Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane

...the other is about managing a perpetual crisis. ^^

That's leading, whether Good or Evil.

Page Claim for leaders. Like Hayate.

[Koveras Alvane]

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

Like Hayate.

...and Blazing Flame Generals!

[FlameSparkZ]

Regarding the Eclipse infection, I just thought of this but...when someone becomes infected, it probably obliterates their Linker Core, no?

It's not like I'm pointing out a flaw in the plot, but if they find a cure for it, Thoma (and every Huck?) will most likely become a normal human.

[Arcc]

Just out of curiosity, why do you think that would be the case?

[Akiyoshi]

I tought the linker core was an etereal "organ" as important as any other physical one, thus the complete removal of it will endanger the life of the affected. Still that's just the impression i get. There's any official info about it?

[Arcc]

We know that the Book of Darkness consuming Hayate's was what was paralyzing and killing her. We also know that "harvesting" linker cores as the Wolkies did invariably resulted in the deaths of the subjects, if drained completely.

And if the bit about obliterating linker cores has something to do with anti-magic, I'm going to go smash my head against a rock.

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by Arcc

And if the bit about obliterating linker cores has something to do with anti-magic, I'm going to go smash my head against a rock.

Yes, that might be it.

The Eclipse and Divider's effect breaks magical links, and the Linker Core is a mass of concentrated magic, not to mention that the body itself has magic flowing through it...and Thoma went through a pretty high fever when the infection spread after the church incident.
That was most likely his body changing to the next stage of the infection.

[Akiyoshi]

Ok, now that will be a big trouble if the Eclipse Virus somehow "replace" the linker core completely, a full cure probably will be impossible under those condition, the Eclipse infected probably will need to remain in tratement for life in order to live as normal as possible.

[Arcc]

Okay, okay. I said I'd never explain this again at least twice, but "anti-magic" is a type of magic. The name is misleading. It's not usually a practical method of defense for mages for obvious reasons, but the eclipse are clearly an exception. Just because they cancel magic used against them and other peoples' magic defenses does not mean they are not using magic themselves.

Sorry if I seem frustrated, mate. It's been a harsh week.

[Akiyoshi]

An that arises some interestion questioning of the suppossed Eclipse Driver's magic usage. All of the Hucks NEXT design use the word "energy" rahter than "mana" or "magic" when refering to one of the Hucks special powers(in the case of Cypha it mentions that her swords can shoot "energy beams"). Thus leaving in the air the possibility of the Hucks utilizing another source of energy different from magic(like mutants i guess).

[Mirron]

I don't think I've ever heard what Nanoha uses being referred to as magic beams, or at least I wouldn't be surprised if they've been called energy beams before. But what the Eclipse people use looks to be magic in pretty much every way it can be magic. It just seems like it's magic designed to defeat magic. Might seem odd, but makes sense to me.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Mirron

I don't think I've ever heard what Nanoha uses being referred to as magic beams, or at least I wouldn't be surprised if they've been called energy beams before. But what the Eclipse people use looks to be magic in pretty much every way it can be magic. It just seems like it's magic designed to defeat magic. Might seem odd, but makes sense to me.

So, what happens if an Eclipse Driver fights another Eclipse Driver?

[Arcc]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

So, what happens if an Eclipse Driver fights another Eclipse Driver?

I think you have hit upon the crux of Thoma's involvement.

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

An that arises some interestion questioning of the suppossed Eclipse Driver's magic usage. All of the Hucks NEXT design use the word "energy" rahter than "mana" or "magic" when refering to one of the Hucks special powers(in the case of Cypha it mentions that her swords can shoot "energy beams"). Thus leaving in the air the possibility of the Hucks utilizing another source of energy different from magic(like mutants i guess).

Yes, let's not forget that before Force, StrikerS introduced a different source of energy (used by the Combat Cyborgs) that can replicate the same effects as magic.

I wouldn't be surprised if "Eclipse energy" is similar to that.

[Akiyoshi]

If it's true that they use magic and it ends also true that they can cancel magic attacks and defenses that will explain a couple of things like the "ammo" used during Tohma and Veyron's battle or the very prominent blades on the Dividers, as also why Veyron use an aditional weapon(his "Claw Grab") who use fuels to make combustion attacks(like "Napalm Fang). In case of confronting another Eclipse Driver or other source of Anti-Magic they have alternate weaponary or defensive gear to not be left completely helpless against said enemy.

[Mirron]

The effects cancel each other out so it's just the same as a mage vs. a mage? I don't know, either that or the one with the higher grade of anti-magic succeeds? I suppose we'll find out when Thoma fights one of them what happens.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by FlameSparkZ

Yes, let's not forget that before Force, StrikerS introduced a different source of energy (used by the Combat Cyborgs) that can replicate the same effects as magic.

I wouldn't be surprised if "Eclipse energy" is similar to that.

Yup, that's true, the energy used by the Cyborgs along with their Inherent Skills are completely unaffected by AMF thus cannot be considered "magic"(proven by Subaru who is able to use her cyborg powers inside the Craddle and under an AMF field powerfull enough to shut down HAYATE). My above theory can be defied if the Hucks end up being in a similar situation in relation to their powers.

Originally Posted by Mirron

The effects cancel each other out so it's just the same as a mage vs. a mage? I don't know, either that or the one with the higher grade of anti-magic succeeds? I suppose we'll find out when Thoma fights one of them what happens.

So they cancel the cancelation effect? I'm confused xDU

In regards of Tohma, the boy have a slight advantage against any Huckebein not named Curren, he's holding a book AND a Strosek reactor with him and posses an AoE attack powerfull enough that even surpasses Anti-Magic and rose slightly into Anti-Life territory(and thus being able to cancel anything from magic, to electronics, to cardiac health, to eclipse drivers). I wonder if Curren holds a similar power or have the key to survive that.

[Mirron]

Yes, so essentially neither of the anti-magic effects really work, so it's just a straight-up battle in all other accounts. That'd be what I guess happens, at least. Not like I have anything to compare it to though, just makes sense to me.

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Yup, that's true, the energy used by the Cyborgs along with their Inherent Skills are completely unaffected by AMF thus cannot be considered "magic"(proven by Subaru who is able to use her cyborg powers inside the Craddle and under an AMF field powerfull enough to shut down HAYATE). My above theory can be defied if the Hucks end up being in a similar situation in relation to their powers.

Probably, the reason why the use the AEC weapons, is because AMF doesn't work on them...could be wrong though

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

In regards of Tohma, the boy have a slight advantage against any Huckebein not named Curren, he's holding a book AND a Strosek reactor with him and posses an AoE attack powerfull enough that even surpasses Anti-Magic and rose slightly into Anti-Life territory(and thus being able to cancel anything from magic, to electronics, to cardiac health, to eclipse drivers). I wonder if Curren holds a similar power or have the key to survive that.

Yeah, Divide Zero "Eclipse"...Everyone was seriously affected by it and some even went into cardiac arrest (like Fate and Lucino), but those infected didn't.
This could be coincidence, or that those infected have some resistance against the Zero Effect.

[Akiyoshi]

Still the Hucks end up affected somewhat, they're severely weakened under the effects of it and, as Cypha points out, even their "rections" got cancelled, Veyron and Stella fainted and the rest end up in the ground. Also the menace of shooting it again was enough to nerve Fortis and scare Stella. So yheah it can be a very powerfull weapon against them(with the little inconvenience that it can provoke countless deaths if used carelessly).