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Old 2011-08-08, 00:57   Link #3281
Justin_Brett
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And then the Huckebeins gather resources and manpower, probably to attempt some sort of massive attack somewhere. >_>
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Old 2011-08-08, 01:05   Link #3282
LostSome
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You guys are so funny.
Killing is bad and stealing is worst... I think that is what you are saying.

Having to kill to survived is not something I`m calling plain evil...
Especially with the weak arguments you are making against the Hucks...
Lines with how YOU interpreted them.
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Old 2011-08-08, 01:13   Link #3283
itanshi1
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Think we need to relax and keep reading, surely the writing is good enough to keep us captivated? :/

Guess I'm boycotting this thread again. People arguing can never seem to provide entertainment, information, or insight. Just spinning wheels, beating a dead horse, and irking each other to no end. Sick Masochistic fools might stay longer than I :P I am such a fool, but I'll digress back to the pretty safe image thread.
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Old 2011-08-08, 01:15   Link #3284
Proto
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I think the whole problem is that people are using absolute scales for good and evil when there's actually several layers to the problem

Killing is good on an individual level: If it allows you to survive. The most single important thing for an individual is the individual itself.

Killing is evil on a social level: Because a society that condones its individuals killing each other doesn't last for long. Plus a society purpose is to protect its members after all.

So who's right in the end? No one. Because each one will do whatever is on their best interest.

Except for the whole the winner survives to write history and stuff.
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Old 2011-08-08, 01:16   Link #3285
Tiresias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostSome View Post
You guys are so funny.
Killing is bad and stealing is worst... I think that is what you are saying.

Having to kill to survived is not something I`m calling plain evil...
Especially with the weak arguments you are making against the Hucks...
Lines with how YOU interpreted them.
RRiiight, since the arguments in favor of the Hucks is obviously much, much stronger

So having a condition that makes you either kill or die gives you free passage to killing people whenever you pleases? Yeah, right. Think Old Yeller. No wait, on second thought, don't - I cried when the dog died. If any of the Hucks dies now, I'll laugh for a few minutes and then say "NEXT!"
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Old 2011-08-08, 01:18   Link #3286
LostSome
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Originally Posted by itanshi1 View Post
Think we need to relax and keep reading, surely the writing is good enough to keep us captivated? :/

Guess I'm boycotting this thread again. People arguing can never seem to provide entertainment, information, or insight. Just spinning wheels, beating a dead horse, and irking each other to no end. Sick Masochistic fools might stay longer than I :P I am such a fool, but I'll digress back to the pretty safe image thread.
Hahaha... Sorry, it`s my first day and I think I`ll be tired of it soon enough.
Still... A great gang here !
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Old 2011-08-08, 01:24   Link #3287
Justin_Brett
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Quote:
Lines with how YOU interpreted them.
A character relies heavily on how people interpret them, yes. What a shocking revelation.

And I can interpret what Tsuzuki meant to be Antivillains (probably) in these very nasty ways: funny, isn't it?
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Old 2011-08-08, 01:51   Link #3288
LostSome
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Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
A character relies heavily on how people interpret them, yes. What a shocking revelation.

And I can interpret what Tsuzuki meant to be Antivillains (probably) in these very nasty ways: funny, isn't it?
When did I talked about characters ?
Giving someone`s line a interpretation is what I have problems with.
You can do it, but don`t use that as fact.(Now I have no idea if you are the one I was refering to with that one.)

Was that last line, you`re way of saying I can think what I want ?
Good for you ! I`ll think what I want too.
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Old 2011-08-08, 02:15   Link #3289
Justin_Brett
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I meant you shouldn't treat someone thinking different of what a character is meant to be as some huge revelation. They wouldn't be the first characters who haven't really fulfilled their on-paper roles perfectly in people's eyes.
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Old 2011-08-08, 02:29   Link #3290
Akiyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I think the whole problem is that people are using absolute scales for good and evil when there's actually several layers to the problem

Killing is good on an individual level: If it allows you to survive. The most single important thing for an individual is the individual itself.

Killing is evil on a social level: Because a society that condones its individuals killing each other doesn't last for long. Plus a society purpose is to protect its members after all.

So who's right in the end? No one. Because each one will do whatever is on their best interest.

Except for the whole the winner survives to write history and stuff.
Yup, basically the Huckebein family are the strongest, and by FORCE logic that makes them the righteous. Justice is provided by those with the gratest power, TSAB and Section Six are not bad because of their actions, they're bad because they're weak.

Right now justice belongs to the Huckebein family.
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Last edited by Akiyoshi; 2011-08-08 at 02:52.
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Old 2011-08-08, 02:49   Link #3291
al103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I think the whole problem is that people are using absolute scales for good and evil when there's actually several layers to the problem

Killing is good on an individual level: If it allows you to survive. The most single important thing for an individual is the individual itself.

Killing is evil on a social level: Because a society that condones its individuals killing each other doesn't last for long. Plus a society purpose is to protect its members after all.

So who's right in the end? No one. Because each one will do whatever is on their best interest.

Except for the whole the winner survives to write history and stuff.
Only there is such thing as choice of target. Hucks... indiscriminate. I suspect that I'm not that strong to kill myself in they situation, but if I'm really not I would've started with other Eclipse-infected to minimize casualties, and as I suck at detective work to find other major problems I'd followed with old "look rich and go to crime-infested territory and target you wouldn't feel bad about killing would show itself" scheme, then in Nanoha-verse there should be medieval planets to work mercenary - and NOT "when I want to kill - I find and kill some random civvies".

