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Old 2011-08-25, 18:19   Link #3781
ZeroIchiNi
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I think the Eternal Coffing would work since Hayate did tried that giant block of ice spell.

As for LostSome and the magic fire, I believe in.

Oxygen + Heat + Fuel = fire

Think that magic would be the Fuel. and without it, it'll go poof.
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Old 2011-08-25, 18:29   Link #3782
Akiyoshi
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Think that magic would be the Fuel. and without it, it'll go poof.
Sounds plausible, but still contrast with the "transforming mana into a diffrent kind of energy" according to this once the mana is transformed into an element is not mana anymore. But, taking into consideration that a flamethrower needs gas to produce the flames i can probably guess you're right with the divider cutting the fuel of the fire MCF.

But, what will happen with the lightning MCF? I think electricity is a bit more auto-sustentable kind of energy than combustion.
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Old 2011-08-25, 18:59   Link #3783
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Wouldn`t control be an issue with lightning ?
Short range, ok.
But in long range... Electricity like to go the eaiest way, not the straight way.

Arnage`s little gun worked wonders for knocking out Thoma.
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Old 2011-08-25, 19:01   Link #3784
Akiyoshi
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Arnage`s little gun worked wonders for knocking out Thoma.
I think she used some sort of spray gas to knock him and the girls out o_o
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Old 2011-08-25, 19:42   Link #3785
Justin_Brett
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You'd think a healing factor would counteract knock-out gas.
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Old 2011-08-25, 20:25   Link #3786
Akiyoshi
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You'd think a healing factor would counteract knock-out gas.
Knock-out gas made by Fortis to be effective against Eclipse Drivers maybe? I don't know really so it's just guessing xDU
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Old 2011-08-25, 20:33   Link #3787
Kuze
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What is there to heal from knockout gas? In fiction, nothing. It's not harming the body. It's not damaging anything.

If losing consciousness was hurting someone, then what does that say about Nanoha's magic? That would contradict everything we have been told about it.

EC virus is a regen boost, not a foreign substance resist strat.
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Old 2011-08-25, 20:40   Link #3788
Justin_Brett
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Being unconscious? I dunno. Healing factors just tend to prevent foreign substances that enter the body from working in fiction. Like, Wolverine can't get drunk, I think.
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Old 2011-08-25, 20:48   Link #3789
Akiyoshi
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Being unconscious? I dunno. Healing factors just tend to prevent foreign substances that enter the body from working in fiction. Like, Wolverine can't get drunk, I think.
But Wolverine has been knocked out by gas, drugs, etc... sometimes. I think it depends on the writer.

It's similar to Mana Conversion Affinity, even if their description describe it as a "magic to conventional energy instant conversion" it still fails against Eclipse mostly "Because Tsuzuki Says So".
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Old 2011-08-25, 20:50   Link #3790
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Even that one is highly suspect, and dependent on who's writing Wolverine. The same guy who, from one author will completely regenerate in several hours from his entire body being atomized by a nuke, and who can be incapacitated for something like a day from being shot in the eye with another author.

No, I'm comfortable knowing that the Eclipse isn't invincible. Besides, magical universe R&D. If Isis is any kind of indication, manufacturers have plenty of fun coming up with chemicals that take a nice long leak on the law of thermodynamics. And Fortis being into chemistry would at least give him some defining role or other.

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Quote:
it still fails against Eclipse mostly "Because Tsuzuki Says So".
By that logic, Cypha would've stopped the Heimdall in its tracks and kept it from reforming at all.

Just because a Fire Ring from Signum didn't work doesn't mean that MCF can't work against EC. DeVille and Cypha could not break Bardiche. Even with DeVille's big ass axe, that weapon that is supreme among cutting weapons, you know?
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Old 2011-08-25, 21:04   Link #3791
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By that logic, Cypha would've stopped the Heimdall in its tracks and kept it from reforming at all.
Well, there's also the theory about the limit of the amount of magic the Hucks can negate, even when the Esquad Huckebein has canonly comfirmed to be able to shrug off the Arc-en-Ciel without problems some are still saying the Hucks themselves wouldn't be able to do that because of the unholy amount of powers in that weapon(the same is argumented for a Sarlight breaker). also Heimdall didn't relly on a MCF to be formed. Hayate's magic only regulated the temprature anf gives the form, Cypha easily cuts it into pieces but Hayate is able to recast her magic on the remaining pieces(if it where something similar to Agito's MCF the ice shoul've disintegrated instantly). More support to the theory the MCF description is wrong and said "instant elemental conversion" isn't really that.

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Just because a Fire Ring from Signum didn't work doesn't mean that MCF can't work against EC. DeVille and Cypha could not break Bardiche. Even with DeVille's big ass axe, that weapon that is supreme among cutting weapons, you know?
You forgot that this is the 5th Generation Bardiche we're talking about, he's already upgraded to be able to safely transform magical energy into conventional energy effects, thus allowing fate to be able to use her magic lighning powers safely(albeit a bit weaker than in normal ciscunstances).

