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Old 2011-03-09, 14:45   Link #1021
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Yeah, but that's not a good thing. Fans have a bad habit of ignoring what they don't like or claim that a fandom preference is 'better.'

If Curren is the official spelling, then that means everyone should spell it that way. If they don't, they're just flat out wrong.
Yep. It's like trying to claim canon discontinuity on Signum's beating at the hands of Cypha xDDD(i've already tried xDU).

Page claimed for good old Signum(and yes, i like to claim pages for her xD).
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Old 2011-03-09, 15:52   Link #1022
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Sure, I'm guilty of some fandom discontinuity myself (Alien 3, Love Never Dies), but I do know that it's silly on my part and it doesn't change that those things happened.
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Old 2011-03-09, 15:57   Link #1023
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:3 different director, who committed the discontinuity?

Haha sorry, I'm with you on Alien 3
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Old 2011-03-09, 16:20   Link #1024
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Same here for Alien 3. That poor little girl. ;_;
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Old 2011-03-09, 17:59   Link #1025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Yeah, but that's not a good thing. Fans have a bad habit of ignoring what they don't like or claim that a fandom preference is 'better.'

If Curren is the official spelling, then that means everyone should spell it that way. If they don't, they're just flat out wrong.
Raising Heart, Thoma, Midget, Stern the Destructor, Levi the Slasher, "Load" Dearche...and now Curren? GAH! *still nauseous at the idea of sparkling Hucks*

And if we must follow the vehicular themes, wouldn't it mean that we're gonna have to start calling Yuuno "Euno"?
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Old 2011-03-09, 18:07   Link #1026
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It's Thoma, actually.

As for Yuuno, though, official sources do say otherwise: http://www.nanoha.com/archive3/character/yuuno.html

Anyways, I suppose using fan prefered names is okay so long as the person admits that they're incorrect.
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Old 2011-03-09, 18:32   Link #1027
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I hope FORCE didn't get enoug "real robot" like to not show a combined attack, it will be all kinds of awesome to see a Main cast powered Starlight Breaker defeating a Big Bad xD

Nanoha: "The light of everyone's hopes and wishes will bring the miracle that will change destiny ....receive those feelings! DIVINE STARLIGHT BREAKEEEEEER!!!!!"
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Old 2011-03-09, 18:49   Link #1028
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Combo attacks are hardly super robot exclusive. Observe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULD3rQ3wO7c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JZHbm3IIPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8XKN-onmrc

There are real robots perfectly capable of destroying the universe like any super.

Nanoha was always 'real robot' anyways. The magic girls aren't unique, they're standardized military personel.
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Old 2011-03-09, 19:09   Link #1029
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Nanoha was always 'real robot' anyways. The magic girls aren't unique, they're standardized military personel.
Except for instances like Super Prototypes and unique models like the Book of Darkness or the Nakajima Sisters, or Sankt Kaiser Vivio. In fact most lost logias count as super weapons. Even the more realistic Huckebein are insainely overpowered xDU.

also i was talking more about an "All your powers combined" kind of attack, everyone's power merged into a single ultimate move.
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Old 2011-03-09, 19:15   Link #1030
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You can have super weapons in real robot contexts too. The basic difference between Real and Super robots is that in real robot shows, the robots are standardized military hardware.
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Old 2011-03-09, 19:21   Link #1031
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Remember this: the show that made "real robot" popular, Mobile Suit Gundam, had more Super Robot tropes in it than most modern real robot shows.
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Old 2011-03-09, 19:29   Link #1032
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I know, but the defining difference with Gundam was how the robots were treated. They were just pieces of military hardware like any tank. Whereas Super Robots are treated as, well, Super Heroes rather than soldiers.

From an Earthly perspective, sure, Nanoha mages would be seen as more 'super robot'ish, but to Mid Childa, mages are an everyday thing.
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Old 2011-03-09, 19:39   Link #1033
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You can have super weapons in real robot contexts too. The basic difference between Real and Super robots is that in real robot shows, the robots are standardized military hardware.
I thinked the main difference is that Real robot actually try to explain how the mecha works, having limited supplies, interchangeable parts and the like. while super Robot just make a brief explanation(with some sort of mistical/spiritual connection) stablishing that the will of the pilot also have something to do with the robot's efficiency and just go with it.

SRW is interesting because it mixes the two concepts with real robots(Gespenst and the lion series, for example), Ace models(Weissritter) and just plain evident Super Robots(Soulgain, The Choukijin), with a few that mix aspects from both concepts(Alt Eisen, seriously).

S1 and A's feel more like Super while StrikerS put the orientation more to Real Robots and FORCE is apparenbtly trying to cimient what StrikerS has started, it's still soon to state for sure if super robot tropes will return but for now we have runnin out ammo, flawed prototypes, aces slaughtered and "magic" stopped being a matter or will and guts to become simple "fuel".
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Old 2011-03-09, 19:50   Link #1034
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Not necessarily. While real robot shows do tend to be more hard sci-fi and supers more soft sci-fi, supers do explain things, like with Photon Energy or Getter Rays. Likewise, reals can be just as vauge about how stuff works.