Problem with Hucks is not that they chose to kill, it's they do not want to live in civil war hellhole like Ruwellia, or on some medieval world or be sneaky and hunt criminals... it's they want to go where they wish, do anything they want and kill whenever they feel like - like higher being they are... not.
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Last edited by al103; 2011-08-08 at 03:20.
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Old 2011-08-08, 06:27   Link #3292
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Kuze View Post
I must completely disagree with the cattle part. The Hucks don't put any kind of value, positive /or/ negative, on the lives of people, or least not from their family.

They really don't feel anything at all about it. I mean, yeah, they like victory and hate defeat in context of a fight. But other than that? The value of life doesn't mean anything to them. They just don't care, outside the family.
Actually, that line of thinking only reinforces the cattle ideology. Do you hate the cow? Or do you feel sorry for it? No, you just don't care about it. Then you go out for steak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
I don't understand how anyone could like them. I really don't.
I like them the same way I like any villain. Being evil does not automatically make a character hated in my book. I still think Dooku was one of the best villains in Star Wars, and he's still one of my favorite characters, bad guy or not.
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Old 2011-08-08, 06:57   Link #3293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
And then the Huckebeins gather resources and manpower, probably to attempt some sort of massive attack somewhere. >_>
Likely against those evil scientist people because that's the Huckebein's main goal at the moment.

The Bureau should be thankful the Hucks are doing their jobs for them!
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Old 2011-08-08, 08:51   Link #3294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post

I like them the same way I like any villain. Being evil does not automatically make a character hated in my book. I still think Dooku was one of the best villains in Star Wars, and he's still one of my favorite characters, bad guy or not.
Well, as long as the characters still respected, the character will still keep favored.


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Likely against those evil scientist people because that's the Huckebein's main goal at the moment.

The Bureau should be thankful the Hucks are doing their jobs for them!
So that means evil versus evil? So if after they hunt down the evil scientist, what they do next? Provoking the Bureau?
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Old 2011-08-08, 09:50   Link #3295
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Well I still believe the Hucks aren't evil to there core as some may put it. They've just been treated like animals for so long that they've excepted their nature as such. If I've be labeled as monster then why not embrace it as fact?

You see I've always believed that monsters aren't born they are created. While personal choice dose play a part in it you have to realize it's really hard to make the correct choices when people already believe you're a murderous psychopath.

Oh and before anyone brings Toma's choice up the only reason he had the benefit of doubt is because he has friends who are agents in the TSAB. Not just any agents mind you but the 3 of them are aces and the same ones pursuing the Hucks at the time of his transformation. Yes Toma made a good choice to side with the TSAB but he was only allowed the choice because these where people who knew him.
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Old 2011-08-08, 09:58   Link #3296
Keroko
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Except that Thoma chose to die. Regardless of whom would have come to rescue him, he had already made his choice. In fact, he didn't even know who had come to rescue him until after he had made that choice.
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Old 2011-08-08, 10:07   Link #3297
Dark Wing
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Except that Thoma chose to die. Regardless of whom would have come to rescue him, he had already made his choice. In fact, he didn't even know who had come to rescue him until after he had made that choice.
Still had it been anyone else they would've just hunt him down relentlessly dead or alive he only manage to catch a break because Nanoha and Co. where there.
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Old 2011-08-08, 10:09   Link #3298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
Well I still believe the Hucks aren't evil to there core as some may put it. They've just been treated like animals for so long that they've excepted their nature as such. If I've be labeled as monster then why not embrace it as fact?

You see I've always believed that monsters aren't born they are created. While personal choice dose play a part in it you have to realize it's really hard to make the correct choices when people already believe you're a murderous psychopath.

Oh and before anyone brings Toma's choice up the only reason he had the benefit of doubt is because he has friends who are agents in the TSAB. Not just any agents mind you but the 3 of them are aces and the same ones pursuing the Hucks at the time of his transformation. Yes Toma made a good choice to side with the TSAB but he was only allowed the choice because these where people who knew him.


I understand what you say.


Treated like animal, yes. I could still understand them. But several of them wouldn't be invited to understand each other.


If they were invited just can't understand each other, either by negotiation or trading fists at once (or in Nanoha-verse, trading blows and sparks with their Device), what can we do? So, a final option is to slit their throats, if the both ways don't work.


So far the phrase "understand each other" doesn't exist in the dictionary of the Huckies. But the only we can do is hope there is a miracle given by the author himself.
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Old 2011-08-08, 10:33   Link #3299
mechdra
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I believe all bad people have their own reason to be what they are just like the Huckebein but tell that to the judge an the jury. I felt like Understanding them is just like trying to understand Joker.

Anyway, how did Isis react when she hears about Vivio and Einhart? This could be a major spoiler for Nanoha Vivid.
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Old 2011-08-08, 10:37   Link #3300
Zero Hurricane
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Anyway, how did Isis react when she hears about Vivio and Einhart? This could be a major spoiler for Nanoha Vivid.

Maybe she will say, "So this is the descendant of Saint King and the Hegemon, huh? Nice to meet you."


Yeah, something like that
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