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Old 2012-06-20, 11:33   Link #6261
Justin_Brett
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Under the definition of a 'fight', then this actually was the better one, since it wasn't just one person beating another up for one chapter with no resistance, and then the other suddenly winning.

Don't know why you think she was the underdog, though; Cypha couldn't do shit. Ten bucks she has some BS excuse about how she didn't want to waste her time when she gets back to the Esquad.
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Old 2012-06-20, 11:48   Link #6262
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
Under the definition of a 'fight', then this actually was the better one, since it wasn't just one person beating another up for one chapter with no resistance, and then the other suddenly winning.
Well, from a certain standpoint, yeah this fight was less one-sided for both fighters. I just say Signum looked less powerfull and imposing here than in Ch. 6 but well, after being beaten so hard i guess it's a natural consequence to lose some of your awesomeness in the process.

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Don't know why you think she was the underdog, though; Cypha couldn't do shit.
But it was implied Cypha is still stronger and tougher than her and the only thing standing between Signum and another beating is the AEC-Equipement she's holding ...and even that got ultimately crushed by Cypha's bare hands with Signum barely escaping with her internal organs intact. So, in resume, it's implied Cypha can destroy her on an equal fight by virtue of being physically superior.

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Ten bucks she has some BS excuse about how she didn't want to waste her time when she gets back to the Esquad.
More likely that will be her answer. I wonder if Signum was close to hit or discover soem important weakpoint in Cypha's body or powers because otherwise Cypha just had the upper hand at the end of the fight. Signum got her shotting shield destroyed and Cypha only lost one arm ...that can be restored in a blink. She's now aware of Agito's presence and could go and smack the little smallfry with a fingerflick, then charge at Signum who got her defenses greatly reduced and concentrate the cutting power of her Divider-944 to destroy Signum's cleaver like they did to all other AEC-Equipements to date.

I bet there's an important reason for Cypha to abandon that fight.
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Old 2012-06-20, 11:53   Link #6263
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Touma is the answer.
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Old 2012-06-20, 11:54   Link #6264
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Touma is the answer.
Mhhh... probably. Maybe Cypha tought Tohma will be mad at her if she injured Signum heavily so she decided to spare her this time.
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Old 2012-06-20, 13:12   Link #6265
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If that were the case she wouldn't have fought her at all. Those swords aren't exactly designed for not making severe wounds.

And I love how Signum beats her in a fight, something you wanted to happen, and you still twist it into her being weak. You're such a dickhead.
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Old 2012-06-20, 13:22   Link #6266
Akiyoshi
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If that were the case she wouldn't have fought her at all. Those swords aren't exactly designed for not making severe wounds.
You can severely wound someone without actially killing it, just ask Terminator xD!

Knowing Cypha she probably tought this will be just as easy as the last time and while finding some resistance she realized it will be impossible to defeat Signum without endangering her life due to the latter's stubborness so she decided to leave the fight at the first chance.

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And I love how Signum beats her in a fight, something you wanted to happen, and you still twist it into her being weak.
Oh, i find the moment slightly satysfing as well but the implication that Cypha is still stronger than Signum remains and she didn't managed to "win" as Cypha fleed. To be fair is not entirely Signum's fault, AEC-Equipement is crappy by nature and the Blazing General had lost part of her strenght due to injuries.
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Old 2012-06-20, 14:59   Link #6267
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Cypha only won because of anti-magic the first time (Signum was showing her the business before she reacted with her Divider without resorting to her more powerful attacks), where's this "implication" Cypha's stronger than Signum? Fate fought Cypha without getting a scratch and Signum was dominate in the last chapter. Cypha just has an inflated ego from stomping weaklings.
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Old 2012-06-20, 15:07   Link #6268
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I've seen too much struggling from Signum on the last chapter to consider she was "dominating" the fight, Cypha demonstrated to actually be still stronger than Signum's AEc-enhaced defenses by cutting trough the barrier activated by Agito and the shooting shield. Signum hit Cypha several times in the abdomen with "silver bullets" but those didn't even slowed her in any way and only managed to piss her off. At the end Cypha even destroyed that shield by crushing it with her bare hand. The good part is that Cypha also has to put effort into achieving all of that but Signum hardly "dominated" her. In fact, Signum's dominance was more clear on Ch. 6 when she proved to be more than a match to Cypha while on equal conditions.

Thing is they aren't on equal conditions yet. AEC-Equipement is too frail to keep in battle against dividers for long and Signum's body is now weaker due to unrecovered injuries and possible permanent sequels.

