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Old 2011-03-28, 08:14   Link #1461
Bananoha
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Hm, I wonder if these are previews for what's in Nyantype, or if those are just some images she drew for her blog (should I save them or not =/)
First image is apparently reverse side of the upcoming Nyantype issue where you see Nanoha and Fate in pretty dresses.

Second one is Gamers' tokuten for Nyantype. Slim poster pin-up. Sankyuu, aers. ヾ(^∇^)

I'd save the top one 'cause it's clean, even if it's small.
It worries me seeing Nanoha's Fortress bits in that second picture....
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Old 2011-03-28, 08:14   Link #1462
Tiresias
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
It's the simplest and easiest way to do it. If Nanoha and co did pull out some new weapon or whatever to turn the tide, it would drag this particular arc out even more, and would warrent even more cries of deus ex machina.
Consider this: almost every plan (if you could call it that) our heroes had had failed.
  • Have Signum rescue the trio. Result: Impalement (and whatever happened to the fiery midget).
  • Take on the enemy ship. Result: Wolfram cannon fire ineffective.
  • Infiltrate (you can't use the word infiltrate on something so loud and blatant) Board the enemy ship with just three personnel even though there's more than three of the enemy inside their home turf. Result: Divide Zero "Eclipse", which is probably for the best since the boarding team were outnumbered anyway, what with Fortis plus Karen also on board and the ship self-repairing, preventing reinforcement on Section 6's side.
  • Have Nanoha chase after Touma, despite that they've yet to prove any ability to win against a Reacted one-on-one, and while leaving her back exposed to DeVille whom she knew was behind her. Result: Near-deaths for the Ace captain twice, one from DeVille and one from Touma (she'd already be dead if Fate and Subaru hadn't been fast enough, and mind you those wasn't pre-planned) and most of her new toys turned into junk.
  • Heimdall. Result: Impalement v2.0 and deadly paper cuts for the Worfenritters and Erio.

In the end, they tried every Plan B available and blew it; having Isis joining the fight was never part of their plan. There's nothing salvageable yet, and the situation with Touma is still uncertain. They couldn't even at least make it a bitter victory for the Hucks. Only by the graces of a very optimistic person (or by blatant nepotism) would they be able to participate in the next attempt against the Hucks - at best, one of them might be joining the next Task Force but only as an advisory role (and probably an ignored one due to this screw-up).

Also, remember how the TSAB blamed Tiida Lanster and tarnished his name for his defeat and death.
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Old 2011-03-28, 09:00   Link #1463
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Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
"Record" is the official word AFAIK.
Hmm. I wonder how the fans would have reacted if Tsuzuki had decided to go ahead with a proper all-out War Chronicle rather than this anti-magic stuff. For all its flaws I liked TSAB Acturus War's depiction.
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Old 2011-03-28, 09:03   Link #1464
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Rough guess based on the Force/Vivid divide, half of the vocal fanbase would have liked it, half would have loathed it.
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Old 2011-03-28, 10:33   Link #1465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bananoha View Post
First image is apparently reverse side of the upcoming Nyantype issue where you see Nanoha and Fate in pretty dresses.

Second one is Gamers' tokuten for Nyantype. Slim poster pin-up. Sankyuu, aers. ヾ(^∇^)

I'd save the top one 'cause it's clean, even if it's small.
It worries me seeing Nanoha's Fortress bits in that second picture....
Thanks

That Nanoha and Fate image doesn't say "Married at last!" does it? ^^" I know Danbooru's throwing a fuss about tagging it as yuri

@Tiresias: Is the concept of Nanoha and co not winning that shocking? We all know that you can't thwart stage one.

I have no problem with them retreating because in all likelihood, Curren's news is plot related. If they just left cuz they didn't feel like fighting anymore, or it got too boring for them, or something like that then I'd see it as Tsuzuki pulling something out of his ass to end the current battle without the heroes being completely wiped out. Surely Tsuzuki had things planned out this far and wasn't writing by the seat of his pants.
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Old 2011-03-28, 11:00   Link #1466
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Errr wait, the odds weren't in favor of the Hucks 'till Curren (swear to god her name is weird) arrived. Also the battle was something they didn't pursue, they were reacting to the TSAB/Section Six attack IIRC.