Which gives some worries about Laevatein. According to the DVD booklets of StrikerS, intelligent devices are special because they can grow up and adapt to various upgrades in order to develop along with their masters. but nothing like that was mentioned about Armed Devices, which greatly reduces any possibilities for the Wolks weapons to be upgraded(which also explains why Vita received a new hammer instead of upgrading graf Eisen).

Ugly AEC-sword incoming T-T
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Old 2011-08-25, 21:07   Link #3792
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Since when was it confirmed that the Esquad Huckebein could shrug off an Arc-En-Ciel? They've only fired the Augusto at it from what we've seen, and the Arc-En-Ciel itself rips a hole in dimensions and lets the resulting rift make short work of the target, so it's not actually using magic to assault the target directly.
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Old 2011-08-25, 21:16   Link #3793
Kuze
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but nothing like that was mentioned about Armed Devices, which greatly reduces any possibilities for the Wolks weapons to be upgraded(which also explains why Vita received a new hammer instead of upgrading graf Eisen).
Vita doesn't have Agito on stand by, does she? Signum's equipment wasn't ready for a reason I'm guessing.

But on the side....poor Agito, no fans, no one cares about you.
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Old 2011-08-25, 21:54   Link #3794
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Well, as we know in Chapter 12 Fate have much faster movement than Deville. Plus Signum managed to deliver a powerful blow to Cypha before she uses the full power to curb-stomp her. In my opinion, as strong as any Eclipse effect they have, there must be some disadvantages as well.
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Old 2011-08-25, 22:18   Link #3795
LostSome
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I don`t think Deville was ever "fast".(Not a slug either though.)
I made for speed with teleportations to blank spots. If you don`t know of that skill, you are pretty much screw.
Deville got inside the Fortress defenses pretty easily...
Better fix that in your bigger whatever, Nanoha.
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Old 2011-08-25, 22:43   Link #3796
DezoPenguin
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Since when was it confirmed that the Esquad Huckebein could shrug off an Arc-En-Ciel? They've only fired the Augusto at it from what we've seen, and the Arc-En-Ciel itself rips a hole in dimensions and lets the resulting rift make short work of the target, so it's not actually using magic to assault the target directly.
It was in one of the Force NEXTs, I believe, the one that discussed the ship?
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Old 2011-08-25, 23:17   Link #3797
Justin_Brett
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And even if it could negate what causes the initial rift, just fire it right next to the Esquad. It's not like it has anti-magic batteries or anything.

Quote:
Even that one is highly suspect, and dependent on who's writing Wolverine. The same guy who, from one author will completely regenerate in several hours from his entire body being atomized by a nuke, and who can be incapacitated for something like a day from being shot in the eye with another author.
Yeah, probably should have picked someone with less fluctuation. I couldn't really think of anyone else, but I'm sure it's come up before.
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Old 2011-08-25, 23:43   Link #3798
Akiyoshi
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But on the side....poor Agito, no fans, no one cares about you.
It's not that people don't like her. It's more the fact that we know she's pretty screwed, she's a device designed to improve mana procesing and linking which are the exact two things Eclipse is specialized in cancelling. She also have a fire MCF which also proven useless against and Eclipse Driver. So, Agito's utility in battle against the Hucks is zero.

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It was in one of the Force NEXTs, I believe, the one that discussed the ship?
Indeed, it was on Stella's NEXT design which revealed some details about the Esquad Huckebein and among them is mentioned the ability to cancel the power and effects of high class TSAB warship weaponry such as the Arc-en-Ciel.

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And even if it could negate what causes the initial rift, just fire it right next to the Esquad. It's not like it has anti-magic batteries or anything.
Take into consideration the Arc-en-Ciel also isn't an easy-to-shoot weapon. It need preparations, targeting, charge time, and authorization to be fired. Missing a shot with such a complicated weapon can be critical on a dire situation(even more since the Esquad Huckebein have demonstrated their maneuverability and speed at making escape routes). Probably your plan will work if the assault is executed by a squad of TSAB's warships thus able to make a secuence of shoots with the Arc-en-Ciel.

Still, the Esquad Huckebein is capable of interdimensional transfer and so far the Hucks have worked near poblated areas which made difficult such attempts. I wonder if Curren is councsiopus of such possibility and makes that movements on purpouse.
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Last edited by Akiyoshi; 2011-08-26 at 01:05.
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Old 2011-08-26, 00:18   Link #3799
Justin_Brett
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Well of course, she's a SUPER EVIL GENIUS VILLAIN. What else should you expect?
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Old 2011-08-26, 00:20   Link #3800
LostSome
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Firing multiple shots of the Arc-en-ciel from multiple warships ?
Crazy ideas are the best.
Why not make a star go supernova ?
Stargate Nanoha.
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