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Cypha just has an inflated ego from stomping weaklings.
Well, she stompped Signum earlier xDU
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Old 2012-06-20, 15:15   Link #6269
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Because her AEC is not up to par,, they warned her and she didn't listen xD
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Old 2012-06-20, 15:20   Link #6270
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New theory: Aki is secretly a Cypha fanboy and is using his former love for Signum as a coverup to try and appear legitimate when dissing her.

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Well, from a certain standpoint, yeah this fight was less one-sided for both fighters. I just say Signum looked less powerfull and imposing here than in Ch. 6 but well, after being beaten so hard i guess it's a natural consequence to lose some of your awesomeness in the process.
Opinions. Subjective. Etc.

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But it was implied Cypha is still stronger and tougher than her and the only thing standing between Signum and another beating is the AEC-Equipement she's holding ...and even that got ultimately crushed by Cypha's bare hands with Signum barely escaping with her internal organs intact. So, in resume, it's implied Cypha can destroy her on an equal fight by virtue of being physically superior.
And the AEC equipment actually doing what it was designed for is... bad now?

Blah blah equal fight. No. That'd require Cypha to ditch her divider as well. In which case the battle isn't as clear cut as you imply.

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More likely that will be her answer. I wonder if Signum was close to hit or discover soem important weakpoint in Cypha's body or powers because otherwise Cypha just had the upper hand at the end of the fight. Signum got her shotting shield destroyed and Cypha only lost one arm ...that can be restored in a blink. She's now aware of Agito's presence and could go and smack the little smallfry with a fingerflick, then charge at Signum who got her defenses greatly reduced and concentrate the cutting power of her Divider-944 to destroy Signum's cleaver like they did to all other AEC-Equipements to date.

I bet there's an important reason for Cypha to abandon that fight.
'cept Signum's sword may be more powerful now that they've had time to tweak the technology? Do note, for example, that Fate's sword didn't break either. And she was fighting an axe wielder.
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Old 2012-06-20, 15:24   Link #6271
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@Keroko: he wouldn't have asked me to get Laevantine otherwise.
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Old 2012-06-20, 15:43   Link #6272
Akiyoshi
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New theory: Aki is secretly a Cypha fanboy and is using his former love for Signum as a coverup to try and appear legitimate when dissing her.
Doubtful, Cypha is just as lame for struggling so much against an injured and weaker opponent(the same she stompped while on perfect condition before to boot). Shame on her xDU

If there's a danger for me developing secret fanboyism over someone, that would be Curren cause she's invincible and badass xD

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Opinions. Subjective. Etc.
Agreed, that's in the eye of the beholder xD

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
And the AEC equipment actually doing what it was designed for is... bad now?
Not mission goal-wise but talks bad about Signum's skills and overall quality as a fighter.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Blah blah equal fight. No. That'd require Cypha to ditch her divider as well. In which case the battle isn't as clear cut as you imply.
Signum is hopelessly outmatched in a fistfight with Cypha as Cypha can break supposedly durability-enhaced shields with her bare hands and take divider sword slashes to the neck without even a scratch or flinch. I now full-healed Signum packs some serious punch, tough, as she was able to cut trough Cypha's tough-as-hell body, even cracking Laevatein's blade in the process (it's a miracle her arm or wrist didn't broke as well). Still she isn't able to fix broken bones as quickly as Cypha, it will be more or less like Piccolo VS. 2nd form Cell.


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'cept Signum's sword may be more powerful now that they've had time to tweak the technology? Do note, for example, that Fate's sword didn't break either. And she was fighting an axe wielder.
Fate's swords aren't made by Caledfwlch Techniques and are also made from the original Bardiche's body which could explain their effectiveness, durability and overall awesomeness xD! AEC-Equipements have demonstranted time after time to be uncapable to compete with Divider in terms of durability, even in this very fight Caro's Fortress-shields got sliced by an unreacted divider sword, as i mentioned Cypha was able to defeat Signum's shield by sheer brute strenght, and it was the part of her equipement whose purpouse is to block attacks which is a bad omen for that cleaver-thing (i can't see that thing as a "sword" by any means xDU) in battle against a reacted divider dual wielding Cypha.
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Last edited by Akiyoshi; 2012-06-20 at 15:55.
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Old 2012-06-20, 17:00   Link #6273
Keroko
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Not mission goal-wise but talks bad about Signum's skills and overall quality as a fighter.
Er... how so? Because it's a weapon designed to kill eclipse infected? Weapons tend to be designed to kill things. That's what they are for. Specific weapons have specific designs often with tweaks for specialist purposes. Warhammers are good for dealing with armor, halbers are excellent anti-cavalry in addition to their intended design to deal with pikemen.

Even Laevateine's design is to efficiently fights mages while providing aditional support for mid- to long ranges of combat in case the attacker draws distance.

So please, do explain to me how her new equipment 'talks bad' about her overall skills.

