brief line of dialog. Anyway, my feeling is the pointed elf ears are the real clue to here to full Guild blooded people. Yet we don't know how fast the ears might disappear on non full blooded Guild people. The eyes we may know about - Euris's eyes (Euris Bassianus was half Guild) weren't blue, for what it's worth (but I can't find a picture with her ears showing anywhere). We also don't know if the old men from Glacia's have pointed ears. Dian looks to have them but the males are all wearing hats.

So is Fam a Exile key? Well at this point I'm thinking she's not but I am tossing around a crack theory in my head about Fam maybe being a Key to something, though not to a Exile ship. Nothing much to back that up right now, though. However, I realized after watching "Bad Move" that we don't see a "Key" actually used by the Glacias. While they recite mysteria we didn't get any light show that we've seen with Alivs or Lillia. Maybe the Exile tech really does have other uses which go along with the mysteria's? The wildly different tech levels in this show are really raising questions as to whether there is a larger underlying mystery going on here about what went wrong with the Exile program to begin with. That is, I don't think everyone was suppose to come back at different times and end up in this situation (the original series back information also alluded to this). Living as late 19th/early 20th century people on the Presters to make things easier makes sense but I would think the eventual idea would have been for everyone to come back at once and reclaim their tech, even if it was only the Guild members and that doesn't seem to be what happened at all. Something has gone wrong here.

Anyway, the episode was good though not as good as the week before. I want to see what the Antoray people are up to, just because they've been gone for almost two weeks
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Old 2012-01-25, 22:51   Link #2014
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Well at least we know that Fam's decedents are the third returnees group since the other four Exiles have yet to return. Why is Fam holding a medal like that? We still don't know yet.

For Sadri being Fam Grandfather, that doesn't sound too far fetch. Even if that is true, then no way would Fam be the key to Exile at all since only the oldest relative can possess it. However, that doesn't quite make sense since I don't really know exactly how Exile's keys are pass on. What confuses me is how was the key to Exile was pass on to Liliana when her father was still alive?
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Old 2012-01-25, 23:00   Link #2015
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julio C View Post
What confuses me is how was the key to Exile was pass on to Liliana when her father was still alive?
Dio made it patently clear that the role of the Key was passed down through the female members of the family, from mother to daughter, and sister to sister. As the oldest daughter, Liliana was the Key, but if she dies, the role will pass to Millia.
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Old 2012-01-26, 01:17   Link #2016
Julio C
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Dio made it patently clear that the role of the Key was passed down through the female members of the family, from mother to daughter, and sister to sister. As the oldest daughter, Liliana was the Key, but if she dies, the role will pass to Millia.
Well I don't have access to the episodes right now, so I didn't remember properly.
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Old 2012-01-26, 01:31   Link #2017
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Originally Posted by encia View Post
Spoiler for Fam's mother?:
Spoiler:


Spoiler for Long Quote:


Totally agree with these thoughts on Fam's character.

Also definitely looking forward to the return of Anatoray and the Silvius crew.

Spoiler:

Last edited by DangerMouse; 2012-01-26 at 02:24.
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Old 2012-01-26, 04:51   Link #2018
encia
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Originally Posted by Joachim1167 View Post
Definitely a FAMily resemblance there.

If true, I imagine future family gatherings would be a hoot...

Fam: "I still remember that time during the Great War when Millia and I took out Grandfather's flagship with a single shot from a glorified flaregun!"
Sadri: "grumble...grumble...grumble"

SW ESB scene with Last Exile Fam....

Sadri: No, I am your Grandfather.

Fam: No... that's not true! That's impossible.

Sadri: Search your feelings; you know it to be true.

Fam: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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Old 2012-01-26, 08:41   Link #2019
Joachim1167
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Sadri: ...and Millia, Lilliana, Fritz, Dian, Primula, Sara, Guzel, Johann, and those Notos twins you met last week are your...ehem...cousins.

Fam: What?!

Sorush: Damn, Old Man! You were getting some serious action back in the day.

Orang: Well, this is a Japanese production...

Fam: *groan* Kill me now...

Dio: *looks at Fam, grinning*...Happy, Happy...

Fam: *facepalm*
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Old 2012-01-26, 12:55   Link #2020
DangerMouse
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Originally Posted by encia View Post
SW ESB scene with Last Exile Fam....

Sadri: No, I am your Grandfather.

Fam: No... that's not true! That's impossible.

Sadri: Search your feelings; you know it to be true.

Fam: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim1167 View Post
Sadri: ...and Millia, Lilliana, Fritz, Dian, Primula, Sara, Guzel, Johann, and those Notos twins you met last week are your...ehem...cousins.

Fam: What?!

Sorush: Damn, Old Man! You were getting some serious action back in the day.

Orang: Well, this is a Japanese production...

Fam: *groan* Kill me now...

Dio: *looks at Fam, grinning*...Happy, Happy...

Fam: *facepalm*
Haha, LOL.
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