Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[Kaijo]

Obviously real life doesn't have magic. But that shouldn't stop people from acting like real people.

And I will say that, in regards to everything else on your list, it has been handled realistically enough to my satisfaction. I could go into detail, but this is a Force thread.

Suffice it to say, I like people having shades of gray, and Force seems to be bringing that out in spades.

[Tiresias]

Ah, good for you then, though you'll have to forgive me for not sharing your enthusiasm and contentment.

But now, I'm going to resurface this post, just in case any able and willing Japanese speakers missed it

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Oh well, apparently i found the script of Ch. 18, so you can give a peek.

Spoiler for Lots of japanese stuff o_o:

【ヴァンデイン・コーポレーションの襲撃事件から数日が経過】【フッケバイン構成員の足取りは依然掴めず　 捜査は膠着していた】
【特務本部のEC対策と装備　対応人員の強化は確実に進行していた】【そして小さな朗報がひと つ――】

アギト｢シグナム…!シグナム、起きた?｣
リインフォース2「シグナム!」
シグナム「ここは……?」
アギト「シグナム、平気か?」
リインフォース2「リインやアギト達のこと、わかりますか?」
シグナム「迎えの天使にしてはずいぶんとちまっちいと思っていたが」「お前達だったか」
アギト「起きて一言目がそれかよ!」
リインフォース2「心配したんですよ、本当に!」
はやて「ごめんな、シグナム」「天国の初代(アインス)と一緒の無期限休養はまだまだ当分先の話や」「そや けど本当に無事で良かった」「おかえり、シグナム」
シグナム「はい――我が主」

管理局見習い――トーマたち3人の新しい生活が始まる!
魔法戦記リリカルなのはForce　Record18:「Cross　encounter(クロスエンカウ ンター)」(前篇)

特務六課　隊員寮　寮内2F　見習い3人組の部屋

スティード「この部屋での暮らしも少しは慣れましたか?」
トーマ「まあ、慣れざるを得ないっつーかなぁ」
アイシス「もっとタコ部屋とか刑務所みたいなのを想像してたんだけど全然フツーの生活空間だよ ねぇ」
リリィ「でも、このカーテンがちょっと邪魔」
アイシス「そうだねえ、別にいらなくない?」
トーマ「いる。着替えとかどうする気だ」
リリィ「あ、はいっ」
エリオ「こんにちは」
キャロ「失礼しまーす!」
トーマ「エリオくん!キャロちゃん!?」
キャロ「トーマ!ひさしぶり!」
トーマ「うん、久しぶり!」
エリオ「しばらく見ない間に大きくなったねえ」
トーマ「巨大化!?」※エリオを見て。「いやそれ、こっちのセリフだから!」
エリオ「そっちの二人には「初めまして」だね」「スバルさんやティアナさんのもと同僚、エリオ・モンディア ルです」
キャロ「同じくキャロ・ル・ルシエです」
リリィ「こんにちは、リリィ・シュトロゼックです」
アイシス「えと、アイシス・イーグレットです」
エリオ「トーマは色々大変だったけど、無事でよかったよ」
トーマ「うん……」「エリオくん、現場にいたんでしょ?俺やフッケバインの皆の攻撃とか受けた んじゃ……」
エリオ「仕事だだから慣れてるし、無事だったんだからOKだよ」
キャロ「さて、仲良し男子達は話が盛り上がってるけど」「聞いてるよね?今日から訓練が始まる の」
リリィ「あ、はいっ」
キャロ「スバルさん達はもう訓練場入りしてるから」「私たちもぱぱっと着替えて、一緒に集合場所に行こう! 」

務六課　海上トレーニングスペース

なのは「改めまして、特務六課の戦技教導官、高町なのは一等空尉です」
ヴィータ「同じく、ヴィータ二等空尉だ」
※右からアイシス、リリィ、トーマ、キャロ、エリオ、スバルの順に整列している。
なのは「白シャツの見習いトリオは各種の基礎から、黒シャツの先輩組は新装備対応とフォーメーションを中心 に訓練していきます」
ヴィータ「黒シャツ組は他にもいるが後々合流する、紹介と挨拶は各自でしろ」「見習い共は、別に公務の役に 立てとは言わねえ」
　　　　「フォワードチームの邪魔をしたり、足を引っ張ったりしなきゃそれでいい」
なのは「まずは自分や友達の命を守れるようにならないとね」
アイシス「フフン、体力や運動能力には自信あるもんね。びっくりさせてやるんだから」
トーマ「できるといいけどなあ」
ヴィータ「じゃあまずは軽くアップして、フィジカルメニューを一通り!」「ソードフィッシュ1が先頭をやれ 」
スバル「はいっ!」

