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Old 2013-02-26, 12:46   Link #7561
Kurohane
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Sansker, you're still talking about this. As Rising Sragon stated before they saved Lily and Isis from berserk Thoma, offered him help with the Eclipse and still have it open, Veyron and Arnage recued a mistreated Reactor Plug. We haven't seen them do much, but we haven't seen that much of them yet. Give it time.

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Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
But when it comes down to murder innocent bystanders because you want to, I think is already beyond the point you can talk sense in to them and you need to take actions which Thoma doesn't seem like to.
When have they ever done that?
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Old 2013-02-26, 12:47   Link #7562
Justin_Brett
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Stella's pretty much confirmed due to her loli status.

Arnage's a pretty safe bet too.

Deville and Fortis we know little about. However with the former being a Zafira in all but name, and the later preferring to chase of the TSAB rather than just obliterate them then and there, those two stand a chance as well.

Veyron is the stereotypical "Look at me being all cool while doing morally questionable things" character. Those almost always turn over a new leaf.

Curren is... a wild card, but as the person with the plan and the most killing restraint shown of any infected bar Thoma, still a decent chance at redemption.

Which leaves Cypha, who has been enjoying her situation quite readily all things considered, and Sonica, who we know very little about so far.

Or so I like to believe.
I meant more that they might have two lolis, since Curren did that shapeshifting in the most recent chapter. At least that's the reason that would make the most sense to me, otherwise it's just kinda random.

I actually think Fortis' attitude so far makes him by far the most suspicious member. Wouldn't be surprised if he has his own agenda.
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Old 2013-02-26, 12:51   Link #7563
Akiyoshi
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uhm... in my humble and not very respected opinion, it comes down to the Wolks and Fate showing more willingness to be saved.

The Wolkenritter made clear with their actipns they really don't want to do what they're doing almost since the beginning and soon after they gave strong hint of wishing they would have a better solution at hands as also flat out showing signs of sympathy towards the heroes, somethimg neither the Huck nor the Numbers shown.

Fate was pretty much a sweet child crying for help during all of season one xDU

I think Keroko's standpoint soun very reasonable, it's Tohma the one people wants to see succeding in saving the Huck rathe than seeing the killer family showing signs of redemption themselves.
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Old 2013-02-26, 12:52   Link #7564
Kurohane
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Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
I actually think Fortis' attitude so far makes him by far the most suspicious member. Wouldn't be surprised if he has his own agenda.
In the movie 2nd promotion with Force, Fortis is the only Huckebein not drawn with them. Also, he's the only one who doesn't didn't use the sister honorific when Curren arrived in the first battle. Yeah, I feel the same way.
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Old 2013-02-26, 12:53   Link #7565
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He was in that CG of them in Gears, though.
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Old 2013-02-26, 12:56   Link #7566
Sansker
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Originally Posted by Kurohane View Post
Sansker, you're still talking about this. As Rising Sragon stated before they saved Lily and Isis from berserk Thoma, offered him help with the Eclipse and still have it open, Veyron and Arnage recued a mistreated Reactor Plug. We haven't seen them do much, but we haven't seen that much of them yet. Give it time.
Time they had enough and those things there are just the Hucks looking to protect their own interest. They kill woman and children that don't represent a tread to them because they are just assholes. I think this is proof they Hucks were not think to be "good guys" when the manga started. Also Punisher only kills the guilty ones, doesn't just kill everything that cross his path so the Hucks assaulting companies and villages to kill everyone is not good redeemable qualities.

Any time we say something “good” the Hückebein family did is either not doing or they get a benefit. That doesn’t show good nature, just show them being able to use other approach to their problems and needs. Good actions are those they do in favor of others and without expecting any benefit to come out of it. Like Signum keeping Fate in her arms while waiting for someone to take her. That shows more good nature than not killing two kids because they need to take this other one to their base and this will help.

In the end here is when we look at this different, because is a different moment and different actions. The Wolkenritter did have reputation of killing but that makes the fact they don’t kill here all the more strange. Also Vita might attack Nanoha because of her hat but you forget that magic blows can be really hard and powerful but non lethal. But is how we decide to look at this.

So in the end this is how I perceive the Hückebein family so far. I hope the manga can fix this but I don’t think it will and that makes it all the less enjoyable when I see Thoma insisting on talking about the Hucks like good people. I just can’t see them as good at all.
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Old 2013-02-26, 13:00   Link #7567
Kurohane
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Fifth was in the Promotion, but not in the CG. Proof that things have progressed.

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Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
Time they had enough and those things there are just the Hucks looking to protect their own interest. They kill woman and children that don't represent a tread to them because they are just assholes. I think this is proof they Hucks were not think to be "good guys" when the manga started. Also Punisher only kills the guilty ones, doesn't just kill everything that cross his path so the Hucks assaulting companies and villages to kill everyone is not good redeemable qualities.

