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Old 2012-02-01, 09:37   Link #2121
azarhal
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
But he's a Guilder himself....
He and Alauda call Guilder "White Descend" (Dio) and the Guild tech "White Legacy" (presence ship, Glacies's Exile). Alaunda use a vanships that have half the look of a Starfish and that's it.

Whatever Luscinia his, he's not a Guilder as we know them, especially when the branching manga (Travelers of the Hourglass) shows an Earth Guild ~2 year ago with the appropriate knowledge and technology.

Last edited by azarhal; 2012-02-01 at 10:11.
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Old 2012-02-01, 10:14   Link #2122
Joachim1167
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Originally Posted by azarhal View Post
He and Alauda call Guilder "White Descend" (Dio) and the Guild tech "White Legacy" (presence ship, Glacies's Exile). Alaunda use a vanships that half the look of a Starfish and that's it.

Whatever Luscinia his, he's not a Guilder as we know them, especially when the branching manga (Travelers of the Hourglass) shows an Earth Guild ~2 year ago with the appropriate knowledge and technology.
Also...

Lukia, during his Rampage of Revenge (tm) at the Grand Race fiasco, took a shot at Alauda (who was wearing a Guild uniform, as was Lukia). The writers might be hinting at something there. Also, remember the scene with Alauda at the Guild outpost with all those dead Guilders everywhere?

Last edited by Joachim1167; 2012-02-01 at 11:48.
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Old 2012-02-01, 12:57   Link #2123
azarhal
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Originally Posted by Joachim1167 View Post
Also...

Lukia, during his Rampage of Revenge (tm) at the Grand Race fiasco, took a shot at Alauda (who was wearing a Guild uniform, as was Lukia).
Lets add more...

All the Ades Exterminators wear grey uniform and use red weapons as opposed to white and blue that Guilders usually use. In the flashback, the twins had red weapons, but white uniforms. Why change? The only thing suggesting Guild involvement with Ades is Dio calling the late Empress Maestro when fighting Alauda in the Silvius. Which is a bit strange in itself.

Jumping to another subject. There is one thing that is puzzling me in episode 14. The episode seems to suggest that the Ades General believe Glacians assassinated the Empress:
- Orang was talking about justice in his discussion of Glacies destruction,
- Sadri/Luscinia discussion saying it took them 10 years to get there.

But there is that thing beyond Glacies that Luscinia want that Sadri didn't know about which is pretty convenient to say the least. Could the Grand Race have been staged from the start to manipulate everybody so invading Glacies would be easier?

Just look at what Luscinia did:
- Destroy Turan using a fake Peace Treaty talk to catch them unguarded and steal the Turan's Exile. Turan were moderates, Luscinia killed all the moderate in the Federation a few weeks later using Millia's pamphlet as an excuses.
- Make alliances with neighboring countries (making them provinces) so their fleets can be sacrificed against Glacies.
- Attack Glacies last, when nobody can help them.
- Get what ever lies over Glacies.
- Profits!
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Old 2012-02-01, 13:37   Link #2124
Jokun
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Originally Posted by azarhal View Post