Also, cocky bastards being cocky bastards (The kid is going to come with us so it doesn't matter~) is not being out of character.
Again, if he's going to come with you anyway, why wait? As it stands, you instead leave him with a Bureau ship right there, two people still able to fight, and Touma on autopilot. What if they beat him (as they seem to do about two minutes after the Hucks' leave) and capture him? If they show contempt for the Bureau and distrust it, they probably assume unpleasant things would happen to them if they were apprehended, so...

And I'd say it was about even until she showed up, and then the heroes were basically done. Nanoha and Fate were just evenly matching their respective opponents, and probably would have gone down fairly easily. Hey, even if they don't wanna fight, Curren could have just taken Hayate hostage and told them to back off or else.

I'm fine with villains knowing they're not invincible, but...they kinda were in that situation.
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Old 2011-03-28, 11:05   Link #1467
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Clearly, they had more important things to do. You keep asking why they would leave when they had the advantage, and there's your answer.

Curren said she had a look at Thoma's situation, so surely she noticed the particular people that were after him did care for him so would be unlikely to mistreat him.
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Old 2011-03-28, 11:15   Link #1468
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I could see her identifying Eclipse infectees, but other people? Nope. I don't really know why you're so willing to excuse this series that you'll make stuff up.

If this news isn't something that had to be done right that minute (and odds are it really isn't, given how easily a Huckebein can dispatch people), then I'm calling bullshit.
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Old 2011-03-28, 11:19   Link #1469
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
@Tiresias: Is the concept of Nanoha and co not winning that shocking? We all know that you can't thwart stage one.
True, but most of the time the heroes managed some success, only to lose of the main goal; maybe they could have managed to do at least do some decent damage, or they managed to at least keep track of the enemy, etc etc etc . . . anything to make the situation somewhat salvageable. I don't see any success - the fate of Touma is yet to be decided.

If this is really going to be a war story (which I'm still doubting) there will be repercussions for this failure - even a reasonable superior will at the very least tell them to stand down and *ahem* wait for further instructions since there's so many things to be rethought and reparations and refitting to be done. Unless they'll play the nepotism card and have Fate make some 'family calls'

Right now, they're an embarrassment. I mean, what's next? The Eclipse can be defeated by a Mac Virus? "Was the lowest difficulty level to hard for you? Need a super easy mode?"

We shall see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarpObscura View Post
Hmm. I wonder how the fans would have reacted if Tsuzuki had decided to go ahead with a proper all-out War Chronicle rather than this anti-magic stuff. For all its flaws I liked TSAB Acturus War's depiction.
I'd prefer if they add a bit of fantasy - for all it's claim as a magitech story, the series seemed to be leaning heavily towards the technology side these days.
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Old 2011-03-28, 11:33   Link #1470
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I could see her identifying Eclipse infectees, but other people? Nope. I don't really know why you're so willing to excuse this series that you'll make stuff up.
I meant she'd look at the battle with Thoma and see that Nanoha was trying to talk him down as opposed to just blasting him with no remorse like a 'heartless Bureau member' might be prone to do. It's not much of a leap that seeing that might make her think "It might be all right to leave him with these people for now."
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Old 2011-03-28, 12:03   Link #1471
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Karen: I'm pregnant!
Veyron: *runs like hell*
xDDDDDD!!, ok this made my day xD!

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But I'd agree on one thing: having the heroes be spared from trouble only because they're not worth wasting time on is embarrassing. Very common in shounen fighting/adventure stories, but nevertheless embarrassing. It's like having Earth being saved because the aliens turned out to be allergic to water.
That's the word i've searching for 9 months ....EMBARRASING! Thank you *brofist*.

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It worries me seeing Nanoha's Fortress bits in that second picture....
Nanoha: Repressing disturbing memory in 5 ..4 .3 ..2 ..1 ..

