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Old 2011-08-21, 23:07   Link #3601
Kaijo
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Obviously real life doesn't have magic. But that shouldn't stop people from acting like real people.

And I will say that, in regards to everything else on your list, it has been handled realistically enough to my satisfaction. I could go into detail, but this is a Force thread.

Suffice it to say, I like people having shades of gray, and Force seems to be bringing that out in spades.
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Old 2011-08-21, 23:30   Link #3602
Tiresias
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Ah, good for you then, though you'll have to forgive me for not sharing your enthusiasm and contentment.

But now, I'm going to resurface this post, just in case any able and willing Japanese speakers missed it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Oh well, apparently i found the script of Ch. 18, so you can give a peek.

Spoiler for Lots of japanese stuff o_o:


After a half-baked translation on google apparently this chapter is mostly filler(or at least gives a filler-like feeling xDU) to cover more of the training of the kids with no relevant info being revealed aside of a little comment about Caledfwich next step in combat crime or something like that.

Japanese-readers! please! xD
Btw, just how many named characters are on Section 6 now? I think I'm seeing Ginga
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Old 2011-08-22, 00:05   Link #3603
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@Real life doesn't have magic.

That's what you think! I call Niven's law.
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Old 2011-08-22, 00:48   Link #3604
Koveras Alvane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Btw, just how many named characters are on Section 6 now? I think I'm seeing Ginga
Pretty much every good character who was there post-StrikerS epilogue is now in SDS6. Inb4 cries of not sufficient spotlight on their favorite character.
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Old 2011-08-22, 00:50   Link #3605
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I prefer believable, well-written Gray, Kaijo, myself.
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Old 2011-08-22, 03:49   Link #3606
Keroko
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There is also one big question raised by the "the TSAB has a hand in the Eclipse" theory.

Why?

Why would a TSAB officer, even a corrupt one, want to have a hand in the Eclipse?

Hayate we can understand, it was to seal a deadly artifact that destroyed countless world.

The cyborgs we can understand, it was to create a force that could be as strong as the high-ranked mages the navy kept stealing to keep Mid Childa safe.

But Eclipse?

The Eclipse at its core is a virus that turns people into mass murderers. Mass murderers nearly immune to magic. It's a weapon that will turn on its creator by its very nature, and once it does cannot be stopped by magic, the very core of Mid Childa's technology.

Why would a TSAB officer, even a corrupt one, destroy his own job and life?
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Old 2011-08-22, 04:16   Link #3607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Why would a TSAB officer, even a corrupt one, destroy his own job and life?
The answer is simple: their stubbornness, selfishness and greed that makes them fall into the abyss of misery, which led to the loss of their own lives.
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Old 2011-08-22, 04:22   Link #3608
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In other words, we would need the villainous TSAB officer to be a complete idiot.
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Old 2011-08-22, 06:55   Link #3609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
There is also one big question raised by the "the TSAB has a hand in the Eclipse" theory.

Why?

Why would a TSAB officer, even a corrupt one, want to have a hand in the Eclipse?

Hayate we can understand, it was to seal a deadly artifact that destroyed countless world.

The cyborgs we can understand, it was to create a force that could be as strong as the high-ranked mages the navy kept stealing to keep Mid Childa safe.

But Eclipse?

The Eclipse at its core is a virus that turns people into mass murderers. Mass murderers nearly immune to magic. It's a weapon that will turn on its creator by its very nature, and once it does cannot be stopped by magic, the very core of Mid Childa's technology.

Why would a TSAB officer, even a corrupt one, destroy his own job and life?
What else? Power.

We know how powerful the virus is, so what if there was an entire army infected with it? What if they find a way to cure the negative aspects, but keep all the good? It's too amazing a weapon for the Bureau to have not entertained the thought of using it for themselves.