Any time we say something “good” the Hückebein family did is either not doing or they get a benefit. That doesn’t show good nature, just show them being able to use other approach to their problems and needs. Good actions are those they do in favor of others and without expecting any benefit to come out of it. Like Signum keeping Fate in her arms while waiting for someone to take her. That shows more good nature than not killing two kids because they need to take this other one to their base and this will help.

In the end here is when we look at this different, because is a different moment and different actions. The Wolkenritter did have reputation of killing but that makes the fact they don’t kill here all the more strange. Also Vita might attack Nanoha because of her hat but you forget that magic blows can be really hard and powerful but non lethal. But is how we decide to look at this.

So in the end this is how I perceive the Hückebein family so far. I hope the manga can fix this but I don’t think it will and that makes it all the less enjoyable when I see Thoma insisting on talking about the Hucks like good people. I just can’t see them as good at all.
It surprises me that you think they are in a situation where they can care about others. Even so, they have with other infectees like Sonica and the other branches they talk about. They must have met and helped them.
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Old 2013-02-26, 13:12   Link #7568
Sansker
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But they kill children as Cypha tells to Signum and they also kill innocent bystanders as Veyron kills 3 nuns in the church.

Kereko is right there when he says we should care about Thoma and how he tires to save them. But to be fair I don’t get Thoma at all. He doesn’t have any kind of passion or at least one that I can follow and he just seems to say and do things because the plot demands this for him. I can’t anything for him at all, I don’t like the people he is trying to say: guess how this looks for me?

You see this different, and is fine, but unless I see some changes there I will remain with my thoughts on this matter.
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Old 2013-02-26, 13:12   Link #7569
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So... anyone know where I can read the new Raws? The site I usually stopped updating for some reasons.
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Old 2013-02-26, 13:12   Link #7570
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So? That proof they were not as evil as the Hucks.
Welp, you heard it here folks. Killing a few dozen people is more evil than destroying planets and all of the humans and native species on those planets.
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Old 2013-02-26, 13:22   Link #7571
Kurohane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
But they kill children as Cypha tells to Signum and they also kill innocent bystanders as Veyron kills 3 nuns in the church.

Kereko is right there when he says we should care about Thoma and how he tires to save them. But to be fair I don’t get Thoma at all. He doesn’t have any kind of passion or at least one that I can follow and he just seems to say and do things because the plot demands this for him. I can’t anything for him at all, I don’t like the people he is trying to say: guess how this looks for me?

You see this different, and is fine, but unless I see some changes there I will remain with my thoughts on this matter.
But we don't know the circumstances behind them do we? We either hear about them, or arrive late to it. Cypha is very cynical. She knows she's a murderer. She is not gonna gloss things over saying the circumstances were responsible for her actions. In the end, it doesn't change the fact she killed people. Also, Veyron didn't admit to killing the nuns when Thoma inquired him.
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Old 2013-02-26, 13:29   Link #7572
Justin_Brett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
But they kill children as Cypha tells to Signum and they also kill innocent bystanders as Veyron kills 3 nuns in the church.

Kereko is right there when he says we should care about Thoma and how he tires to save them. But to be fair I don’t get Thoma at all. He doesn’t have any kind of passion or at least one that I can follow and he just seems to say and do things because the plot demands this for him. I can’t anything for him at all, I don’t like the people he is trying to say: guess how this looks for me?

You see this different, and is fine, but unless I see some changes there I will remain with my thoughts on this matter.
If you search Force's title in Japanese, you'll get a blog that has them, albeit in dodgy quality.
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Old 2013-02-26, 14:01   Link #7573
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
Time they had enough and those things there are just the Hucks looking to protect their own interest. They kill woman and children that don't represent a tread to them because they are just assholes. I think this is proof they Hucks were not think to be "good guys" when the manga started. Also Punisher only kills the guilty ones, doesn't just kill everything that cross his path so the Hucks assaulting companies and villages to kill everyone is not good redeemable qualities.
Said companies are re-creating and spreading Dividers and Eclipse. They really have zero reason to obliterate these companies beyond "we want them to stop."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
Good actions are those they do in favor of others and without expecting any benefit to come out of it. Like Signum keeping Fate in her arms while waiting for someone to take her. That shows more good nature than not killing two kids because they need to take this other one to their base and this will help.
I repeat: Nanoha did not know about this until she tried talking to "I want to whack your head off" Vita several times. Who showed zero sympathy, chivalry or even basic courtesy.

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Also Vita might attack Nanoha because of her hat but you forget that magic blows can be really hard and powerful but non lethal. But is how we decide to look at this.
Given that Nanoha needed healing the minute Yuuno arrived? Definitely not the non-lethal variety.

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Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
So in the end this is how I perceive the Hückebein family so far. I hope the manga can fix this but I don’t think it will and that makes it all the less enjoyable when I see Thoma insisting on talking about the Hucks like good people. I just can’t see them as good at all.
I'm not arguing that the Hucks are sympathetic, I'm arguing that singling out Thoma and calling him an idiot when the person who's name is on this series did the exact same thing is rather hypocritical.

