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Old 2013-03-16, 05:54   Link #7681
Keroko
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So first you're going

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Being so relaint on an AEC-unit means she acknowledges Cypha is too much for her to handle so she uses the Gladiator to compensate for her flaws as a fighter.
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Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Which means the credit of the fight goes to the equipement rather than the wielder itself.
And then when Lhklan points out AEC don't work that way and only Intelligent Devices can legibly take over your body and "claim credit," you go

Quote:
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Aaaand that's why Devices are so awesome xD!
Can you not see the hypocrisy here!?
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Old 2013-03-16, 08:32   Link #7682
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Keroko, you're asking Aki, the one who hates Signum more than anyone else, to see hypocrisy?
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Old 2013-03-16, 10:30   Link #7683
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I think you are making a big deal of something that really doesn’t matter. The AEC weapons are just wrong because, to be fair, the devices were kind of like minor characters. Bardiche, Raising Heart and the others show some levels of sentient and personality that make them look great. Beyond that everyone had a unique looking weapon. Now we have mass produced guns that seems to operate on Windows 7 because all the times they just don’t work right, fail and break apart.
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Old 2013-03-16, 10:35   Link #7684
Keroko
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So it doesn't matter... yet you get involved in the debate anyway. Right.

But yeah, you are right it's a shift in tone. That doesn't immediately make them mistakes though.
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Old 2013-03-16, 10:51   Link #7685
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I mean about Akiyoshi and his look of AEC weapons and Devices. He just didn’t explain his ideas well.

You see I think one thing is seeing the devices, which again are kind of minor characters, helping their masters and protecting them and another is seeing this AEC weapons take credit for it. That doesn’t make them mistakes just by concept but on this series they are mistakes. I mean we waste time showing up how close mages can become to their devices. Fate with Bardiche, Nanoha and Raising Heart, hey even Subaru and Mach Caliber and etc. and then they just replace their devices for this things that lack those “human” elements to them. Seems cold and kind of rush movement.
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Old 2013-03-16, 10:56   Link #7686
Akiyoshi
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To be fair Sansker, the AEC-units has been improving slowly over the course of chapters, of course thse are stll frail toys compared to Dividers and previous devices (ironically, Laevatein withstood more punishment than most AEC-units before breaking) but at least has managed to allow some decent strategies against rcent enemies. The sword breaker, the gladiator and the oxtongue are a bit of an improvement over the strike cannon, the war hammer and the fortress. I still dislike those for the reasons you mentioned, though.

While devices can take control of the users, they do that as an emergemcy measure, also they are tailor mafe to suit the particular skills, personality, powers and fightstyles and are able to gradually increase their efficiency by actually learning how to cooperate with their masters over time. So ok, the TSAB probably aims for a way to develope cheap weaponry that can be mass produced so they can give it to as many soldiers as possible but at least they could focus a bit more on the units gven to their elites ..
.as i've said, synch devices with the AEC-unit (like Raising Heart did) looks like a neat solution while 5th gen devices are being produced for everyone.
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Old 2013-03-16, 11:41   Link #7687
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Aki almost never explains his ideas well, Sansker.
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Old 2013-03-16, 11:48   Link #7688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
While devices can take control of the users, they do that as an emergemcy measure, also they are tailor mafe to suit the particular skills, personality, powers and fightstyles and are able to gradually increase their efficiency by actually learning how to cooperate with their masters over time.
This is only for Intelligent Devices. Most of the TSAB uses the non-intelligent Storage Devices.
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Old 2013-03-16, 11:54   Link #7689
Akiyoshi
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Which is why said it will be nice to focus said effort on the Elites who wiled the Devices with sentinent capabilities.

Even then, thanks to Chrono we can attest Storage Device are still capable of performing complex functions and while they're not as proactive as intelligent devices they can follow orders by themselves while most AEC-units are trigger based.