40分経過

はぁはぁはぁはぁ　どろーん※ぐったりしているトーマ、リリィ、アイシス。
ヴィータ「オラどーした見習い!まだ準備運動だぞ?」
トーマ「す、す、すみません…」『おかしい…この運動量はおかしい……』「スゥちゃんやエリオくんはともか く、キャロちゃんまで…」
キャロ「一応は現職ですよー、鍛えてます!」
ティアナ「すみません、遅くなりました!」※ティアナとギンガが合流する。
なのは「ティアナ、ギンガ、会議の方はもういいの?」
ティアナ「はい!」
ヴィータ「良し!それじゃメインメニューに入るぞ!」
スバル・エリオ・キャロ「はいっ」トーマ・リリィ・アイシス「は…はいっ!」
トーマ「リリィ、大丈夫?」
リリィ「大丈夫…がんばる…!」
アイシス「ひいき反対!あたしの心配もしてってば!」

ヴィータ「隊長の見つけてきた見習いども――」「あんまこんな事は言いたくねーですけどね」
※ロープを使ってのビル屋上からの降下訓練やストライクカノンを持ってのランニングをしている一 同。
ヴィータ「ありゃあ、全ッ然ダメだな」※へろへろになっているトーマ、リリィ、アイシス。
なのは「まあ、否定はできないねえ」「それでも取り急ぎ、自分と友達の安全くらいは守れるようになってもら わなきゃね」
ヴィータ「ついでに、本隊(こっち)の足を引っ張らねーようにです」
なのは「さて、そろそろ実戦練習に入るよー」｢全員、集合ッ!｣
トーマ・アイシス「はいっ!」
アイシス「よおし!ランニングとかじゃなくて実戦ならッ!」

ヴィータ「まずは見習い3人!デバイス起動、防護服着装!」
アイシス「了解ッ!ジャケット・オンッ!」
パフィ「おや、出番ですか?」
アイシス「実戦訓練だよ、パフィ!」
リリィ「エンゲージ・スタンバイ」「ディバイダーセット――」※ディバイダー996と銀十字の書が出現、ト ーマとリリィが融合。
銀十字の書「エクリプス、コントロール、正常範囲」
リリィ「システムゼロ――」「スタート・アップ」
ディバイダー996　シュトロゼック・リアクテッド『黒騎士』

ヴィータ『跳ねっ返りは電池式防護服で、二人組は融合型と』
なのは『二人とも魔力に依存しない戦力ってのは大きいね』

キャロ「わー、生で見るのははじめてだー」
エリオ「相変わらず、悪そうだねぇ」
トーマ「うう、そう言われても」
スバル「アイシスも、カッコいいね」
アイシス「どーもです」
エリオ「ん?でも目の色が違うね、前は赤かったけど――」「今は…んー、紫?」
スバル「安定してるからだね、リリィがトーマの中で頑張ってるから」

To　be　continued　Record18(後編)

After a half-baked translation on google apparently this chapter is mostly filler(or at least gives a filler-like feeling xDU) to cover more of the training of the kids with no relevant info being revealed aside of a little comment about Caledfwich next step in combat crime or something like that.

Japanese-readers! please! xD

Btw, just how many named characters are on Section 6 now? I think I'm seeing Ginga

[Proto]

@Real life doesn't have magic.

That's what you think! I call Niven's law.

[Koveras Alvane]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Btw, just how many named characters are on Section 6 now? I think I'm seeing Ginga

Pretty much every good character who was there post-StrikerS epilogue is now in SDS6. Inb4 cries of not sufficient spotlight on their favorite character.

[Justin_Brett]

I prefer believable, well-written Gray, Kaijo, myself.

[Keroko]

There is also one big question raised by the "the TSAB has a hand in the Eclipse" theory.

Why?

Why would a TSAB officer, even a corrupt one, want to have a hand in the Eclipse?

Hayate we can understand, it was to seal a deadly artifact that destroyed countless world.

The cyborgs we can understand, it was to create a force that could be as strong as the high-ranked mages the navy kept stealing to keep Mid Childa safe.

But Eclipse?

