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Old 2013-12-21, 08:14   Link #1
xl_Legit_lx
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[PC] Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft (CCG)

Does anyone play this card game? It's in closed beta right now but apparently it's going open beta around January 7th (or a bit after).

You can apply for the closed beta using your Battle.net account though, and they have been accepting more and more people in preparation for the game.

Here's a (long) video about Hearthstone if you're interested in it's roots and other things:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7DAacEZ7zs
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Old 2013-12-21, 09:46   Link #2
Mistwrath
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Played it for 3 days and got bored of it. There is no real strategy involved and too much randomness, I rather head back to play Magic the gathering.
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Old 2013-12-21, 09:59   Link #3
Last Sinner
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Played closed beta for a few weeks then uninstalled. There's too many cards that all classes need to use and it's heavily geared at pouring money into it big time to be competitive on ranked. Aka it's just like card games in general. A huge money sink. One I have no interest in enabling.
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Old 2013-12-21, 22:32   Link #4
ArchmageXin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
Played closed beta for a few weeks then uninstalled. There's too many cards that all classes need to use and it's heavily geared at pouring money into it big time to be competitive on ranked. Aka it's just like card games in general. A huge money sink. One I have no interest in enabling.
I think is better than a lot of CCGs.

There are a lot of stuff Blizzard didn't do compared to Asian CCGs, such as

1) Basic keycards can be obtained just by playing the game. Just by leveling ur hero, u can have a semi-decent deck 20/30 cards already.

2) There are no "inferior version" of the regular cards. I.E a card called Swordman Bob cost 2 to cast and has 2 atk/2 def, there wouldn't a rarer version of "swordman bob" that cost 2 to play and 3/2 to make.

3) "Legendary" don't auto end games. Yes, a lot of "super cards" can be nasty, but then again, you can build your deck with creature remove and it will be all gravy.

It is pretty good, it might not be Magic the Gathering but for a IPAD game is fantastic, especially compared to what is on the market right now.
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Old 2013-12-22, 02:31   Link #5
xl_Legit_lx
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Not sure if I agree that there's no strategy involved, and inherently, there is luck or *randomness* based on all card games. Never played MTG so I can't comment on that, but I have not spent any money on the game and I have had no problem unlocking cards.
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Old 2013-12-22, 06:36   Link #6
Wigwams
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I play the game, right now im just doing my dailies. Luck is certainly part of the game, same with superior decks, but that doesnt mean that skill is absent. all 3 are needed to consistently win, especially when you see people play in arena being able to reach 12 wins, luck cant do all that.
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Old 2013-12-22, 06:51   Link #7
Mr Hat and Clogs
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I have it, and enjoy it. It's possible to win with the basic decks, but yeah there are certain cards that do seem required at times. But blizzard is pretty heavy with the nerf bat on OP cards, case in point the Hunter deck had a... one round kill combo that just go destroyed. It's come up on the forums that people think blizzard is being a little to harsh with their nerfs, rather than letting the community find counter decks. But it's still beta, open beta is something like... may next year? I can't remember.

Im just annoyed that I've had a few rounds where I have my foe to like 2HP and BAM Alex-fucking-straza. Fuuuuuuuuuuu.
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Old 2013-12-22, 07:10   Link #8
Last Sinner
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And therein is my issue...

Blizzard's only reaction to something is to overnerf it.

People used to play Hunters until they removed the rush strategy completely.
People raged about Priests - they made Mind Control a 10 cost but that was it. It affected their late game but not that much.
People raged about Mage stall. They increased the cost of every card with a Freeze effect. Considering Mage's lack of innate draw within their own class (yet Paladin, Priest, Druid and Warlock have it available in so many forms), getting to chain Freeze someone requires luck way more than skill...wasn't like Warlock aggro couldn't easily get past a freeze stall anyway, because it still could.
If a card available to all classes like Argent Commander or Shattered Sun Cleric got overplayed, it got a nerf in some form. Dark Iron Dwarf will be next since that's what everyone switched too after SSC got the nerf.
Rogues control got a nerf. People gradually went back to it.
Warlock aggro remains untouched. Bet that will be nerfed soon since it's the cheap option deck and doesn't involve money being burned.
Heal spam and stall to Fatigue is a more than viable strategy. That hasn't been hit in any form.

Can see a 'nerf this class every X months' strategy to get players to have to stack up multiple class decks, eventually all 9, which will eventually be 11 once DK and Monk get introduced.

I've seen how these tactics Blizzard uses to balance classes have worked in the past. Overreacting is their trademark. Nor am I going to like seeing people who didn't get to participate in the Beta in any form get swamped by other people who have a load of gold from money they spent in Beta and craft their ideal deck on Day 1 and unleash it on brand new players in casual mode. You'd think deck strength would be taken in consideration on casual queues and not just ranked - I can see that putting off people very fast when this imbalance comes to pass.

My other big issue is if your connection drops out for even just a few seconds, you're instantly kicked from a match and lose regardless of the state of the match. Fair enough, I get people would abuse it to avoid losses. However, when the area's network is degraded and not getting upgraded any time soon, leading to consistent dropouts, it really negates progress when you're up 25-5, drop out for 5-10 seconds and cop a loss that many times.

