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Old 2013-01-21, 21:14   Link #7081
Sansker
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Yes. But that is because I don’t think a mystery is helping the plot here. At least now how they deal with the story in this boring office like environment. Also it doesn’t bother in made clear any motivation for the bad guys or have a goal to move forward so they are all jumping around for what it seems not good reasons. Here I say this is not a proper set for mystery on the same sense as a mystery novel will be. I mean some plot twist and surprises are welcome but how about a villain with a clear goal? That will be nice.
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Old 2013-01-21, 22:36   Link #7082
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So, rather then them stand around in an office and discuss the ongoing investigation, you'd rather watch a bunch of scientists stand around in a lab, looking at the book and divider, and not finding anything?
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Old 2013-01-22, 10:22   Link #7083
Sansker
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No really, I will prefer if they just drop the office setting, burn the place to the ground, grab their spaceship and boldly go where no man has gone before. Yes that will be a little stupid but has to be more interesting than watching the same place over and over while they do nothing but train and fill reports. Rather than just getting things and not reaching any conclusion maybe they could. You are assuming they will never find out something about the Silver Cross when they can really do it. Something more exciting than this, is all I’m saying.

I mean when I hear there is a problem I don’t want to see them put a commission to write a report on what is going on, I want to see them send a team and go to fix the problem. And I know the SD6 should be that team but, let’s be honest, the office part is not fun.
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Old 2013-01-22, 11:00   Link #7084
Akiyoshi
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No really, I will prefer if they just drop the office setting, burn the place to the ground, grab their spaceship and boldly go where no man has gone before. Yes that will be a little stupid but has to be more interesting than watching the same place over and over while they do nothing but train and fill reports. Rather than just getting things and not reaching any conclusion maybe they could. You are assuming they will never find out something about the Silver Cross when they can really do it. Something more exciting than this, is all I’m saying.

I mean when I hear there is a problem I don’t want to see them put a commission to write a report on what is going on, I want to see them send a team and go to fix the problem. And I know the SD6 should be that team but, let’s be honest, the office part is not fun.
I must admit Sansker has a point there, even shows that focuses on investigation (Law & Order SVU, CSI: Miami, Criminal Minds and the like) doesn't spend THAT much of their screen time in the office and the short times spent there is to expose important information or to show developement and/or plot devices for the case in progress.

I don't think it will be to the extremes of "burn the office" but i would like they just summarize those scenes to only the needed amount to show important stuff then shift back again to the action xD
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Last edited by Akiyoshi; 2013-01-22 at 11:10.
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Old 2013-01-22, 11:09   Link #7085
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Yes, burning the office sounds extreme but you get my point. I am not asking for them to just go to war with an army of mages (Even if that will be awesome) but just… something else.

Again this is what we get but just because of it doesn’t make it good. I mean the setting is kind of like what I was asking but the way is done feels boring.
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Old 2013-01-22, 12:36   Link #7086
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Hayate: "Okay! We're all in the ship, let's go!"
Lucino: "okay, what's our course?"
Hayate: "Course?"
Nanoha: "Where are we going, Hayate?"
Hayate: "Um, out there? Where no man has gone before!"
Fate: "But, that means we'll be going somewhere the Huckbein aren't. What about the investigation? What preparing to fight and capture them when they appear again? Don't we wantto be ready to protect people so more towns aren't slaughtered?"
Hayate: "But that's not exciting, Miss 'logic and reason!' The people wanna see us out there, flying around in our spaceship! And that sounds like fun to me!" *runs around with arms outstretched, making airplane flying noises*
Nanoha: "What happened to her?"
Fate: "She took advice from an internet forum poster."
Nanoha: "Oooooh..."
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Old 2013-01-22, 14:01   Link #7087
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I think it's more what they're spending time on that's the problem, not that they're actually trying to explain something important.

