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View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Episode 05 Rating
Perfect 10 40 33.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 40 33.33%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 28 23.33%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 6.67%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.67%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.83%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.83%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-02-03, 22:56   Link #101
totoum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I'm one of the silly ones that thinks Kyube is amoral, no more evil than a robot with a programmed subroutine
...made by an evil programmer

Sorry,couldn't resist.
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Old 2011-02-03, 22:58   Link #102
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I wouldn't raise mine. But then again, I'm one of the silly ones that thinks Kyube is amoral, no more evil than a robot with a programmed subroutine.
I think you mean immoral as you're definitely seem to leaning towards him being amoral yourself.

I can't say I trust the guy/stuffed animal or even like him but he certainly is an interesting character to watch. It will be interesting to finally find out what motivates him in the end but I doubt it'll be anything good as I don't see the writers trying to portray him in a very flattering light. They might be leading us astray but I don't really see the purpose as this series is more a subversion of MG shows than anything else so far.
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Old 2011-02-03, 22:59   Link #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
...made by an evil programmer

Sorry,couldn't resist.
Although you meant it humorously, you bring up another good point, too. Who is Kyube's boss? Most magical pets had them; some sort of figure that commanded them to go out and do something, even if the figure is gone now. Even if you think he's evil, someone might have made him that way.

Perhaps, as one theory goes, that Madoka wished this world into being and thus made Kyube... then that would mean Madoka is evil!
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Old 2011-02-03, 23:00   Link #104
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Well until I can actual see him do some remotely "evil" I'll hold my judgment a bit longer and just say he's doing what he's doing for the greater good...if there even is one.

Oh also according to the preview it would seem that Sayaka may consider the unthinkable in order the rid herself of her new rival...
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Old 2011-02-03, 23:04   Link #105
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Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
Contracting MG is his job. As long as he don't cheat to get his way, you cannot say he is evil.

Kyubei is walking a fine line but he hasn't cross it yet.
Well, it all depends on how to judge the act of contracting a new MG.

If you believe that doing so is a wonderful act of enlisting another savior of the people in the name of all that's good and holy (Stop cackling, Kyoko!), then he's merely a great and relentless recruiter with unconventional methods.

If you believe that becoming a MG is a curse and latent death sentence, he's nothing more than an evil and vicious drug dealer trying to ensnare unsuspecting little girls.

I'm obviously in the latter camp, due to observation of his methods, foreboding due to references (Faust) and seeing what being a MG is like, but a residual bit of ambiguity does remain. Even though I have to admit that I'd suggest to each pro-QB believer to seek a job as speaker for a Wall Street investment bank. ("How could we have possibly known that this financial disaster could ever strike?!")

But yea - nobody KNOWS for now. Let's wait and see.
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Old 2011-02-03, 23:06   Link #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Although you meant it humorously, you bring up another good point, too. Who is Kyube's boss? Most magical pets had them; some sort of figure that commanded them to go out and do something, even if the figure is gone now. Even if you think he's evil, someone might have made him that way.

Perhaps, as one theory goes, that Madoka wished this world into being and thus made Kyube... then that would mean Madoka is evil!
A most interesting thought. Thus, in this new world Madoka's pre-established harmony saw it fit to create a suspicious creature whose biology prevents his face from moving and the deaths and suffering of those close to her. Yeah when this thing comes full circle that'd be right up Urobuchi's alley.
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Old 2011-02-03, 23:14   Link #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
Glass half empty or half full? You said the window of opportunity is going fast, I said the window of opportunity is still open
Its still open but each episode that finishes without paving the foreshadow for it means 1 step closer to the end. Because of the way foreshadow works, it can't be done in the final episode (at least not without looking like its an adhoc decision) , so its 6 episodes left to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
Kyubei don't care, but that doesn't make him evil. I completely disagree that if Kyubei were a salesman, he would be in court.

For example, a computer salesperson probably know what is the best computer for you after 30 sec talking to you, but if you insist on buying something way more powerful than you need, he will be happy to sell that to you and I don't think the salesperson break any rule. For a salesperson to be in court he needs to blatantly die or mislead the customer. I haven't seen Kyubei doing that yet.
Actually you don't need to. You just need to neglect to mention critical facts.