In OG, at least, super robots like the Grungust and the SRX aren't true supers since they're still factory produced. They're just called super robots in series. Stuff like Ryukouoh (magical chinese animal mecha) and Compatible Kaiser (extradimensional, beefed up in grandpa's basement) are more true super robots.

S1 and A's are definitely more like traditional 'super' magic girl animes with the focus being on a few individuals. Then StrikerS made things be more formal and procedural, with focus on working within a system. That's certainly more like a 'real' magic girl.

Anyways, the point is that even if Nanoha has become more 'real', it doesn't mean it can't still utilize the 'super' elements from the first two seasons.

Though perhaps the true shift is the 'hardening' of the sci-fi elements.
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Old 2011-03-09, 20:00   Link #1035
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I'd say you're very wrong about the girls not being unique, Raiser. If it takes personally being trained by Nanoha and Fate to learn their moves, they're arguably in a class of their own. And Hayate, well, nothing she does is really 'real'.

That isn't to say Real Robots can't have ridiculous weapons to them too, though. I've been playing J lately, and the Layzner's strongest attack is to glow really bright and ram into the enemy at top speed. You also got the Justice and Freedom Gundams, which are pretty self-explanatory.

Also, Getter Rays are not well-defined at all. That's their point.
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Old 2011-03-09, 20:07   Link #1036
Akiyoshi
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That isn't to say Real Robots can't have ridiculous weapons to them too, though. I've been playing J lately, and the Layzner's strongest attack is to glow really bright and ram into the enemy at top speed. You also got the Justice and Freedom Gundams, which are pretty self-explanatory.
Also don't forget Gundam WING, on the first half of the series all five gundams were ridiculously powerfull to the point that they apparently had the power to make regular mecha blow up just by appearing in front of them xDU.

Yeah, it's not impossible to bring super robot tropes back in a more realistic setting but while in StrikerS they were the famous aces with the collective power to obliterate an army(i'm not making this up the manga states that xDU), here in FORCE they get reduced to a bunch of generic soldiers slected to test flawed equipement xDU.
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Old 2011-03-09, 20:09   Link #1037
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I meant 'unique' in the sense that they weren't the only one who had magic powers. We thought they were at first, but then we learn there's a whole intergalactic society where most common folk can use magic.

Within the context of that society, the Aces certainly are special, but their base abilities are common. Ie., the Gundam being a robot isn't special because there are plenty of robots around. The Gundam being more powerful than all those other robots (until the Gelgoog shows up) does make it stand out, though.
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Old 2011-03-10, 02:26   Link #1038
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Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not much of a mecha expert, but aren't the various super robot universes also filled with many robots, and the only thing that makes the super robot 'super' is that it has unique capabilities that set it far apart from the usual?
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Old 2011-03-10, 03:13   Link #1039
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Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not much of a mecha expert, but aren't the various super robot universes also filled with many robots, and the only thing that makes the super robot 'super' is that it has unique capabilities that set it far apart from the usual?
It is true that in mecha shows, the protagonist's (or more) mecha is unique from the mooks and the common robot. However, not all mecha are Super.

In a universe such as Gundam, the Real Robot aspect kicks in. Gundam is a Real Robot, as its superiority / power is based on technology; its weapon is battleship-class firepower, giving the pilot heavy firepower on a small, compact scale, and its beam saber was vastly superior to any other melee weapon at the time. Later on, the enemy's technology development caught up to the RX-78's level, so battles became a contest of pilot skill. Anyone can hop in; it's how good they are that makes the difference.

In contrast, a Super Robot's power comes partially technology, but also from the pilot's own will. An example would be Gurren Lagann, whose power level increased from hotblood and rage. No matter how far technology develops, a Super Robot's strength can and will grow beyond next-gen stuff by sheer willpower from its pilot. In other words, a unique pilot for a unique robot.

TL;DR : Real robots use tech. Super robots thrive on HOTBLOOD.

Though, it can hit a point where real and super mesh together into a single indistinguishable setting, kinda like tech and magic. The Nanoha series seems to such a case--though it leans heavily on the super side later on in the series--a combination of high tech and Befriending that instills a fear of pink lasers in everyone. The writer loves SRW, after all. An example of Real is the cartridge system. In A's, we start off already knowing that Nanoha and Fate are crazy powerful... and they get their butts whipped by the Wolkenritter. Upon acquiring a piece of uncommon but not uniquely rare upgrade, they gain equal footing.

Cut to StrikerS and wtf they're so powerful how did this happen?! Hard work and willpower. Now the Aces are so powerful that gathering them all together in one spot threatens the time-space continuum and necessitates limiters for everyone.
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Last edited by Tempy; 2011-03-10 at 03:27. Reason: What time is it? 3:30am? Brain is fried.
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Old 2011-03-10, 03:55   Link #1040
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Nitpick:

Not all mecha with willpower-derived performance are Supers though. The Lambda Driver in FMP is a most blatant example, yet no one labels the Arbalest or the Laevatein as "Super". And Dai-Guard is a mecha as down-to-earth as it gets (duct tape man, duct tape), and yet it's considered a "Super Robot" despite the fact that it'll logically lose to just about a whole gamut of reals in a technology and power contest. It all comes down to the treatment of the mecha in-universe really, though even that tend to blur the line between the two.
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