Jumping to another subject. There is one thing that is puzzling me in episode 14. The episode seems to suggest that the Ades General believe Glacians assassinated the Empress:
- Orang was talking about justice in his discussion of Glacies destruction,
- Sadri/Luscinia discussion saying it took them 10 years to get there.
Orang could be referring to the losses of Ades servicemen who fought through the years, after the Empress' assassination, in their attempt of conquering/annexing the Glacies. Same thing with Sadri and Luscinia's discussion: none of their forces/ships had ever penetrated beyond Glacies' borders until episode 14, no thanks to the tenacity of the (now defunct) Winged Witches.
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Old 2012-02-01, 14:53   Link #2125
Laevatein
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The issues with Ades seem to mirror the ones with the Huckebein in Nanoha Force - it gets frustrating when the bad guys win all the time. I know the bad guys have to win some in order to be seen as a threat (I'm looking at you, Suite Precure), but there's a sweet spot between that and being frustratingly invincible. At least this series doesn't combine unstoppable bad guys with the sadism of Force, which resulted in me giving up on the series.
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Old 2012-02-01, 14:54   Link #2126
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The more episodes go by, the more I'm expecting a big 180 on Luscinia, and I'm pretty certain he'll end up in TV Tropes' "Well Intentioned Extremist" category. No arguing that he'll go to any end to get what he wants, up to and including mass slaughter, but if he was so happy about it, why would he be making use of the previous Augusta's bracelet, the one she counted sins with, during every battle? It doesn't click. Likewise, when talking to that last noble standing (well okay more like slouching), Luscinia's still going on about the Augusta's wish, even though he has no reason to pretend anymore and just massacred everyone in the room. Whatever it is he's doing, he really thinks it needs to be done, and he doesn't seem to be in it for the evulz and giggles. Liliana going along with the plan (even though it's probably just to shield Millia) tends to point in that direction too, as does looking back on Sadri's behavior now that we know he's the one who mentored and/or got Luscinia through the ranks after the Grand Race fiasco.

(Which begs the question: where in hell was Alauda back then? )

In any case, if the Grand Race was a front from the start, Luscinia wasn't in on it. Or if he was hand him a trophy for best acting out there, because he went from the traditional Guildie lineface and being mocked over failing emotion forever to cracking skulls barehanded and spearing people at random while screaming and crying - until Alauda volunteered his shoulder to stop the rampage, at which point Luscinia just plain broke. He might be using it as an excuse now (though once again the bracelet would tend to disprove that), but he was too busy not having a clue back then.

There's definitely something iffy going on with the Guild(s?), though. This "Descendants / Remains of the White" thing, Luscinia and Alauda's general behavior, and of course the intro to episode 7... For an alleged Guilder, somebody sure seems to have a Guild-related grudge the size of several literal fleets of warships. Now if only Gonzo would show us why. Or hey, how Dio got back to the group, while I'm Guildie-wishful-thinking. Or what happened to our Prester's Guild survivors, especially since Dio of all people is their technical Maestro. But I'm pretty much asking for a miracle on that one, unless the manga decides to go there.

Also hi first post sorry for barging in out of nowhere.
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Old 2012-02-01, 17:52   Link #2127
Joachim1167
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Originally Posted by azarhal View Post
But there is that thing beyond Glacies that Luscinia want that Sadri didn't know about which is pretty convenient to say the least. Could the Grand Race have been staged from the start to manipulate everybody so invading Glacies would be easier?

Just look at what Luscinia did:
- Destroy Turan using a fake Peace Treaty talk to catch them unguarded and steal the Turan's Exile. Turan were moderates, Luscinia killed all the moderate in the Federation a few weeks later using Millia's pamphlet as an excuses.
- Make alliances with neighboring countries (making them provinces) so their fleets can be sacrificed against Glacies.
- Attack Glacies last, when nobody can help them.
- Get what ever lies over Glacies.
- Profits!
I don't think the Grand Race was staged. That would mean a FEDERATION conspiracy to assassinate Farahnāz Augusta. I don't think Luscinia was up to his shenanigans at that point in time. Then again, your speculations could be right. This show has had a few "WTF I didn't see THAT coming" moments.

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Originally Posted by Jokun View Post
Orang could be referring to the losses of Ades servicemen who fought through the years, after the Empress' assassination, in their attempt of conquering/annexing the Glacies. Same thing with Sadri and Luscinia's discussion: none of their forces/ships had ever penetrated beyond Glacies' borders until episode 14, no thanks to the tenacity of the (now defunct) Winged Witches.
I'm more inclined to believe this line of thought. I think if Glacies was behind the assassination, the Federation could have easily united the other nations with them in a war against Glacies. Farahnāz Augusta seemed to be well respected by the other nations at the time of the Grand Race. Why assassinate her and risk war with the rest of the world? Her killing was an act by a few individuals, not a national conspiracy.