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Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Also, remember how the TSAB blamed Tiida Lanster and tarnished his name for his defeat and death.
And that's why i called Signum "the new Tilda Lanster" on the past thread xD. But now this can be spreaded among the entire Section Six, or the Yagami family at least xDU.
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Old 2011-03-28, 12:15   Link #1472
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Originally Posted by WarpObscura View Post
Hmm. I wonder how the fans would have reacted if Tsuzuki had decided to go ahead with a proper all-out War Chronicle rather than this anti-magic stuff. For all its flaws I liked TSAB Acturus War's depiction.
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Rough guess based on the Force/Vivid divide, half of the vocal fanbase would have liked it, half would have loathed it.
...and both would happily bitch about it on the forums.
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Old 2011-03-28, 12:45   Link #1473
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You mean at the moment she showed up, when Nanoha was fighting Touma and not attacking him? What's the point of having all the members dislike the Bureau if the leader can just overrule them like that?

Oh, and I think RadiantBeam was talking about say, the first battle of As. You know, a fight the heroes actually, believably escaped from with their own skill. Not an unfair comparison, considering Force desperately wants to be As point 2.

(Tropes are also not good.)
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Old 2011-03-28, 13:22   Link #1474
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Or she's smart enough not to generalize every member of a group? We don't know how long Curren was around for either. We do know that she did check on that situation (she says as much), and based on all factors of the current situation she made the decision as leader to order the retreat.

So what if the heroes didn't get away with their lives because of some deperate struggle? It's not like things always have to work out that way. Sometimes they survive simply because their opponent decided to spare them because it wasn't worth their time.
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Old 2011-03-28, 13:35   Link #1475
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And sometimes they survive because the writer lacks imagination. Hell, the fact that Curren was able to get that good a grasp on the situation without being seen indicates getting Touma should have been ludicrously easy. But the plot required he go with the Bureau, so he will. That's all.

(That many styles of magic, and you can't come up with one that will hurt these guys? Come on.)
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Old 2011-03-28, 14:02   Link #1476
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And sometimes they survive because the writer lacks imagination. Hell, the fact that Curren was able to get that good a grasp on the situation without being seen indicates getting Touma should have been ludicrously easy.
Jump to conclusions any harder and you'll be breaking the roof. 'Being able to observe the situation' and 'getting Touma' are two vastly different things. You keep ignoring a ton of factors involved in getting Touma. Let's not forget, for example, that Touma will be trying to kill the Hucks as much as he's been trying to kill Nanoha.
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Old 2011-03-28, 14:07   Link #1477
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And again, the Hucks are more powerful in this situation than the Bureau forces. If Touma could do that MAP attack again, he could have. Wasn't the whole point of this to keep him from going on a rampage and killing people, anyway?

Besides, Raiser's really doing the same thing, in the opposite direction.
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Old 2011-03-28, 14:37   Link #1478
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And again, the Hucks are more powerful in this situation than the Bureau forces. If Touma could do that MAP attack again, he could have. Wasn't the whole point of this to keep him from going on a rampage and killing people, anyway?
No, the whole point of this was that Fortis was a hypocrite and didn't want to let Touma kill himself. Fortis wanted to retrieve Touma before he killed himself. Now Curren comes in and basically said 'calm down, he won't kill himself. He'll come to us later so lets just retreat like we were planning to do in the first place. I have important news to share.'
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Old 2011-03-28, 14:38   Link #1479
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Only my way has more support. I'm basing stuff on what actually happened, where as you're basing stuff on what you think should have happened. What happened, happened, so in light of that the question is why? The Huckebein left without going after Thoma or finishing Section 6 off, so there must be a reason for that.

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No, the whole point of this was that Fortis was a hypocrite and didn't want to let Touma kill himself.
Well, of all the things to be hypocritical about, at least he chose the one thing that results in them being seen in a better light.
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Old 2011-03-28, 14:44   Link #1480
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Unless something actually happened, it didn't. I've seen you use pretty blatant hearsay before.

Weren't you one of the guys saying that the Bureau were potentially evil here? What's stopping someone else from just confiscating Touma and doing whatever they want with him? The Hucks know it's a big organization at least.

And yeah, I kinda DO wish this serious story intended for adults was better written than the one based around small children. But I guess I can't have everything I want, huh?
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