Mhhh... looking closer to Ch. 24 and having a bit more of insight Agito seems to have a partial control over the functions of the Gladiator-unit or at least the shooting shield as she was able to activate a command for an energy forcefield (not that it was too useful or anything as Cypha destroyed it pretty easily but still). So i guess it's not THAT bad after all. Not as good as having Laevatein's input but nice nontheless.
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Old 2013-03-16, 12:09   Link #7690
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Define complex functions. All I recall S2U doing was call out a spell name once or twice. That means nothing. Storage Devices have never been shown to be able to follow orders by themselves.
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Old 2013-03-16, 15:14   Link #7691
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Storage Devices are more used than Intelligent Devices because Storage Devices are cheaper (think basic calculator vs high spec graphic calculator vs. computer vs super computer for Storage vs Armed vs Intelligent vs Unison Devices) and they process calculations quickly. They can say some basic stuff, but they don't do much beyond one basic function and help calculate spells quickly.

Armed Devices, are, of course, meant to take and deal more punishment and intelligent devices can refuse to work with a user (see RH with Nanoha vs with Yuuno) fully. And Unison Devices can take over a user.

So, really, AEC equipment is really just modified storage devices from what I can tell.
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Old 2013-03-16, 15:32   Link #7692
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On Yuuno's case I think was because he didn't have enough power to use RH.
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Old 2013-03-16, 15:37   Link #7693
Akiyoshi
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On Yuuno's case I think was because he didn't have enough power to use RH.
Yuuno's a weird case in that regard, tough, or maybe defensive magic doesn't require the same power as bombardment magic? I mean Yuuno have top tier magical defenses (doesn't mean crap to an EC driver but in any Pre-FORCE setting he was a master at this). Probably it was because RH identified Yuuno as someone not fitted to use her full capabilities as she's a device who excels at bombardment magic while Yuuno have a much more defensive/passive style and arguably zero bombardment spells in his arsenal.

Now that Tsuzuki declared there will be casualties on both sides before the end of the season i fear they want to pull off a "Came Back for the Death" on Yuuno xDU
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Old 2013-03-16, 15:49   Link #7694
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Nanoha's shields and binds are second only to Yuuno though, so even the "he wasn't have been able to handle Raising Heart because their specialties don't match" is wonky. Plus, we've never heard of that happening anywhere in Nanoha. AI's rejecting users though is mentioned in the booklets, so that is most likely what happened.

And bringing back Yuuno just to kill him... unlikely. He would have featured by now if that was the case. My money's on the new characters. Tsuzuki's already shown he doesn't have the guts to kill of the Wolkenritter (twice, even), and touching Nanoha or Fate would see him lynched.
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Old 2013-03-16, 15:55   Link #7695
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It's going to be Lily. The parallels between her and Reinforce are just too blatant. She's going to die to make sure she can't be used to create more eclipse infected in the future, and Thoma will most likely get a Lily Zwei unison device based off her.

But yeah, if they were going to kill Yuuno, they would have featured him by now, as a major part of the plot.
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Old 2013-03-16, 15:58   Link #7696
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Deaths ? I don`t know...
Only Lily seems to have that kind of flag. Fifth`s entrance didn`t help either.

Hayate ? *run*
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Old 2013-03-16, 16:11   Link #7697
Akiyoshi
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Both of your arguments regarding Yuuno make sense. Still, the franchise is known for taking pretty biased desicions once in a while regarding certain characters (the Megami SoundStage scandal comes to mind) but i agree that by this point such a thing woul look incredibly farfetched xDU

And yeah, Lily looks a like a suitable candidate (i hope not, it's one of the few new characters i honestly like without bias ToT) to being sent to the frying pan. I'm still hoping Tsuzuki have the balls to kill an old main character,though. This season has shown poor use and developement of those and evidenced Tsuzuki is just reciclyng them to fill gaps in the story. I'm still on the idea is better to let a character die and keep an awesome legacy than to recycle it endlessly until it gets left completely empty and dried.

Let's hope Yuuno survive this season xD
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Old 2013-03-16, 16:11   Link #7698
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Yeah if anyone thinks 'on both sides' means people like Nanoha and Fate, they're going to be very disappointed.
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Old 2013-03-16, 16:22   Link #7699
LostSome
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Now that I think about it, what Hayate said to Signum when she came out of her coma was rather ominous.

BTW : What are those two sides ? I see three right now, plus Thoma in the middle.
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Old 2013-03-16, 16:24   Link #7700
Akiyoshi
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Maybe Tsuzuki is counting all bad guy parties on the same "side" xD?
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