On a side note. Is it just me or does Dian look really smoking hot in her flight suit?

Last edited by Joachim1167; 2012-02-01 at 18:33.
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Old 2012-02-01, 18:52   Link #2128
DangerMouse
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Originally Posted by Laevatein View Post
The issues with Ades seem to mirror the ones with the Huckebein in Nanoha Force - it gets frustrating when the bad guys win all the time. I know the bad guys have to win some in order to be seen as a threat (I'm looking at you, Suite Precure), but there's a sweet spot between that and being frustratingly invincible. At least this series doesn't combine unstoppable bad guys with the sadism of Force, which resulted in me giving up on the series.
But ironically they really haven't won all the time which also got its share of nitpicking about how could they be losing any battles they should be so powerful, to me they've won and lost and at the moment they are on a short winning streak in the last two conflicts at the mid-season (Turan's almost alliance with Anatoray short-circuited with Liliana's return and Glacies), (and as you also pointed out with me, a later victory will be sweeter for it), it's just that quite appropriately they've ultimately had the biggest couple of victories so far since they are on the offensive actively invading other nations and their losses have mostly been on the fleet level since they have the largest military with multiple large fleets and they are the strongest world power and no nations have yet been able to ally themselves with each other against them or do so fast enough yet (plus they have Luscinia and Alauda and their Guild knowledge and Alauda's assassins to enhance their chances, just as they did against Turan by knowing to go after Liliana and their Exile), I mean I remember some talking and complaining about how they suffered losses of several of the earlier battles during the battle with the pirates (before they got Turan's Exile - ep1), and the battle with Silvius and Sadri's battle with Glacies which both tied together as losses, illustrating when they were losing some skirmishes there were some complaining Ades were losing despite it specifically being against powers that specialized in vanships and smaller combat vehicles, the next evolution of combat, despite being such a world power that makes massive battleships that they should somehow automatically be able to handle vanships and that their ships should be automatically designed to be protected from all weaknesses against vanships despite vanships and smaller craft as armed fighters like Glacies' fighters being a new form of combat that Ades had clearly not been fully prepared for and not designed their ships designs and defenses against since they either didn't see it coming or underestimated the value of this new form of combat in favor of their battleship strategy (as evidenced by their need to develop new weapons over a long period of time that they finally rolled out with a test against the pirates and then finally just last ep for real).

Last edited by DangerMouse; 2012-02-01 at 22:52.
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Old 2012-02-01, 23:34   Link #2129
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azarhal View Post
He and Alauda call Guilder "White Descend" (Dio) and the Guild tech "White Legacy" (presence ship, Glacies's Exile). Alaunda use a vanships that have half the look of a Starfish and that's it.

Whatever Luscinia his, he's not a Guilder as we know them, especially when the branching manga (Travelers of the Hourglass) shows an Earth Guild ~2 year ago with the appropriate knowledge and technology.
Even then, he and Alauda are at least Guild affiliated....otherwise why would the main site describe them as being from the sky Guild?
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Old 2012-02-02, 00:21   Link #2130
MeggieMay
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I think Luscinia and Alauda were part of a real Guild at some point. They seem to have created their own Guild/anti Guild after Augusta Farahnaz died. Now just why the two "twins" were acting as Farahnaz's body guards still haven't been explained. She may have been their Maestro but then again, maybe not. I will say that one theory that could be put forth here is that one of the Guild was behind the Farahnaz's death, or that at least Luscinia thinks they were. It could be a case that Luscinia can't fathom regular people getting that close to Farahnaz without Guild help (or at least not intervening in stopping her death - as others have pointed out they had just two Guild guards with her? If she was Maestro that does seem rather questionable) that could be where his thought process is coming from.