Unless you're calling Nanoha an idiot too. Then it's fair.
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Old 2013-02-26, 15:03   Link #7574
Sansker
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Said companies are re-creating and spreading Dividers and Eclipse. They really have zero reason to obliterate these companies beyond "we want them to stop."
Still they kill innocents, and that can't just be ignored and say they are good when they do kill people they don't need to kill. Which is something I call villainous behavior. One thing is not caring your plans will cause side effects and collateral damage another is just kill those people yourself for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I repeat: Nanoha did not know about this until she tried talking to "I want to whack your head off" Vita several times. Who showed zero sympathy, chivalry or even basic courtesy.
And that was the reason Nanoha wanted to know what was going on. In the end this was about Nanoha at first, she always reach out for people and wants to understand their motives. Is part of her character. And again, Vita didn't kill anyone.


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Given that Nanoha needed healing the minute Yuuno arrived? Definitely not the non-lethal variety.
I say non lethal not inoffensive hits. Magic can cause damage that needs to be heal without causing fatal injuries. The whole magic damage thing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I'm not arguing that the Hucks are sympathetic, I'm arguing that singling out Thoma and calling him an idiot when the person who's name is on this series did the exact same thing is rather hypocritical.

Unless you're calling Nanoha an idiot too. Then it's fair.
No it isn't hypocritical when I already say that I don't see this situations as equals and stay why. You don't agree my arguments proof the situations are different but I think the facts talk by themselves. Not just because of the tone but because of the characters involve in this.

Thoma really doesn't have much reasons to like the Hückebein at all and yet he does out of some weird sensation that we never explore. I can, kind of, justify this but the story is not trying to do that. They just go for "he likes the a lot" with poor reasons consider the Hückebein already show they are cold blood killers who will destroy everything they feel is bothering them.

Back on the other seasons the characters fight and they did were aggressive to one another but Nanoha wanted to know why, what was going on and why this people suddenly attack. There was some necessity for her to understand and she wanted to know if a peaceful solution was possible specially after Fate's incident. There is something going in there beyond the fact Nanoha wants to be friends with Vita. She wants her to listen.

Thoma on the other hand already knows what is the Hückebein problem. They just want the Silver Cross, or they did, and they already show no concern over his safety or normal humans until he joins them as a Eclipse Driver. They just care about themselves and think he is one of them so they are nice to him, because they want him, not because they care about others. Yet he seems to assume this means they are good people and his general attitude towards them is what bothers me.
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Old 2013-02-26, 15:08   Link #7575
Justin_Brett
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Why are you even debating someone who just ignores your points after you state them multiple times? At least I usually addressed them.

I mean we do have an ignore function on here, even if I don't use it.
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Old 2013-02-26, 15:22   Link #7576
Rising Dragon
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I say non lethal not inoffensive hits. Magic can cause damage that needs to be heal without causing fatal injuries. The whole magic damage thing.
Yeah, when magic damage is in use. Vita was smacking her around with a spiked hammer. That's not magic damage, that's blunt force trauma.
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Old 2013-02-26, 15:33   Link #7577
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I think, at this point, we can pretty much assume the opposite of whatever Sansker says,and just stop responding to it.
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Old 2013-02-26, 15:35   Link #7578
Keroko
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Of course that the Hucks kill innocents can't be ignored, though knowing Nanoha it will be. However the point is there was a question on when we could expect to see the Hucks do something good, and there it is.

As for magic damage... Magic damage doesn't cause physical damage worth mentioning. Couple of bruises maybe, if Vivid is to be believed, and that's it. That's its entire thing. It knocks you out, and with a bit of bedrest you're okay again.

Vita killed thousands, possibly millions over the centuries of the book of darkness. Nanoha knew this. She was told the purpose of these guys. Yet she still wanted to talk to Vita, going as far as to disarm herself. Before she knew about the whole Signum shielding Fate thing. Because she wanted to be friends. Yes, she does this because she is Nanoha. And Thoma does this because he has been raised around people like Nanoha. Look at Subaru, the girl who practically raised Thoma, who's first reaction to having a streetfighter waking up in her apartment can be summarized as "Good morning, here's breakfast, let's be friends!"
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Old 2013-02-26, 15:43   Link #7579
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And Thoma does this because he has been raised around people like Nanoha. Look at Subaru, the firl who practically raised Thoma, who's first reaction to having a streetfighter waking up in her apartment can be summarized as "Good morning, here's breakfast, let's be friends!"
Or Ixy...

"Oh, you create zombies that wipe out whole worlds. Wanna be friends?"
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Old 2013-02-26, 15:45   Link #7580
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Ixy... that nickname the translators stuck with still weirds me out. I though they just called her Ix like in the sound stage.
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