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Old 2011-12-03, 07:52   Link #4661
LoweGear
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Which means Yuuno, Arf and Zafira are the greatest of the cast for not using any devices. Period.

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Old 2011-12-03, 10:30   Link #4662
Koveras Alvane
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Which means Yuuno, Arf and Zafira are the greatest of the cast for not using any devices. Period.

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You forgot Lindy.
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Old 2011-12-03, 11:55   Link #4663
Akiyoshi
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Almost any member of the main cast will be "crippled" when their devices are taken away. It's the downside of having a tool you rely on to perform optimally, your performance suffers when it's taken away. That does not, however, make having a tool inherently bad. Take away airplanes and the modern human infrastructure collapses on a near global range, does that make using planes bad?
I'll try to be objective with my own very subjective comment. Some mages have displayed some flexibility to work even without their devices, Nanoha herself is a great example, Crossfire Shoot, Restrict Lock, Knuckle Buster and Strike Smasher can be used without any assistance of Raising Heart which is a pretty decent advantage. But being fair to Signum and other less flexible fighters, this can be attributed more to Nanoha's modern combat style. Her formation as a fighter is modeles after soldiers and fighter jets and thus trained to have options available at every moment. The Wolkenritter's route is modeled after Knights who have the advantage of sharpening thier ability with one weapon to the edge but lack the flexibility of a soldier to take options in case they get disarmed. We can say that, historically, Knights tend to fall on having a Crippling Overspecialization on a frequent basis.

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You forgot Lindy.
The Asura counts as a Humongous Device for her maybe? Stella has the Esquad Huckebein after all xD!
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Old 2011-12-03, 12:28   Link #4664
Keroko
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A device doesn't need to be transformed in order to provide support. So far we've seen Raising Heart, Teo, Cris and Rio's device which name I forgot all supporting their mages without transforming themselves. Also recall that the one time we've seen Nanoha without her device, she couldn't even so much as fly.
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Old 2011-12-03, 13:19   Link #4665
Akiyoshi
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^ At absolutely minimum she can use Divine Shooter and Round shield like we've seen at the beginning of A's.

Also, i remember Nanoha calling Raising Heart to absolutely not interfere when she proceeds to cold Teana's head, during that segment she used Crossfire Shoot, Restrict Lock AND Floater.
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Old 2011-12-03, 13:26   Link #4666
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Raising Heart was still very much present when Vita attacked. And she never told Raising Heart not to interfere, just to release staff mode. Two hands to block both Teana and Subaru and all.
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Old 2011-12-03, 13:37   Link #4667
Akiyoshi
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In her very first scene during A's Nanoha was practicing Divine Shooter with Rasing Heart reduced only to watch her performance and keeping count of the times she hit the can xD
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Old 2011-12-03, 15:59   Link #4668
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True. I'm not saying she's completely powerless without Raising Heart, but just like everyone who we constantly see using a device, we have to keep in mind that without it she's not as powerful as we keep seeing her. It's not just something only Signum suffers.
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Old 2011-12-03, 17:08   Link #4669
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I agree with Keroko.
Nanoha`s not at her best without RH...
How many of her big fights could she had won alone ?

I dare anyone to give Signum a normal sword and say to her that she`s useless with Leavatein.

Speaking about that, I`ll give a rare thump up to Erio for doing well without Strada against Deville. Or without Caro for that matter.
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Old 2011-12-03, 21:30   Link #4670
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True. I'm not saying she's completely powerless without Raising Heart, but just like everyone who we constantly see using a device, we have to keep in mind that without it she's not as powerful as we keep seeing her. It's not just something only Signum suffers.
You're right on that one, still it could be awesome if FORCE Signum were as efficient with her fists as Old Iron's Signum in his "swords & Shields" fic, he amped up her capabilites to ludicrous levels, and i love it xD!

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Speaking about that, I`ll give a rare thump up to Erio for doing well without Strada against Deville. Or without Caro for that matter.
Signum too, it's one of the reasons of why i can't keeping claiming that she sucks as a fighter, while not as awesome or badass as before, she still do a surprisingly good job in her first after-hospital fight considering she's using her classic equipement and who her opponent is.

For now she's on the comfort zone of the "averagely good" fighters, i guess only Tsuzuki can tell if she will manage to do something awe-inspiring in the future.
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Old 2011-12-04, 06:34   Link #4671
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Oh hey everybody, I'm back from Africa. How goeth the eternal circular Huckbein arguments?