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Signum is hopelessly outmatched in a fistfight with Cypha as Cypha can break supposedly durability-enhaced shields with her bare hands and take divider sword slashes to the neck without even a scratch or flinch. I now full-healed Signum packs some serious punch, tough, as she was able to cut trough Cypha's tough-as-hell body, even cracking Laevatein's blade in the process (it's a miracle her arm or wrist didn't broke as well). Still she isn't able to fix broken bones as quickly as Cypha, it will be more or less like Piccolo VS. 2nd form Cell.
And all this even unreacted?

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Fate's swords aren't made by Caledfwlch Techniques and are also made from the original Bardiche's body which could explain their effectiveness, durability and overall awesomeness xD! AEC-Equipements have demonstranted time after time to be uncapable to compete with Divider in terms of durability, even in this very fight Caro's Fortress-shields got sliced by an unreacted divider sword, as i mentioned Cypha was able to defeat Signum's shield by sheer brute strenght, and it was the part of her equipement whose purpouse is to block attacks which is a bad omen for that cleaver-thing (i can't see that thing as a "sword" by any means xDU) in battle against a reacted divider dual wielding Cypha.
Yet still increased Signum's defense to the point where the attack that previously nearly tore her in four now only scratches her. Granted, it's not full guard, but Signum's not the one who lost her arm. Again.

As for the sword... can't get a good look at it, but meh. Fate's is bigger.
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Old 2012-06-20, 17:21   Link #6274
Akiyoshi
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Er... how so? Because it's a weapon designed to kill eclipse infected? Weapons tend to be designed to kill things. That's what they are for. Specific weapons have specific designs often with tweaks for specialist purposes. Warhammers are good for dealing with armor, halbers are excellent anti-cavalry in addition to their intended design to deal with pikemen.

Even Laevateine's design is to efficiently fights mages while providing aditional support for mid- to long ranges of combat in case the attacker draws distance.

So please, do explain to me how her new equipment 'talks bad' about her overall skills.
Laevatein is a general purpouse sword with three modes able to fill the basic needs of a magical warrior like her. Signum choose and work with each of those forms with varying degrees of skill and success to great effect in most cases (using Nanoha's attack to set up the otherwise very unpractical Bogenform, for example), it's shape, design and versati˝lity fits well with Signum's fightstyle and allow for a flexible and powerfull array of moves and combos. while Cypha is certainly stronger and mroe resillent she was totally overwhelmed by Signum's skill and speed during the first half of their first encounter.

Her new AEC-Equipement on the other hand is bigger and clumsier, it lacks Laevatein's versatility and disallow Signum to fight at her usual level of skill and speed (altough that something also has to do with her weakened condition as well) during this fight she fought Cypha more as a Mighty Glacier than a Lightning Bruiser as she was renowed in past battles. Unable to avoid Cypha and forced to be constantly on the defensive relying almost completely on the performance of her new equipement instead of her own skills and virtues as a warrior. It was like Obi-Wan using a gun against General Grievous: effective but lame.


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And all this even unreacted?
Apparently yes, or at least most of it. Cypha regenerated her lost arm without any visible effort before reacting, Signum felt and commented on the hardness of her body right after chopping her arm off and seeing Laevatein's blade cracking. Signum have enough strenght to send a teenage girl flying around 3 meters away while holding back and it's implied she could even damage solid concrete if serious but Cypha's body seems to be literally harder than freaking steel. So yeah it won't be a good idea to fight an unarmed battle against a Huckebein.

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Yet still increased Signum's defense to the point where the attack that previously nearly tore her in four now only scratches her. Granted, it's not full guard, but Signum's not the one who lost her arm. Again.
Signum avoided heavier damage because this time she wised up and decided to actually try to DODGE the attack instead of, you know, staying still waiting to be quadrasected xDU Signum still got damaged but thanks to a timely move and Agito's help she was able to save her vitals.

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As for the sword... can't get a good look at it, but meh. Fate's is bigger.
It's not the size(altough it is influential), it's the shape. Check closely the shape, size and direction of the AEC-Cleaver closely. The handgrip/hilt is curve and on the opposite side of a curved blade, the thing is help more as a guillotine than as a proper sword, instead of a straight handgrip like Laevatein's who allows the usual maneuverability. With such a design Signum is more limites to do linear slashes rather than fence and do her usuall skilled sword maneuvers. The shooter shield compensates the lack of versatility but not for much and Signum's sword proficency became so limited that she's now almost completely reliant on the shield, using the "silver bullets" to limit the opponets moves until she can deal a big slash. Unlike Laevatein, that AEC-Cleaver thing works more like a sharpened club than anything.
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Old 2012-06-20, 17:36   Link #6275
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Laevatein is a general purpouse sword with three modes able to fill the basic needs of a magical warrior like her.
I almost stopped reading here. No. Not just no, but... NO. That is bullshit logic and you know it. Laevateine is a unique weapon designed specifically for Signum's fighting style.