The Eclipse at its core is a virus that turns people into mass murderers. Mass murderers nearly immune to magic. It's a weapon that will turn on its creator by its very nature, and once it does cannot be stopped by magic, the very core of Mid Childa's technology.

Why would a TSAB officer, even a corrupt one, destroy his own job and life?

[Zero Hurricane]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Why would a TSAB officer, even a corrupt one, destroy his own job and life?

The answer is simple: their stubbornness, selfishness and greed that makes them fall into the abyss of misery, which led to the loss of their own lives.

[Keroko]

In other words, we would need the villainous TSAB officer to be a complete idiot.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Keroko

There is also one big question raised by the "the TSAB has a hand in the Eclipse" theory.

Why?

Why would a TSAB officer, even a corrupt one, want to have a hand in the Eclipse?

Hayate we can understand, it was to seal a deadly artifact that destroyed countless world.

The cyborgs we can understand, it was to create a force that could be as strong as the high-ranked mages the navy kept stealing to keep Mid Childa safe.

But Eclipse?

The Eclipse at its core is a virus that turns people into mass murderers. Mass murderers nearly immune to magic. It's a weapon that will turn on its creator by its very nature, and once it does cannot be stopped by magic, the very core of Mid Childa's technology.

Why would a TSAB officer, even a corrupt one, destroy his own job and life?

What else? Power.

We know how powerful the virus is, so what if there was an entire army infected with it? What if they find a way to cure the negative aspects, but keep all the good? It's too amazing a weapon for the Bureau to have not entertained the thought of using it for themselves.

Or maybe they really want the shift to mass based weapons, and thus created a threat that requires such weapons.

[Keroko]

Except the eclipse virus is the very antithesis to the TSAB. To a power hungry TSAB officer, it destroys his base of power. If someone within the TSAB is power hungry, he would do his best to eradicate the eclipse virus, not spread it.

It makes sense for power hungry people outside of the TSAB to spread the virus, but not for someone inside it.

... Blagh, there I go poking holes at the theory again. But really the entire premise just so riddled with holes I can't walk two steps before falling into another one.

[Kaijo]

I think of several possibilities.

#1. They are trying to weed out the "need to kill" aspect in order to have mages with the ability to easily disperse magic. The process just isn't perfected yet, hence the ongoing experimentation. Regius turned to supporting Jail because he couldn't get enough troops to properly protect Mid-Childa. What was the flashback scene? A mage supposedly blowing a small hole in the planet and killing a number of people. Having anti-magic troops would sure make apprehending criminal mages much easier.

#2. Whoever it is, has a card to play against the Eclipse infected, and so is creating a disaster that the Bureau isn't supposed to be able to handle. They'll come save the day and rise up in the ranks.

#3. The Bureau relies on magic, and someone wants to show the Bureau how stupid that is.

#4. Power. With an army of anti-magic troops under their control, seizing power in the Bureau is no real obstacle.

That's what I have off the top of my head. With a bit of thought, I could come up with more.

[mechdra]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

I think of several possibilities.

#1. They are trying to weed out the "need to kill" aspect in order to have mages with the ability to easily disperse magic. The process just isn't perfected yet, hence the ongoing experimentation. Regius turned to supporting Jail because he couldn't get enough troops to properly protect Mid-Childa. What was the flashback scene? A mage supposedly blowing a small hole in the planet and killing a number of people. Having anti-magic troops would sure make apprehending criminal mages much easier.

#2. Whoever it is, has a card to play against the Eclipse infected, and so is creating a disaster that the Bureau isn't supposed to be able to handle. They'll come save the day and rise up in the ranks.

#3. The Bureau relies on magic, and someone wants to show the Bureau how stupid that is.

#4. Power. With an army of anti-magic troops under their control, seizing power in the Bureau is no real obstacle.

That's what I have off the top of my head. With a bit of thought, I could come up with more.

Dude, you think too deep. Tsuzuki will definately laugh reading what we are discussing here and I guess 2ch did ot see this coming hahaha. Bute seriously, we are still in the very early stage of the story and I believe we will see more possibly by next year hahaha.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Obviously real life doesn't have magic. But that shouldn't stop people from acting like real people.

And I will say that, in regards to everything else on your list, it has been handled realistically enough to my satisfaction. I could go into detail, but this is a Force thread.

Suffice it to say, I like people having shades of gray, and Force seems to be bringing that out in spades.