Looks like I have two more Force installments to catch up on. I'll join the fun when I get back from that.
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Old 2011-12-04, 07:59   Link #4672
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am i the only one who thinks stella is gonna be adoted into the takamachi family
both incharecter design and the whole controler of a ship thing theyre wat too similar
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Old 2011-12-04, 09:25   Link #4673
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Oh hey everybody, I'm back from Africa. How goeth the eternal circular Huckbein arguments?

Looks like I have two more Force installments to catch up on. I'll join the fun when I get back from that.
Nope. There is only Thoma and his friends are undergoing training with Nanoha and friends. In addition, there is a blue-collar crime versus white-collar crime feud in the Force.

Spoiler for Some important points contained in Chapter 20:
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Old 2011-12-04, 13:47   Link #4674
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6. In the end of chapter, the CEO of Vandin handles a Divider, with a silly yet sinister smile. I wonder if that Divider probably a replica or that Veyron seek, but for sure I've smelled a feud between blue-collar crime and white-collar crime.
That could be an interesting plotline, i wonder how dangerous Veyron will be if she recovers his original Divider and get his hands on a Reactor, Fifth is a good candidate to fill that spot. Veyron is a pretty hardcore fighter, he anhilated a reacted EC Driver by himself with standard EC equipement.
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Old 2011-12-04, 15:44   Link #4675
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Veyron didn`t even had his divider, just his claw.
Unless I`m mistaken, it`s not even standart EC, just a weapon.
First he told Fortis that he doesn`t need some Reactor and than proof it like a beast.
Got to love Veyron`s manliness. Now all he needs is to cut a train car in half with a chain saw !

Sorry, Aki, but I kind of like Veyron like he is now. Screw the Dividers/reactors, Veyron doesn`t need shiny new toys !
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Old 2011-12-04, 15:47   Link #4676
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Veyron's the only Huck that's actually an underdog in practice, so I can understand rooting for him.
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Old 2011-12-04, 16:08   Link #4677
Akiyoshi
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Veyron didn`t even had his divider, just his claw.
Unless I`m mistaken, it`s not even standart EC, just a weapon.
First he told Fortis that he doesn`t need some Reactor and than proof it like a beast.
Got to love Veyron`s manliness. Now all he needs is to cut a train car in half with a chain saw !

Sorry, Aki, but I kind of like Veyron like he is now. Screw the Dividers/reactors, Veyron doesn`t need shiny new toys !
Whoah! it's ok pal, i inderstand your point. But just to clarify. Veyron's weapon IS a divider, divider-928 to be specific. The thing is that 928 is a borrowed divider form an unknow EC Driver, we don't know what happened with Veyron's original divider(of if he even had an original divder at all). I also find Veyron relly cool because he's one of the few males in the franchise actually doing some serious stuff in years, he manage to be astonishingly efficient despite being arguably weaker than his comrades(i see him like kind of an evil Chrono) which also foreshadows how dangerous he can become with the proper EC equipement.

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Veyron's the only Huck that's actually an underdog in practice, so I can understand rooting for him.
Yep, plus is the only Huckebein who has participated in a truly decent fight so far, Curren was pretty badass in her introduction but that not changed the fact that it felt like a lame asspull.

Curiously Arnage is more or less kind of a worf-ish character so far. despite having an imbued reactor and various modes she seems to be a bit less effective than the other Huckebeins. I guess we still need to see her facing the correct adversary to show some of her own awesomeness. Facing Isis who posses "projectile scrambling" powers was a bit unfair for her, on the other hand, she's already aware of said powers so i guess she will change into Plasma Cannon mode from the very beginning of the fight.
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Old 2011-12-04, 16:14   Link #4678
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I guess the reason Veyron's disliked by the others is because he's not a game breaker like they are?
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Old 2011-12-04, 16:15   Link #4679
Akiyoshi
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I guess the reason Veyron's disliked by the others is because he's not a game breaker like they are?
Or because he manage to keep up with them despite not being one?
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Old 2011-12-04, 16:20   Link #4680
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I know that he is using a divider, but he didn`t used it to beat that extra.
But I guess I know now where I got that disliking of Thoma`s dependance of his reactor/divider from.

Veyron seems to be a lone wolf...
I have yet to see him getting into anything serious against the other Hulks except Arnage`s annoying attitude.
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