Overall the game is alright. But eventually, you will have to spend to get what you want. Regardless of what you want to run, eventually you will need some Legendaries, which take a damn long time to earn the dust to craft one with or open a ton of packs to fluke one. There are going to be measures taken to force players to spend. It is an inevitable part of CCGs. Yes, it's probably fairer than some of the Asian ones. But when you watch streamers being able to spend hundreds of dollars on packs to run whatever they want, you know that it will never be a level playing field unless you fork out.

And by all means, it is within Blizzard's rights to do so. It is the inevitability of card games. I'm just not interested in going down that path anymore.
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Old 2013-12-22, 09:15   Link #9
Kreceir
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Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Totalbiscuit has in total 28 legendaries with 2 faceless too copy any legendaries he has on the board.
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Old 2013-12-22, 11:45   Link #10
ArchmageXin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
And therein is my issue...

Blizzard's only reaction to something is to overnerf it.

People used to play Hunters until they removed the rush strategy completely.
People raged about Priests - they made Mind Control a 10 cost but that was it. It affected their late game but not that much.
People raged about Mage stall. They increased the cost of every card with a Freeze effect. Considering Mage's lack of innate draw within their own class (yet Paladin, Priest, Druid and Warlock have it available in so many forms), getting to chain Freeze someone requires luck way more than skill...wasn't like Warlock aggro couldn't easily get past a freeze stall anyway, because it still could.
If a card available to all classes like Argent Commander or Shattered Sun Cleric got overplayed, it got a nerf in some form. Dark Iron Dwarf will be next since that's what everyone switched too after SSC got the nerf.
Rogues control got a nerf. People gradually went back to it.
Warlock aggro remains untouched. Bet that will be nerfed soon since it's the cheap option deck and doesn't involve money being burned.
Heal spam and stall to Fatigue is a more than viable strategy. That hasn't been hit in any form.

Can see a 'nerf this class every X months' strategy to get players to have to stack up multiple class decks, eventually all 9, which will eventually be 11 once DK and Monk get introduced.

I've seen how these tactics Blizzard uses to balance classes have worked in the past. Overreacting is their trademark. Nor am I going to like seeing people who didn't get to participate in the Beta in any form get swamped by other people who have a load of gold from money they spent in Beta and craft their ideal deck on Day 1 and unleash it on brand new players in casual mode. You'd think deck strength would be taken in consideration on casual queues and not just ranked - I can see that putting off people very fast when this imbalance comes to pass.

My other big issue is if your connection drops out for even just a few seconds, you're instantly kicked from a match and lose regardless of the state of the match. Fair enough, I get people would abuse it to avoid losses. However, when the area's network is degraded and not getting upgraded any time soon, leading to consistent dropouts, it really negates progress when you're up 25-5, drop out for 5-10 seconds and cop a loss that many times.

Overall the game is alright. But eventually, you will have to spend to get what you want. Regardless of what you want to run, eventually you will need some Legendaries, which take a damn long time to earn the dust to craft one with or open a ton of packs to fluke one. There are going to be measures taken to force players to spend. It is an inevitable part of CCGs. Yes, it's probably fairer than some of the Asian ones. But when you watch streamers being able to spend hundreds of dollars on packs to run whatever they want, you know that it will never be a level playing field unless you fork out.

And by all means, it is within Blizzard's rights to do so. It is the inevitability of card games. I'm just not interested in going down that path anymore.
Oh lol. Personally, anyone complaining about "overnerfing" is silly. Blizzard doesn't nerf just for "fun", they do it when you totally ruin the game. I played plenty of games where the dev don't give a flying fuck if someone found a exploit or way to win on "easy mode", but guess what, the 90% of players who also play the game will just /quit if the matter left unaddressed.

While I can't comment on some of your other builds, but damn Mind Control is a serious pain. I lost so many games where I got the priest down to 5 life or less and got killed before he grabbed my key minion.

And when you complain about streamers spending hundreds of dollars to buy, excuse me, that is same of ALL CCGs. Pro-Gamer MTG players need to spend thousands of dollars on cards alone, at least Blizzard offer you to "recycle" your old cards, plus, by making it digitalized, you don't need 15-or 16 copies of a key card for all your decks.

Also, hearthstone, by generating mana 1 by 1, it eliminate a key problem Magic the Gathering (Or Most CCGs) had. Mana Clump/Mana glut is one of the worse thing possible in MTG, where you watch your enemy wail on you because your draw is not right. So that is one part of CCGs blizzard manage to eliminate.

hearthstone is no where perfect, but it is better than whats on the market, especially you are like me, who lived through 1990s CCG glut.
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Old 2013-12-22, 18:58   Link #11
Wigwams
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Well the good news is that nerfed cards can be DE'd for full cost. I know that you also had to craft a few other cards to combo well with those nerfed cards, but those can be used in other ways i guess...? So making the switch from 1 deck to another isnt that bad.