Or maybe they really want the shift to mass based weapons, and thus created a threat that requires such weapons.
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Old 2011-08-22, 07:19   Link #3610
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Except the eclipse virus is the very antithesis to the TSAB. To a power hungry TSAB officer, it destroys his base of power. If someone within the TSAB is power hungry, he would do his best to eradicate the eclipse virus, not spread it.

It makes sense for power hungry people outside of the TSAB to spread the virus, but not for someone inside it.

... Blagh, there I go poking holes at the theory again. But really the entire premise just so riddled with holes I can't walk two steps before falling into another one.
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Old 2011-08-22, 07:41   Link #3611
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I think of several possibilities.

#1. They are trying to weed out the "need to kill" aspect in order to have mages with the ability to easily disperse magic. The process just isn't perfected yet, hence the ongoing experimentation. Regius turned to supporting Jail because he couldn't get enough troops to properly protect Mid-Childa. What was the flashback scene? A mage supposedly blowing a small hole in the planet and killing a number of people. Having anti-magic troops would sure make apprehending criminal mages much easier.

#2. Whoever it is, has a card to play against the Eclipse infected, and so is creating a disaster that the Bureau isn't supposed to be able to handle. They'll come save the day and rise up in the ranks.

#3. The Bureau relies on magic, and someone wants to show the Bureau how stupid that is.

#4. Power. With an army of anti-magic troops under their control, seizing power in the Bureau is no real obstacle.

That's what I have off the top of my head. With a bit of thought, I could come up with more.
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Old 2011-08-22, 08:25   Link #3612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I think of several possibilities.

#1. They are trying to weed out the "need to kill" aspect in order to have mages with the ability to easily disperse magic. The process just isn't perfected yet, hence the ongoing experimentation. Regius turned to supporting Jail because he couldn't get enough troops to properly protect Mid-Childa. What was the flashback scene? A mage supposedly blowing a small hole in the planet and killing a number of people. Having anti-magic troops would sure make apprehending criminal mages much easier.

#2. Whoever it is, has a card to play against the Eclipse infected, and so is creating a disaster that the Bureau isn't supposed to be able to handle. They'll come save the day and rise up in the ranks.

#3. The Bureau relies on magic, and someone wants to show the Bureau how stupid that is.

#4. Power. With an army of anti-magic troops under their control, seizing power in the Bureau is no real obstacle.

That's what I have off the top of my head. With a bit of thought, I could come up with more.
Dude, you think too deep. Tsuzuki will definately laugh reading what we are discussing here and I guess 2ch did ot see this coming hahaha. Bute seriously, we are still in the very early stage of the story and I believe we will see more possibly by next year hahaha.
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Old 2011-08-22, 09:48   Link #3613
Akiyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Obviously real life doesn't have magic. But that shouldn't stop people from acting like real people.

And I will say that, in regards to everything else on your list, it has been handled realistically enough to my satisfaction. I could go into detail, but this is a Force thread.

Suffice it to say, I like people having shades of gray, and Force seems to be bringing that out in spades.
Realistic =/= Believable

All this theories and arguments about TSAB's and the Hucks moreality seems to be too cramped for a Tsuzuki story, even StrikerS cannot resist to apoint to the good human nature at the end. I fail to believe in this "Nanoha and Co." falls to evil/amorality without very good reasons(like something really bad happening to Vivio for example). Hayate had more than enough reasons to become corrupt, amoral or angry at the world but against all expectations she remains a good person only displaying the VERY understandable upset at the Huckebein for endangering human lives and trashing her family and friends. She forgives the guy who planned her "death"(well, eternal frozing) and killed her family in front of her very eyes for Pete's sake. Fate got a very nasty encounter with her trouble past courtesy on Jail Scaglietti but she can hold onto her duty and morals at the right time and decides to Home Run the guy instead of killing him(maybe a bad descicion in the long run but still proving how noble is Fate).