Realistic =/= Believable

All this theories and arguments about TSAB's and the Hucks moreality seems to be too cramped for a Tsuzuki story, even StrikerS cannot resist to apoint to the good human nature at the end. I fail to believe in this "Nanoha and Co." falls to evil/amorality without very good reasons(like something really bad happening to Vivio for example). Hayate had more than enough reasons to become corrupt, amoral or angry at the world but against all expectations she remains a good person only displaying the VERY understandable upset at the Huckebein for endangering human lives and trashing her family and friends. She forgives the guy who planned her "death"(well, eternal frozing) and killed her family in front of her very eyes for Pete's sake. Fate got a very nasty encounter with her trouble past courtesy on Jail Scaglietti but she can hold onto her duty and morals at the right time and decides to Home Run the guy instead of killing him(maybe a bad descicion in the long run but still proving how noble is Fate).

Something funny about this "TSAB is evul" theories is that it comes mostly from some of the people that supported the "Hucks are saints" theory. I don't want to start another battle for the soul of the Huckebein so you can believe whatever you want to believe but i think at least Tsuzuki tried to set something in stone: These guys are BAD. Ok, probably there's some nasty conspiration behind them or even eviler villains but that's not an exucuse to forgot the Hucks are serial murderers. After seeing how things ended up for the Numbers i will se very unrealistical to have the Hucks receiving a free-out-of-jail-pass. The only believable way i can see to have all the Hucks out of jail at the end of the season is if they manage to avoid been captured and keep being fugitives. Thus being available to reappear on future plots.

Remeber this gem:

"Reality is Unrealistic" xD

[mechdra]

One thing, could the Hucks even survive jail sentence? Since they are all lock up and they could not kill, it is more of a death sentence to them unless the TSAB found a cure for them.

By the way, is there anyone in the Hucks that is still untainted by blood?

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by mechdra

One thing, could the Hucks even survive jail sentence? Since they are all lock up and they could not kill, it is more of a death sentence to them unless the TSAB found a cure for them.

I'm pretty sure the miracle of the cure will be reached by someone before the end of the season, if the Hucks take it or not it will depend on their perfsonal preferences i guess. Maybe they just take Shamal's investigations about the treatement to remain healthy without the need of killing like Tohma and thus being abel to live their fugitive rebellious lives the way they want.

[Keroko]

And even if it doesn't work for whatever reason, just toss in a bunny every once in a while for them to kill.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

*snip*

You are forgetting one last thing, in the three animated seasons, the writer have always given some kind of excuse, bordering on the Freudian excuse in the case of Precia, to have the spectator sympathize a bit with the antagonists, and also to make some of them befriendable. For the Nanoverse to work, it requires the laws of the universe to make antagonists villains because they are poor people that needed to be listened.

A couple of people are waiting for what kind of freudian excuse we will have this time to symphatize with Veyron, Cypha, Deville, Loli and Curren.

[Justin_Brett]

Any excuse will basically come right the fuck out of nowhere at this point. Are they going to spend two years making them sympathetic, too?

[itanshi1]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

I think of several possibilities.

#1. They are trying to weed out the "need to kill" aspect in order to have mages with the ability to easily disperse magic. The process just isn't perfected yet, hence the ongoing experimentation. Regius turned to supporting Jail because he couldn't get enough troops to properly protect Mid-Childa. What was the flashback scene? A mage supposedly blowing a small hole in the planet and killing a number of people. Having anti-magic troops would sure make apprehending criminal mages much easier.

#2. Whoever it is, has a card to play against the Eclipse infected, and so is creating a disaster that the Bureau isn't supposed to be able to handle. They'll come save the day and rise up in the ranks.

#3. The Bureau relies on magic, and someone wants to show the Bureau how stupid that is.

#4. Power. With an army of anti-magic troops under their control, seizing power in the Bureau is no real obstacle.

That's what I have off the top of my head. With a bit of thought, I could come up with more.

I was thinking one of these many months ago |3 hehe, right when the eclipse virus was named. Oh yeah, if you ever want that zen feeling back after enduring the happenings of this thread, click my signature image.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Any excuse will basically come right the fuck out of nowhere at this point. Are they going to spend two years making them sympathetic, too?

And you know what? It WILL work, and you know why it will. Myself will mostly shake my head, because I am really in the same side as Tiriesas, the sick and tired of the freudian excuse. On the level of sick and tired of seeing the Char expy, the kid falling in the cockpit, in almost every Gundam ever; of seeing almost every arcs in Index concluding with Touma's boring speeches + PUNCH, etc...