I want to sell you a new computer. However the computer has faulty parts that can either electrocute you or start a fire. I don't tell you either of these facts but instead tell you its has Intel Core I7, SSD, blah blah.

Would you want to sue the salesman later after buying the computer and finding out that its a well known fact of the item (and after you survived electrocution)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
Contracting MG is his job. As long as he don't cheat to get his way, you cannot say he is evil.
Well is lying by omission cheating? If not, then i could say i own the Effiel tower and want to sell it to you. After i get your money, i give you a model of the Effiel tower. Oh sorry, i didn't mention it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
I don't see why it needs to explain why only Homura attack Kyubei. Rather, why would Kyubei attacked by other MG?
Not MGs, witches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
Warn Sayaka about what? about Kyoko? either he choose not to (kyubei=evil), or he don't care (indifferent), or he has no power to stop Kyoko (Kyubei=good).
Well he did stay around while Kyoko spied on that little violin concert there no? So he's quite fine with updating Kyoko on stuff like Homura but not so enthusatic on telling Sayaka about Kyoko?

No power to stop does not mean he can't tell her. Thats not stopping. Thats giving both sides a fair battleground

Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
Kyubei probably sense Sayaka has a burning desire to become MG. Afterall it is a MG show, if telepathy is possible, Kyubei sensing emotion is not way out of line.
Well he already said goodbye and sorry for troubling them and yet he still hangs around.

Lets say this man in a trenchcoat keeps following you and when you warn him he says goodbye forever then shows up later at your house while you're bathing.

Thats normal?
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Old 2011-02-03, 23:28   Link #108
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Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
Actually you don't need to. You just need to neglect to mention critical facts.

I want to sell you a new computer. However the computer has faulty parts that can either electrocute you or start a fire. I don't tell you either of these facts but instead tell you its has Intel Core I7, SSD, blah blah.

Would you want to sue the salesman later after buying the computer and finding out that its a well known fact of the item (and after you survived electrocution)?

Well is lying by omission cheating? If not, then i could say i own the Effiel tower and want to sell it to you. After i get your money, i give you a model of the Effiel tower. Oh sorry, i didn't mention it?
Actually..Doesn't this look a bit like what Urobuchi had done before?

"Hey everyone, I just wrote a story called Saya's Uta!It is a short story that is full with adventures, and the main story is of a romance between a young couple. As an erogame, it is also full with HCG. I have applied something new to this game as a form of new challenge. The story itself centers about 4 med school students, and a mysterious girl, Saya, who appeared at the protagonist's home out of nowhere. A young man with difficulty unknown to others, he (the protagonist) meets a wide variation of people, and finally finding an entirely new and different way of life.."

The above is all true about Saya's Uta.
Spoiler for Saya's Uta plot twist:

Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2011-02-04 at 00:36. Reason: Not everyone has played (or heard of) the game...
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Old 2011-02-03, 23:30   Link #109
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Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
For example, a computer salesperson probably know what is the best computer for you after 30 sec talking to you, but if you insist on buying something way more powerful than you need, he will be happy to sell that to you and I don't think the salesperson break any rule. For a salesperson to be in court he needs to blatantly die or mislead the customer. I haven't seen Kyubei doing that yet.
If I have solid evidence that he didn't give me the best solution, I will meet him at court and ruin his business via mass media.

BTW, I think it is more like not warning side effect of a medicine. He didn't state the contract is permanent and MGs is a life threatening business when he offers to contract to youths under 18. Just this fact alone is enough makes me think he is evil by human society's norm. OK, Kyube is not a human so he is not evil by MG mascot standard.
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Old 2011-02-03, 23:30   Link #110
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Well I'm still not sure how to judge Kyubey, though I definitely don't like him. I mean can talk about the need to recruit, but not like he warned Sayaka that someone was gunning for her. Plus taking advantage of those on death's door makes you think.

Anyways at least the guy that Sayaka wished for had one of his better episodes. Was actually not a jerk during it. Suppose his dream dying before his eyes would lead to him not being a very cheerful fellow during the first few episodes.