Notice that? It was designed to fulfill a particular need. As does this weapon.

And big and clumsy? Are we really pulling that argument in the face of Fate's giant frigging zamber or Vita's gargantuan hammer? Really, how many times do I have to warn people not to get me started on the realism on Nanohaverse's weaponry? First rule of Nanohaverse weaponry: It's shape in no way negatively affects it's efficiency. Ever.

And Signum was never a lightning bruiser. Fate is a lightning bruiser, and she described Signum as the exact mighty glacier you somehow call negatively now.

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Apparently yes, or at least most of it. Cypha regenerated her lost arm without any visible effort before reacting, Signum felt and commented on the hardness of her body right after chopping her arm off and seeing Laevatein's blade cracking. Signum have enough strenght to send a teenage girl flying around 3 meters away while holding back and it's implied she could even damage solid concrete if serious but Cypha's body seems to be literally harder than freaking steel. So yeah it won't be a good idea to fight an unarmed battle against a Huckebein.
Granted.

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Signum avoided heavier damage because this time she wised up and decided to actually try to DODGE the attack instead of, you know, staying still waiting to be quadrasected xDU Signum still got damaged but thanks to a timely move and Agito's help she was able to save her vitals.
So Signum was fighting smart. This is bad.... how?
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Old 2012-06-20, 18:06   Link #6276
Akiyoshi
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Laevateine is a unique weapon designed specifically for Signum's fighting style.
We don't know that for sure but yeah, it seems Laevatein was made to fit Signum's style, a fast, powerfull and gracefull style that allows her to fight with strenght and flexibility.

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And big and clumsy? Are we really pulling that argument in the face of Fate's giant frigging zamber or Vita's gargantuan hammer? Really, how many times do I have to warn people not to get me started on the realism on Nanohaverse's weaponry? First rule of Nanohaverse weaponry: It's shape in no way negatively affects it's efficiency. Ever.
Said rule seems to be gone in FORCE as suddenly, mass and shape of weapons seems to suddenly matter. War Hammer is heavily limited compared with Graf Eisen, a fact that even Vita acknowledged. Weapons breaking was never that big of a deal in past seasons but now it suddenly is, specially with AEC-Equipement as those seem to lack the self-repair function devices have as also being unable to adopt pocket sized forms making them unpractical and in the need to be transported to the battlefield trough alternative transport methods. Fate's big blades lacked weight because those were lightblades made of magic.

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And Signum was never a lightning bruiser. Fate is a lightning bruiser, and she described Signum as the exact mighty glacier you somehow call negatively now.
Signum IS a Lightning Bruiser (or was), by virtue of being one of the stronger AND faster warriors on the show. Her speed is only second to Fate, Erio and Tre who are extremly fast characters closer to the Fragile Speedster Powerset (and she's still perfectly capable to keep up with them in a fight despite their uncanny speed). Unlike them, Signum is capable of withstand a lot more damage and is much more agressive in melee. Nanoha and Cypha, two pretty fast fighters in their own right, got blinded by Signum's speed. In fact, her speed is one of the reasons as of why she did so well against Cypha despite using a magical sword on first place.

As i mentioned Signum got tranformed into a Fragile Speedster due to the new rules of the FORCE setting. But the new powerset granted to her by the AEC-Equipement put herself between Mighty Glacier(with shield) and Glass Cannon(without shield). Signum have a very strong body and powerfull magical defenses coupled with speed and strenght but against Eclipse half of those attributes get nullified.

It's specially jarring because Signum's new weapons force her to adopt a different style instead of enhacing what she's very good at. Like Erio with a Strike Cannon (seriously, what were they thinking!?). Signum's new equipement limits her to just shooting and do linear slashes. It's almost as lazy(if not lazier) as Nanoha's Fortress unit.

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So Signum was fighting smart. This is bad.... how?
I didn't say it was bad. In fact, i cannot blame her because with such dangerous opponent's and with such lame weapons at hand, fighting smart is Signum's only option xDU
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Old 2012-06-21, 06:32   Link #6277
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Old 2012-06-21, 06:36   Link #6278
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You're not allowed to ask that.
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Old 2012-06-21, 06:38   Link #6279
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Oupps then
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Old 2012-06-21, 07:04   Link #6280
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Well speak of the devil...

Just read chapter 20. Thoma tells Silver Cross to "read the atmosphere" (ie, consider the mood) but the book just goes "No toxic elements detected in atmosphere" Then it just ignores Thoma's retort.
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