I'd be fine with it if that info-dumping about the Raptors amounted to something afterward, but they got taken out just so Cypha could rescue Touma, and then have a fight with Signum that didn't really mean much. Just like the AEC weapons' contributions have all been minimal so far.
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Old 2013-01-22, 14:14   Link #7088
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Considering the series isn't over, we don't know what will turn out to be important. And I thought we established the AEC weapons were a work in progress? Despite that, they've somewhat useful. Vita and Nanoha blew holes in the ship to get a team on board. Fate went toe-to-toe with Deville, and Subaru's glove worked.

As always, I'll refrain from commenting on untranslated chapters. But remember... the raptors learn. Even if trashed early, tbeir experiences are shared with the hive. It might be interesting if the raptors became the true threat.

Edit: the vast majority of past chapters have been action, with "stuff happening." Hell, vol 2 and 3 were practically all action. So the moment we get a couple of relatively quiet chapters, we complain? A series can't be all action. Even A's had quite a bit of down time. And next chapter or two looks like stuff happening with Hucks and Grendels.

Last edited by Kaijo; 2013-01-22 at 15:02.
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Old 2013-01-22, 14:58   Link #7089
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Considering the series isn't over, we don't know what will turn out to be important. And I thought we established the AEC weapons were a work in progress? Despite that, they've somewhat useful. Vita and Nanoha blew holes in the ship to get a team on board. Fate went toe-to-toe with Deville, and Subaru's glove worked.

As always, I'll refrain from commenting on untranslated chapters. But remember... the raptors learn. Even if trashed early, tbeir experiences are shared with the hive. It might be interesting if the raptors became the true threat.
Considering this is Nanoha, and the bad guys are rarely if every all BAD... I can somehow see this happening. Especially given the TSAB's track record with trying out new technology.

Looking at you Jail.
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Old 2013-01-22, 16:25   Link #7090
Sansker
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Hayate: "Okay! We're all in the ship, let's go!"
Lucino: "okay, what's our course?"
Hayate: "Course?"
Nanoha: "Where are we going, Hayate?"
Hayate: "Um, out there? Where no man has gone before!"
Fate: "But, that means we'll be going somewhere the Huckbein aren't. What about the investigation? What preparing to fight and capture them when they appear again? Don't we wantto be ready to protect people so more towns aren't slaughtered?"
Hayate: "But that's not exciting, Miss 'logic and reason!' The people wanna see us out there, flying around in our spaceship! And that sounds like fun to me!" *runs around with arms outstretched, making airplane flying noises*
Nanoha: "What happened to her?"
Fate: "She took advice from an internet forum poster."
Nanoha: "Oooooh..."

I say “boldly go” not just “go”. Typical of Hayate she can’t do anything right
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Old 2013-01-22, 18:13   Link #7091
Justin_Brett
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As always, I'll refrain from commenting on untranslated chapters. But remember... the raptors learn. Even if trashed early, tbeir experiences are shared with the hive. It might be interesting if the raptors became the true threat.
They shouldn't have to learn something as obvious as that. Our human law enforcement has better procedures.
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Old 2013-01-22, 18:32   Link #7092
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Hayate: "Okay! We're all in the ship, let's go!"
Lucino: "okay, what's our course?"
Hayate: "Course?"
Nanoha: "Where are we going, Hayate?"
Hayate: "Um, out there? Where no man has gone before!"
Fate: "But, that means we'll be going somewhere the Huckbein aren't. What about the investigation? What preparing to fight and capture them when they appear again? Don't we wantto be ready to protect people so more towns aren't slaughtered?"
Hayate: "But that's not exciting, Miss 'logic and reason!' The people wanna see us out there, flying around in our spaceship! And that sounds like fun to me!" *runs around with arms outstretched, making airplane flying noises*
Nanoha: "What happened to her?"
Fate: "She took advice from an internet forum poster."
Nanoha: "Oooooh..."
I would pay to see that, it soudns awesome xD!

...what? it worked for the Great Gurren Brigade xD!