Now, after finally watching the episode I have to say I think Sadri does know what Luscinia is after up North. The reaction on his face seem to me to indicate he does know what it is and he was shocked. I also wondered what it was they were wanting up North 10 years ago but didn't think that Glacias was who they thought killed Farahnaz. After some thought I now wonder if maybe Farahnaz set the Grand Race up as a way to diplomatically get Glacias to open up and let them go get what they want without them having to annex the country. Remember Dian mentioned that after what happened at the Grand Race they'd never trust anyone again. I thought that was a weird comment at the time because there was nothing to really lose trust over due to Farahnaz being killed - at least on the face of it. They didn't kill her as others pointed out. The assassins seemed to be from already annexed countries. It's possible that Ades put the blame on Glacias for that but we've never heard any of the third parties from the time (Turan, Sky Pirates, or the former nobles at the race) mentioned anything like that. I'd think we'd have heard some cussing out of Glacias if so but other than Fam thinking they were cannibals we haven't (Fam seemed seriously uninformed and that was probably due to Glacias not being very open with others about themselves). I'm not sure what is going on but it is all a bit strange (the show really needs to start telling us more on this subject). Still, I think Sadri may know what is going on because he's old enough to have been fairly high up in the court of Farahnaz.

Also, with Sadri, I was also left wondering just who he truly is loyal to. Yeah, he seems much closer to Luscinia than I was thinking he was but he also ended his discussion with him by hailing the Augusta. That didn't seem like fake loyalty to her so I have to wonder if his top loyalty is to her and if so, what is he going to do if Augusta Sarah turns on Luscinia? Actually Sadri's loyalty could be to the old Augusta but I'm not sure he's going to want to hurt her daughter either. An then there is the reconnaissance of Antoray. Sadri says they are weak but they have a fully working Exile and that doesn't worry Luscinia? What is going on with that? Did Sadri not see it? Actually did Alauda not mention Dio and Alvis did as well? Dio kicked Alauda's rear end - I would think that might worry Alauda a bit because he seems to be the stronger of the "twins," so I have to wonder if Alauda didn't tell Luscina that part or just what is going on.

Anyway, this is giving me a headache so I'm just going to stop here on the subject, for now
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Old 2012-02-02, 11:20   Link #2131
Cosmic Eagle
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Glacies could have lost trust simply because what was supposed to be an event that would bring in a new age of openess got screwed up big time leading to the present mess.

They thus decide everyone other than them was therefore untrustworthy.
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Old 2012-02-02, 21:15   Link #2132
Julio C
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Also, with Sadri, I was also left wondering just who he truly is loyal to. Yeah, he seems much closer to Luscinia than I was thinking he was but he also ended his discussion with him by hailing the Augusta. That didn't seem like fake loyalty to her so I have to wonder if his top loyalty is to her and if so, what is he going to do if Augusta Sarah turns on Luscinia? Actually Sadri's loyalty could be to the old Augusta but I'm not sure he's going to want to hurt her daughter either. An then there is the reconnaissance of Antoray. Sadri says they are weak but they have a fully working Exile and that doesn't worry Luscinia? What is going on with that? Did Sadri not see it? Actually did Alauda not mention Dio and Alvis did as well? Dio kicked Alauda's rear end - I would think that might worry Alauda a bit because he seems to be the stronger of the "twins," so I have to wonder if Alauda didn't tell Luscina that part or just what is going on.

To answer some of you questions, I'm pretty sure that Sadri hasn't seen Anatoray's Exile and he doesn't know how big of a threat Anatoray is since no one has seen their fleets yet as they are still on their way. The way the discussion went with Lusicinia, Sadri only mentioned the Silvius as their only stronghold which indicate what I just said.

Luscinia and Alauda may be the only ones that know about Anatoray's Exile. However, I'm starting to feel that Alauda may actually hide certain things from Luscinia since he is more tied to the whole Guild culture. Remember the scene where Alauda found dead Guildsmen? What about the whole chasing Alvis thing? I never seen any indication that Luscinia gave the orders to do those things or is aware of it. He must be hiding something from him.
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Old 2012-02-03, 01:34   Link #2133
Guido
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Either is too late to call or Luscinias' course of actions in this series can I no longer call them based on misguided way of thinking.