Something funny about this "TSAB is evul" theories is that it comes mostly from some of the people that supported the "Hucks are saints" theory. I don't want to start another battle for the soul of the Huckebein so you can believe whatever you want to believe but i think at least Tsuzuki tried to set something in stone: These guys are BAD. Ok, probably there's some nasty conspiration behind them or even eviler villains but that's not an exucuse to forgot the Hucks are serial murderers. After seeing how things ended up for the Numbers i will se very unrealistical to have the Hucks receiving a free-out-of-jail-pass. The only believable way i can see to have all the Hucks out of jail at the end of the season is if they manage to avoid been captured and keep being fugitives. Thus being available to reappear on future plots.

Remeber this gem:

"Reality is Unrealistic" xD
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Old 2011-08-22, 10:23   Link #3614
mechdra
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One thing, could the Hucks even survive jail sentence? Since they are all lock up and they could not kill, it is more of a death sentence to them unless the TSAB found a cure for them.

By the way, is there anyone in the Hucks that is still untainted by blood?
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Old 2011-08-22, 10:36   Link #3615
Akiyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechdra View Post
One thing, could the Hucks even survive jail sentence? Since they are all lock up and they could not kill, it is more of a death sentence to them unless the TSAB found a cure for them.
I'm pretty sure the miracle of the cure will be reached by someone before the end of the season, if the Hucks take it or not it will depend on their perfsonal preferences i guess. Maybe they just take Shamal's investigations about the treatement to remain healthy without the need of killing like Tohma and thus being abel to live their fugitive rebellious lives the way they want.
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Old 2011-08-22, 10:48   Link #3616
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And even if it doesn't work for whatever reason, just toss in a bunny every once in a while for them to kill.
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Old 2011-08-22, 12:54   Link #3617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
*snip*
You are forgetting one last thing, in the three animated seasons, the writer have always given some kind of excuse, bordering on the Freudian excuse in the case of Precia, to have the spectator sympathize a bit with the antagonists, and also to make some of them befriendable. For the Nanoverse to work, it requires the laws of the universe to make antagonists villains because they are poor people that needed to be listened.

A couple of people are waiting for what kind of freudian excuse we will have this time to symphatize with Veyron, Cypha, Deville, Loli and Curren.
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Old 2011-08-22, 13:17   Link #3618
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Any excuse will basically come right the fuck out of nowhere at this point. Are they going to spend two years making them sympathetic, too?
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Old 2011-08-22, 13:51   Link #3619
itanshi1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I think of several possibilities.

#1. They are trying to weed out the "need to kill" aspect in order to have mages with the ability to easily disperse magic. The process just isn't perfected yet, hence the ongoing experimentation. Regius turned to supporting Jail because he couldn't get enough troops to properly protect Mid-Childa. What was the flashback scene? A mage supposedly blowing a small hole in the planet and killing a number of people. Having anti-magic troops would sure make apprehending criminal mages much easier.

#2. Whoever it is, has a card to play against the Eclipse infected, and so is creating a disaster that the Bureau isn't supposed to be able to handle. They'll come save the day and rise up in the ranks.

#3. The Bureau relies on magic, and someone wants to show the Bureau how stupid that is.

#4. Power. With an army of anti-magic troops under their control, seizing power in the Bureau is no real obstacle.

That's what I have off the top of my head. With a bit of thought, I could come up with more.
I was thinking one of these many months ago |3 hehe, right when the eclipse virus was named. Oh yeah, if you ever want that zen feeling back after enduring the happenings of this thread, click my signature image.
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Old 2011-08-22, 13:52   Link #3620
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
Any excuse will basically come right the fuck out of nowhere at this point. Are they going to spend two years making them sympathetic, too?
And you know what? It WILL work, and you know why it will. Myself will mostly shake my head, because I am really in the same side as Tiriesas, the sick and tired of the freudian excuse. On the level of sick and tired of seeing the Char expy, the kid falling in the cockpit, in almost every Gundam ever; of seeing almost every arcs in Index concluding with Touma's boring speeches + PUNCH, etc...
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