But, jokes aside the problem was never the fact the expose things and spent time on investigation, it's more the unecessary amount of time dedicate to that sort of stuff when simply a short glimpse would be enough to imply their doing investigation work. When a character is depicted taking a meal we usually take just a little scene of him/her eating their stuff and commenting something ...what we have here is the entire process of the character cleaning their hands, sitting on the table, playing with the beans, asking for salt, talking about it's day, finishing their meal and then order the plates while taking those to the sink. It's that horrible lack of dynamism in the plot that hurts the "toughtful" moments.

All the good mistery movies keep a health dose of action between investigation scenes that aren't unecessarily specific/detailed.

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Considering the series isn't over, we don't know what will turn out to be important. And I thought we established the AEC weapons were a work in progress? Despite that, they've somewhat useful. Vita and Nanoha blew holes in the ship to get a team on board. Fate went toe-to-toe with Deville, and Subaru's glove worked.
A bit picky here but, Fate is not using a lame AEC-unit, she's using her very own super awesome device Bardiche who is by far the most successful (aside of Isis's Perfume Grab who is also a device xD) in battling EC Drivers to date. And Subaru's unit is a special case as it was custom made to work with her exclusive abilities (or any other individual who posses a "Oscillating Breaker" Inherent Skill which are ...Ginga and Nove at max? xDU).

Again it's not about the contents but more about the way those are presented. Kaijo and Sansker are going a bit to the extremes. Pure, mindless action is only good within certain kind of shows ...and Nanoha is not one of those. The characters need strong motivations and reasons for doing stuff otherwise they'll find themselves fighting shallow battles which only drag things around instead of adding to the excitement (as it was the case with Tohma VS. Everyone fight and Signum VS. Cypha Round 2 ...the other fights rank from average to cool ...at least in my book xDU). A healthy balance beween exposition, action and the ocasional comedy/slice of life is required to add to the experience (ViVid suffer heavy from that, it's either all fighting or all diabethic sweetness, not to the point of being jarring but it distracts too much from the important stuff).
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Old 2013-01-22, 18:49   Link #7093
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And that is what I want: balance. But we get too much of one side or the other
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Old 2013-01-22, 19:11   Link #7094
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Quote:
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They shouldn't have to learn something as obvious as that. Our human law enforcement has better procedures.
Maybe we're on a different page, but... I was referring to the Raptors learning how opponent's fight. Sure, during the first round, you may scrap some of them. But then they pass on what they learned, and the next batch avoids or counters your attacks.

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what we have here is the entire process of the character cleaning their hands, sitting on the table, playing with the beans, asking for salt, talking about it's day, finishing their meal and then order the plates while taking those to the sink. It's that horrible lack of dynamism in the plot that hurts the "toughtful" moments.
I don't recall seeing any of that. Where was this passing of the salt?

Quote:
All the good mistery movies keep a health dose of action between investigation scenes that aren't unecessarily specific/detailed.
And I pointed out that greater than 50% of this manga so far is action. Hell, from Thoma fighting Veyron, to the final recovery, covered 2+ volumes. 50% split between action and downtime is fairly typical, so I don't see what the problem is.
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Old 2013-01-22, 19:31   Link #7095
Akiyoshi
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I don't recall seeing any of that. Where was this passing of the salt?
It was a vivid metaphor but if we want to be specific we've spent most of Ch. 16-19 "passing the salt" xDU and then again during Ch. 21 and 22. I could include Ch. 13-15 but those were mroe like "stuck in Namek" sort of thing xDU

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And I pointed out that greater than 50% of this manga so far is action. Hell, from Thoma fighting Veyron, to the final recovery, covered 2+ volumes. 50% split between action and downtime is fairly typical, so I don't see what the problem is.
An entire Volume (about an entire year of publications) was dedicated to the "stuck in Namek" part of the story xDU Were we have some decent short fights and one big and long excessive one (the other extreme, too much action without any good reason ...ok fine, they were rescuing Tohma but he was in puppet mode most of the time).
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Old 2013-01-22, 19:44   Link #7096
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You know, it just hit me... the Raptors are potentially the largest threat, being able to absorb all of your combat data and then use it against you. Their only real weakness is a limited battery.