I'm thinking that a healing ability is probably a good thing to have with the chances of death in this series. Good wish there Sayaka . Of course will be in trouble for a while due to lack of fighting experience. If Homura really wishes for Madoka not to make a contract should probably watch Sayaka's back. Either she breaks and decides to become a MG or Sayaka dies and Madoka is emotionally broken and just falls apart. Not good either way.
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Old 2011-02-03, 23:46   Link #111
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Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
Its still open but each episode that finishes without paving the foreshadow for it means 1 step closer to the end. Because of the way foreshadow works, it can't be done in the final episode (at least not without looking like its an adhoc decision) , so its 6 episodes left to use.
I am exaggerating when I say Kyubei will be good. It will take quite a twist to make Kyubei good (but not impossible). However, it also apply to Kyubei=evil theory. But I admit that it is alot easier to write Kyubei being evil, probably half an episode will be more than enough.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
Actually you don't need to. You just need to neglect to mention critical facts.

I want to sell you a new computer. However the computer has faulty parts that can either electrocute you or start a fire. I don't tell you either of these facts but instead tell you its has Intel Core I7, SSD, blah blah.

Would you want to sue the salesman later after buying the computer and finding out that its a well known fact of the item (and after you survived electrocution)?


Well is lying by omission cheating? If not, then i could say i own the Effiel tower and want to sell it to you. After i get your money, i give you a model of the Effiel tower. Oh sorry, i didn't mention it?
Unless you can prove ALL MG live a shitty life, I don't think you can say Kyubei lying by omission. A salesperson don't need to trash his own product to avoid being in court. Kyoko looks reasonably enjoy her life as a MG. Mami is unhappy because she is alone, due to the car accident that kill her family, that Kyubei is not responsible for (if he is responsible, then Kyubei is evil, no doubt). Homura lives a shitty life because of reason we don't know. Sayaka likely to live a shitty life because she use her wish for a reason she will regret sooner or later. I still cannot fault Kyubei for their misery.

Like winning a lotto. There are plenty of stories about lotto winner live a miserable life 10 years after they win the lotto. But that is because they are stupid about their winning, lotto money itself is not at fault or evil.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
Not MGs, witches.
Witches target normal human being. They are never shown to be intelligent. What make you think they are smart enough to know targeting Kyubei is the best way to go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
Well he did stay around while Kyoko spied on that little violin concert there no? So he's quite fine with updating Kyoko on stuff like Homura but not so enthusatic on telling Sayaka about Kyoko?

No power to stop does not mean he can't tell her. Thats not stopping. Thats giving both sides a fair battleground
It is still a fair battleground now. It is not like Kyoko stab Sayaka in the back. I fail to see how Kyubei telling Sayaka about Kyoko will change how the story progress in ep 5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post

Well he already said goodbye and sorry for troubling them and yet he still hangs around.

Lets say this man in a trenchcoat keeps following you and when you warn him he says goodbye forever then shows up later at your house while you're bathing.

Thats normal?
It is only creepy if I still don't want to see the guy. If all of a sudden I want to see the guy and he shows up, I would say you can read my mind/ truly understand me and overjoyed.

I forget which anime or manga, but it is a fairly common situation that a regular girl/ guy is guarded by a ninja/ ESPer...etc and is troubled by the guard. The regular girl/ guy finally lashed out at the guard and the guard promised to leave. When the regular is alone he/she is being attacked and at the last minute the guard shows up, fight the enemy and rescue the regular. In that case the regular usually thanks the guard instead of accusing him/her a creep.
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Old 2011-02-04, 00:12   Link #112
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Q-Beh... Dang, you're so desperate, asking her to make a contract with him at every turn.
Love this guy.

Anyways, kind of surprised Sayaka (Blue one) didn't die this episode. I wonder how long it will be though...


PS: There was one scene where the highway(?) was shown and cars lined up and passed by. Now that was weird... ( -_-) Copy & paste much?
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Old 2011-02-04, 00:39   Link #113
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PS: There was one scene where the highway(?) was shown and cars lined up and passed by. Now that was weird... ( -_-) Copy & paste much?
No no no. It was symbolism/foreshadowing for Kyuube's grand JUST AS KEIKAKU that'll be coming up later. Or Shaft just ran out of money.

I'll agree with you on the QB love though. More people should appreciate his diabolic nature.
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Old 2011-02-04, 00:46   Link #114
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Some thoughts on the episode in the spoiler space below, used partly to save space in the post. It touches a lot on many fan speculations, and I'd love to know what my fellow Madoka Magica Maniacs think of my reaction to this episode.