Also i hope blizz expands the ranking system (start from rank 30), and start the season around 1 week earlier than open beta. My reasoning is to give totally new players 10 levels worth of actually just fighting against fellow new players, since most beta players would be at least at lvl 20.

And i do believe they are working on a reconnect feature.
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Old 2013-12-22, 23:53   Link #12
xl_Legit_lx
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You have some valid points, but a lot of it is just your personal preferences and nitpicking. Nerfing and changing the game occurs a lot, especially in closed betas. That's just the nature of how things work, and there's always going to be an imperfect balance which is why people have current meta games. That's how you release new cards to make older ones relevant, et cetera. It's just how it works. Anyway, for this thread was for those interested, no offense but if you don't like it that's perfectly okay.


Here's a pretty good site for people trying to learn strategies and stuff: http://ihearthu.com
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Old 2013-12-23, 00:04   Link #13
DragoonKain3
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Played paper MtG, paper WoW TCG, and online MtG, and I keep contact with friends I played with competitively there. And from what I hear of those who do have the beta key, it's much more luck oriented than your typical TCG. So from what I hear it's VERY fun to play, but so far they have no intention of playing it competitively.
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Old 2013-12-23, 01:05   Link #14
xl_Legit_lx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Played paper MtG, paper WoW TCG, and online MtG, and I keep contact with friends I played with competitively there. And from what I hear of those who do have the beta key, it's much more luck oriented than your typical TCG. So from what I hear it's VERY fun to play, but so far they have no intention of playing it competitively.
Knowing Blizzard, they will probably fix it up to make it competitive. They had a exhibition tournament at Blizzcon and I'm sure they are taking feed back from the top "ranked" players on how to make the game welcoming to newer players (to card games) and have a decent skill curve. It's always difficult to do both, but not impossible given Blizzard is not new to the realm of competitive play (SC2, WC3, etc)

also nice sig C:
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Old 2013-12-23, 04:29   Link #15
Wigwams
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There are actually a good amount of HS tournaments taking place, small probably, but for a game in beta...?
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Old 2013-12-23, 06:21   Link #16
xl_Legit_lx
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Game got real popular really fast due to twitch.tv which hosts a variety of competitive gaming events, including other card games like MTG..so I'm not surprised.
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Old 2013-12-23, 09:33   Link #17
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xl_Legit_lx View Post
Game got real popular really fast due to twitch.tv which hosts a variety of competitive gaming events, including other card games like MTG..so I'm not surprised.
It got popular because:

1. It's Blizzard, which already has popular games among gamers in general.
2. It's a good game for filling in downtime in between something else.
3. It's free.
4. It doesn't take many system resources to play.
5. It can be pretty fun.

I play it when I want to kill some time, but never seriously. There's just far too much RNG that will screw you over because the game is designed so poorly from a competitive aspect.
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Old 2013-12-23, 10:06   Link #18
4Tran
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While I think that Hearthstone is an okay CCG with a really cool draft mode, it doesn't have all that much strategic depth. Expansions will bring more variety into the play, but nothing is going to alter the heart of the game. My CCG of choice right now is Might & Magic: Duels of Champions because it offers more interesting gameplay. Too bad it doesn't have any draft mode though.

Hearthstone is a game that's strongly focused on board control so it's easy to see why the Hunter One-Turn strategy and the Mage freeze strategy have been hit by the changes. In a game that's about putting creatures on the board to interact with your opponent's creatures, both strategies avoid this phase of the game, and so the game loses a lot of its interaction. If Hearthstone were more mature and there were cards with "Battlecry: All minions become Unfrozen" or if counterspells were available to everyone, then those kinds of decks would be more viable (for Blizzard).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
If a card available to all classes like Argent Commander or Shattered Sun Cleric got overplayed, it got a nerf in some form. Dark Iron Dwarf will be next since that's what everyone switched too after SSC got the nerf.
There really shouldn't be any auto-include cards in any CCG. This is especially the case for a game which is dominated by non-class specific creatures.
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Old 2013-12-23, 10:51   Link #19
xl_Legit_lx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
It got popular because:

1. It's Blizzard, which already has popular games among gamers in general.
2. It's a good game for filling in downtime in between something else.
3. It's free.
4. It doesn't take many system resources to play.
5. It can be pretty fun.

I play it when I want to kill some time, but never seriously. There's just far too much RNG that will screw you over because the game is designed so poorly from a competitive aspect.

Well obviously that too, but a lot of top LoL players were streaming it and that's how a lot of people started getting into it as well. When you stream to 10k - 40k people and they see you playing, that sorta helps. That's why Riot was in the process of making a rule so that pro players could not stream those games (and others) but later got that changed after backlash.
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Old 2013-12-23, 15:23   Link #20
Jazzrat
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I was hoping for this game to hook me in but after 3 days of playing it, it started to drain on me with it's business model. Earning gold to get cards or getting into arena felt too grindy for me but I was never into TCG games in the first place so it quickly felt like a chore.

Granted, the game is very well made and people who doesn't hate TCG style game should give it a shot when they can. The removal of mana/land card made the game less RNG dependant and the quick pacing made it accessible to play on the go.
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