Overkill was to use an Exile to blow Turan off the map, and overkill came again in the Glacies campaign with the Federation sustaining heavy casualtie.s. Yet, Luscinia looked like he didn't worry for his side losing people as pawns save for the objective of conquering Glacies, which he did by requesting Liliana's help with another Exile.

Moreover, Vasant is far concerned because all those atrocities committed by Ades during the war have been for the sake of Augusta, or that's how Luscinia excuses his actions. And, Sara Augusta's image is getting irrevocably tainted and tarnished by what Luscinia is doing conquering nations to unify the whole of Earth in the name of "peace".
It was a matter of time before the Anti-Luscinia faction finally burst into the stage, because Luscinia can no longer be allowed to free rein with his actions.

And, Vasant knew better than one what was for losing everything and everyone, and she's gathering allies from around the world to help at contributing with the cause of defeating Luscinia.

Looking to the other side of the things with Millia and Fam, the match race was intended to Milia from Fam to get her smile, and to remind her that they all want to do is to fly and see everyone smiling; a free sky to fly anywhere and meet lots of people with smiling faces.

Fam cares greatly for Millia, and her heart was breaking helplessly because she was fearing Millia will lose herself to the war and would be doing regretful things later; Millia's initial resolution to fight against her elder sister proved Fams' fears.

The irony is that those two met at the Grand Race from ten years ago, and both chibi Fam and chibi Millia got more excited watching the race; still, neither of both have realized that they already met back then.

And, while they still cannot get in tune with each other, Millia realizes the best thing is to believe in Fam, and she regrets having thought up the possibility of killing her sister to end the war; she doesn't want to lose more people she loves.
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Old 2012-02-03, 10:51   Link #2134
Jokun
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Luscinia and Alauda may be the only ones that know about Anatoray's Exile. However, I'm starting to feel that Alauda may actually hide certain things from Luscinia since he is more tied to the whole Guild culture. Remember the scene where Alauda found dead Guildsmen? What about the whole chasing Alvis thing? I never seen any indication that Luscinia gave the orders to do those things or is aware of it. He must be hiding something from him.
Here's a thought: Perhaps Alauda is the mastermind of the Empress' assassination and has been playing Luscinia and the rest for fools and as puppets in whatever schemes he has in mind. Just think of it, getting those grudge-set assassins as close as possible to the Empress during the Grand Race wouldn't have been made possible if not with the help of an inside job.
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Old 2012-02-03, 11:59   Link #2135
FateAnomaly
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Nah the assasination succeeded because everyone is just too stupid to evacuate her.
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Old 2012-02-03, 13:35   Link #2136
azarhal
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Nah the assasination succeeded because everyone is just too stupid to evacuate her.
It succeeded, because the assassins where to stupid to target a 9 years old little girl on the stage as opposed to the Empress herself.

She put herself between a bullet and Liliana...
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Old 2012-02-03, 16:31   Link #2137
Julio C
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Sorush and Orang were suppose to be on the look out, but they weren't doing their job right especially Sorush since he was just gawking at women.
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Old 2012-02-03, 16:55   Link #2138
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Checked the RAW. Won't comment about it. Preview of 17:
Spoiler for episode 17 preview:

Last edited by leokiko; 2012-02-03 at 18:34.
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Old 2012-02-03, 17:31   Link #2139
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episode 16 wasn't that bad but I was wtf in the next episode preview
Spoiler for episode 16:
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Old 2012-02-03, 18:04   Link #2140
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episode 16 wasn't that bad but I was wtf in the next episode preview
Spoiler for episode 16:
Spoiler:

Last edited by DangerMouse; 2012-02-03 at 18:32.
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