Spoiler for Madoka Magica Episode 5 review:
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Old 2011-02-04, 01:04   Link #115
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That was an excellent episode even if I put perfect it wasn't quite, but awesome indeed. I enjoyed the fight scene and that QB thing is as creepy as ever!!!
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Old 2011-02-04, 01:11   Link #116
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Some thoughts on the episode in the spoiler space below, used partly to save space in the post. It touches a lot on many fan speculations, and I'd love to know what my fellow Madoka Magica Maniacs think of my reaction to this episode.

Spoiler for Madoka Magica Episode 5 review:
The biggest twist is no twist. WHAT A TWIST!!!
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Old 2011-02-04, 01:20   Link #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Well, it all depends on how to judge the act of contracting a new MG.

If you believe that doing so is a wonderful act of enlisting another savior of the people in the name of all that's good and holy (Stop cackling, Kyoko!), then he's merely a great and relentless recruiter with unconventional methods.

If you believe that becoming a MG is a curse and latent death sentence, he's nothing more than an evil and vicious drug dealer trying to ensnare unsuspecting little girls.
I think that you're raising two extremes here, neither of which are entirely accurate.

Let's say that your country is fighting a defensive war against a harsh, aggressive, invading force, one that is likely to be a brutal oppressor of the people of your country if you don't stop them.

Now, the odds of completely overcoming that invader are very slim, but with enough manpower on the front-lines, your nation can probably keep the invader at bay indefinitely, keeping a large number of people deep into the middle and northern portions of your country safe from the invaders. However, signing up to fight against the invaders means that there's a 90% (or even higher) chance that you will die in the war.

Now, under such circumstances, what does one make of those trying to recruit people to fight against the invading force?

Yes, they're quite literally sending people to their graves.

On the other hand, they're protecting a much larger number of people by doing so.

It's morally gray, in my opinion, and I think that it's comparable to what we see in this anime. At the very least, the recruiter has understandable motives here.

From what we know so far (this could change of course), Kyubey is a lot like this military recruiter.

I'm not necessarily pro-Kyubey, but I have my doubts that he's the villain that a lot of posters think that he is.
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Old 2011-02-04, 01:22   Link #118
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Just watched episode 5. Lots of new info revealed by Kyoko and Kyubey. Hearing Kyoko's "food chain" explanation cleared some of the questions bugging me on how MG's recharge their magic endlessly. It's cruel but it works.

Kyubey's info(or rather lack of info) about Homura was pretty interesting too. Brings up the question if there's another contractor. I bet Kyubey is raging now at how Homura appeared again just in time to stop Madoka from contracting.

Anyway I love the episode but it's pretty obvious they're cutting some budget on the animation in this one. 8/10 docked some points for the animation. Waiting for the improved dvd/blu-ray to give it a 9 or 10. :P
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Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls' souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
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Old 2011-02-04, 01:33   Link #119
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Yeah Kyoko's talk of the food chain sparked some interesting tidbits about the brutal, self-interested mentality of some (if not many) of the magical girls. I'm reminded of Kyuube's quote a couple episodes back of how "Everyone wants to get paid."

This however triggered a nagging question I've had for some time now. What do the magical girl's get out of collecting grief seeds? A recharge in magic? That's great, but incentive-wise if I was a girl putting my life on the line here I wouldn't be too thrilled about it. If anything I would have incentive to slack off. What's QB gonna do? Revoke my wish? I dare him
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Old 2011-02-04, 01:57   Link #120
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Yeah Kyoko's talk of the food chain sparked some interesting tidbits about the brutal, self-interested mentality of some (if not many) of the magical girls. I'm reminded of Kyuube's quote a couple episodes back of how "Everyone wants to get paid."

This however triggered a nagging question I've had for some time now. What do the magical girl's get out of collecting grief seeds? A recharge in magic? That's great, but incentive-wise if I was a girl putting my life on the line here I wouldn't be too thrilled about it. If anything I would have incentive to slack off. What's QB gonna do? Revoke my wish? I dare him
I don't think it's a recharge of magic but rather cleaning the bad stuff that appears when you use magic. The question now is what happens if you don't use magic at all and what happens when the soul gem is completely filled with bad stuff?
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