And Hardis is working on the Eclipse for a new, clean energy source.

What if Hardis's corp is secretly working with Caledfwlch (makers of the Raptors)?

Hardis is infecting people with the Eclipse, in order to start up trouble, creating a threat for the Bureau. And along comes Caled with useful countermeasures. Two corps, profiting off the creation of a war.... a war Curren doesn't want. She'd prefer her family to stay unnoticed, out of the limelight, and Hardis is threatening that. In that light, everything starts to make sense.

Edit: Lily, now having named some raptors... which will be the ones that get infected or taken over by Hardis and/or the Eclipse. Some of them will "die" (which will add the tragic angle) but maybe one survives, and becomes one of the team. Team Nanoha gets a robot!
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Old 2013-01-22, 19:49   Link #7097
Akiyoshi
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You know, it just hit me... the Raptors are potentially the largest threat, being able to absorb all of your combat data and then use it against you. Their only real weakness is a limited battery.
Not really, if the battery were the only problem they wouldn't ended up trashed so badly by Carter Grendel of all people xDU So yeah, the goofball of the series managed to trounce 3 Raptor units and two uber-powerfull warriors AT ONCE all by himself xDU

They seem to have the same durability as the AEC-units (aka. not that great xDU). Which is also anothe rthing that needs to be inmproved.

Quote:
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And Hardis is working on the Eclipse for a new, clean energy source.

What if Hardis's corp is secretly working with Caledfwlch (makers of the Raptors)?
That's a pretty old theory but yeah, i agree on that one still being possible. My take on said theory is that they're giving crap-quality equipement to Section Six on purpouse to gather their combat data and then release their TRUE units completely updated and upgraded and then those Raptors will be the REAL threat xD

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Hardis is infecting people with the Eclipse, in order to start up trouble, creating a threat for the Bureau. And along comes Caled with useful countermeasures. Two corps, profiting off the creation of a war.... a war Curren doesn't want. She'd prefer her family to stay unnoticed, out of the limelight, and Hardis is threatening that. In that light, everything starts to make sense.
Yup, word by word one of the earliest disciussed theories on this (and the past) thread, let's see if this get to come into play.
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Old 2013-01-22, 20:07   Link #7098
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Old 2013-01-22, 20:12   Link #7099
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Not really, if the battery were the only problem they wouldn't ended up trashed so badly by Carter Grendel of all people xDU So yeah, the goofball of the series managed to trounce 3 Raptor units and two uber-powerfull warriors AT ONCE all by himself xDU
Remember, though, they gather that combat data and send that to the rest. If said goofball were to fight them again, I'd bet he'd lose. Once a computer knows your abilities, it can then program around them... sorta like a computer beating you at chess. Durability isn't a problem if you can't hit them, because they are predicting your moves.

Add to the fact that there are tons of these, all working together perfectly (maybe even sacrificing a few of them, in order to allow others to hit your weakness and defeat you). Yeah, they're not great now, but never underestimate a computer's learning capability in a sci-fi story.
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Old 2013-01-22, 20:15   Link #7100
Akiyoshi
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Remember, though, they gather that combat data and send that to the rest. If said goofball were to fight them again, I'd bet he'd lose. Once a computer knows your abilities, it can then program around them... sorta like a computer beating you at chess. Durability isn't a problem if you can't hit them, because they are predicting your moves.

Add to the fact that there are tons of these, all working together perfectly (maybe even sacrificing a few of them, in order to allow others to hit your weakness and defeat you). Yeah, they're not great now, but never underestimate a computer's learning capability in a sci-fi story.
The only way i can see normal Raptors as a threat is by numbers, yeah they're red shirt level but if they send them by dozens (a good one hundred will be a good number) then their targets will really have a hard day battling them.

Fortunately, a cool villain or awesome hero beating the crap out of machines programed to counter then is a well known shounen-cliche that i would like to see again xD

If what people comment here about Carter Grendel is true then his Carter-level combat data won't be of much help while facing ..say ...the Huckebein xD
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